Gonzo
A2OC Donor
And the peperpots are forged!
Which makes them inherently stronger
Of course I knew that when I chose them.....
And the peperpots are forged!
Which makes them inherently stronger
Personally, I saw a 15% improvement. Jigsaw reported 20%+ improvement. I dont see this as "hardly noticeable"...I can see the benefit of light wheels, unsprung weight marginal MPG improvement (but hardly noticieable)
Yes the 15 inch sidewall certainly flexes too much when cornering. Have found a set of Momo corse 17 wheels for a decent price that are only 8.4kg each.
With 15" tyres, I think the handling isn't sharp enough (my winter tyres are also 195's). The adhesion limit is not the matter, it's the deformation of sidewalls.
17's are heavy, indeed. I have 17" Rotor replica's. They feel lighter than the 17" TT 6-spokes that I had previously (I regret I didn't weight them alone).
My car had 16"s (6-spokes) when I bought it. To me, it's the perfect compromise handling/comfort/look.
that extra sidewall gives more protection against potholes than the rubber bands on the 17s!
Personally, I saw a 15% improvement. Jigsaw reported 20%+ improvement. I dont see this as "hardly noticeable"...
With 15" tyres, I think the handling isn't sharp enough (my winter tyres are also 195's). The adhesion limit is not the matter, it's the deformation of sidewalls.
17's are heavy, indeed. I have 17" Rotor replica's. They feel lighter than the 17" TT 6-spokes that I had previously (I regret I didn't weight them alone).
My car had 16"s (6-spokes) when I bought it. To me, it's the perfect compromise handling/comfort/look.
Funnily enough my local tyre fitter was singing the praises of Vredestein recently.
Bret,if you compare winters vs. summers you're comparing apples and pears - but even doing that, I don't see how you're going to see any benefit whatsoever until serious speeds. Everything else is going to be dampers and springs. Besides, I see a different issue here: a Goodyear F1 tyre will have a stiffer sidewall (probably) than a Goodyear Efficient Grip, because it's intended to be a handing, sporty, performance tyre. Simply saying "any 195/55 will have less stiff sidewalls than 195/50" isn't really enough.
Steve,If that is what you achieved then I can't argue with that, I know you tell it as it is.
But if you look at the "science", the saving in weight in total is not huge and the slightly narrower width is also small.
So in theory the difference in weight is not 20% of the car's weight, more like 2%, so scientifcally that saving cannot be 20% due to just the weight alone.
As for the width, there is an even smaller difference in width and so the drag is not affected to any large extent.
I don't doubt your improvement though, of course, but I would imagine that it was due to other factors.
As you say, the sprung / unsprung difference is noticeable as far as handling / suspension reaction, that is for sure.in the bike world un-sprung mass (wheels tyres) is big for performance gains, always quoted as every kg saved un-sprung is worth many more times sprung weight.
The handling will also benefit from less inertia.
I'm bias though as a pepperpot adaptor went from 17's to Pp pots. can see the sense in people saying 16's are a good compromise just don't wright off (with tyres) a 5kg per corner un-sprung weight reduction.
in the bike world un-sprung mass (wheels tyres) is big for performance gains, always quoted as every kg saved un-sprung is worth many more times sprung weight.
The handling will also benefit from less inertia.
I'm bias though as a pepperpot adaptor went from 17's to Pp pots. can see the sense in people saying 16's are a good compromise just don't wright off (with tyres) a 5kg per corner un-sprung weight reduction.
Steve,
The 20% may not be due to weight alone the combined effects, might be like that of a remap because un-sprung weight effects acceleration, handling and breaking the engine's work load is less??
The 20kgs is un-sprung remember may have the effect of 100kgs sprung? ask the smallest grandson to throw you out and note the fuel saving!?
Lee.
Surely it WILL help handling, because a heavier wheel will have more kinetic energy when hitting bumps etc. and so would bounce more?Maybe in the bike world.
In the car world, less un-sprung weight means more comfort, but the handling can not benefit from that. Less un-sprung weight means less control.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes, I think that in general, in the UK we refer to handling as being related to cornering and track grip etc. especially when turning.I'm confused, Steve, but I guess it's because of my Norglish. I thought the handling meaning was about the control of the car.
Yes, I think that in general, in the UK we refer to handling as being related to cornering and track grip etc. especially when turning.
Comfort is another thing altogether and is more related to smooth running over bumps in road use.
Steve B