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Oilman
24-06-2004, 03:38 PM
A word of caution – You get what you pay for!

Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years.

Quote:

Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions. We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!

Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”? Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”. Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.

So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!

The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil, such as PRO S or PRO R. This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!

UNQUOTE:

This article is something that all car owners should read and understand before buying oil and I’ve posted this with Johns permission.

Cheers,
Simon .


Check out my website at
www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
Email: Sales@opieoils.co.uk

Oilman
24-06-2004, 06:26 PM
WHY ARE ESTERS SO GOOD?

They assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction.

They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away).

They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures.

Cheers
Simon


Check out my website at
www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
Email: Sales@opieoils.co.uk

NortonES2
09-07-2004, 10:34 PM
Simon: You certianly have to pay for some products! As an insider, could you say what the basestocks of 505.01 are? The oil is variously described as a semi-synthetic (Millers, Elf) or a full synthetic (Fuchs and others). Do VW say how the oil is to be formulated or is there a target to reach (e.g HTHS value) with discretion as to how to achieve this? [21]

Oilman
10-07-2004, 11:46 AM
Any oil that has been approved by VW/Audi to 505.01 is suitable, they are always 5w-40 in viscosity and should always be Fully Synthetic oils.

In theory, they should perform the same, it's a question of price and personal choice.

Cheers
Simon

Check out my website at
www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
Email: Sales@opieoils.co.uk

NortonES2
11-07-2004, 10:43 AM
Simon: thanks, but what hapened to the semi-synth Fuchs products that were listed on the 505.01 approvals? These are they -
Fuchs Fuchs Motorenoel G052 167 02 SAE 5W-40 50000/50500/50501
Fuchs Labo Syntha High Tech Synthese SAE 5W-40 50000/50500/50501
Fuchs Motorenoel G 052 167 02 SAE 5W-40 50000/50500/50501

plus the fully synthetic Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL-F SAE 5W-40 50000/50500/50501

Any clues re the make-up vis a vis API group classes, or are you avoiding that aspect:)

Oilman
12-07-2004, 12:34 PM
The above listed products are Fuchs products available on the European Market, not the UK.

They are all 5w-40 Fully Syns with the 505.01.

The product here is called Titan Supersyn SL PD 5w-40 Fully Synthetic.

Moi? Avoiding a question, never.

The API is SJ/CF ACEA A3/B3/B4.

Cheers
Simon

Check out my website at
www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
Email: Sales@opieoils.co.uk

NortonES2
14-07-2004, 11:56 AM
Simon: I didn't want to contradict what you said re fully synth, but its only fully synth if you believe that API Group III (which is what I meant by the API groups) is synthetic. Re the hydrocracked mineral oils called "synthetic" Mobil had Castrol taken to the US Better Business bureau hearing re its advertising and lost. Not the argument, just the hearing....... This was not a court of law, SFAIK, therefore not binding.

I don't know what the 505.01 requirements are, as no-one will say, at least on a public discussion board, but Millers in the UK are categoric that VW wanted a semi-synthetic blend. If what they say is correct, I'd assume that they are all blends. Personally I think 505.01 is a mix of Groups III, IV and V.

Oilman
14-07-2004, 03:14 PM
Hmm, I tend to agree with you but I only stock Fully Synth 5w-40 and although there may be some out there, I've not seen a semi one.

Some are marked "synthetic blend" but this doesn't tell you anything however its near impossible to make a good 5w-40 unless it's fully synthetic that's why they are PAO formulations generally.

At the end of the day, fully synthetic is better anyway.

Cheers
Simon

Check out my website at
www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
Email: Sales@opieoils.co.uk