Cambelt Change

[ecoangel]

Hi I'm looking into a cambelt change (it's due in about 5000 miles).

Parts wise there seems to be an ally casting that some garages suggest replacing and others don't. Seems sense to change water pump at the same time mind.

Current bids :

Teeside Audi (no casting) £490 all incl. 4 hrs labour.

Jon Fox Audi (with casting) £615 all incl. 3.6 hrs labour.

Waiting to hear from independants.

Part Numbers:

Zahnriemen:
045 109 119 D (E, L)
Umlenkrolle:
045 109 244 A
Spannrolle:
045 109 243 A (C)
Schwingungsdämpfer:
045 109 479 D

[chb]

I had a quote from IVC in Leeds for a cambelt ic waterpump change and all neccesary tensioners etc. That was £300 plus vat.
Their phone is 0113 2420875 and they are just of J44 of M1.
I havn't used them yes, but pass them a lot and they have a steady stream on Vw and audis on their ramps.

[spw]

I've just had the cambelt changed on my 1.4 petrol and it was £325 total. This included belts, pullies and tensioners + vat. They told me the waterpump didn't need changing as the cars only done 17K miles
This was Swifts in Sheffield, an indipendent Audi/VW/Lotus specilist
www.swiftsperformance.co.uk

By contrast, Gulders of Sheffield, the official Audi stealer quoted £330 for just the belt and fitting.

[hollyrescue]

I had my cam belt changed yesyerday at the main VW agent 'cos Audi was far too expensive. I understand that I paid the standard charge for this job on this engine which was £315 inc. parts and VAT.

The parts (from the invoice):
036109119AG 9101352tooth belt qty1 21.70 +Vat
036109119P 6900859cambelt 1 13.35 +VAT
036109243AF 9401642roller 1 25.50 +VAT
036109243AG 3801738roller 1 27.00 +VAT
N0209022 cablebinder 1 0.16 +VAT

parts total 87.01 +VAT

I also got taken home in a cab free of charge, and picked up by cab free of charge. The car was washed and the carpets seemed cleaner than when they went in so maybe they were vacuumed as well. They also reported on the thickness of the brake pads and shoes.

Compared to my local Mr Audi it represented a saving in excess of £130 (about 30%) and they also did the MOT which Mr Audi wouldn't do, "take it somewhere else" they said.
When you consider that the mechanicals etc are al part of VAG, the difference is quite amazing.
I hope others find this info useful.

[hollyrescue]

Oh, I forgot, the water pump was also checked and found OK (only 25K miles).

[maddy]

hi ecoangel it's robin i have just don maddys cambelt.
IT is advisable to change waterpump/guide pulley/tensioner pulley at the same time.
the waterpump has a plastic impeller on it and they have a habit of breaking up' you can get some with brass impeller.
it took me about 4hrs to do.
auto data give 2.90hrs to remove &install ?
it's not a job for a beginner as u need locking tools for the camshaft/crankshaft/tensioner
hope this is some help to you.
robin

[pc759]

anyone got ideas where you can get the correct camlocking tools to do the job? I can't see that it is that hard to do as long as you put the new belt back in exactly the right place. Ahh but ther is the problem, having said that im going to do it when im due.:confused:
Thanks Paul

[spike]

There is also some info on this subject under Timing Belts - see link
http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4488&highlight=timing+belt
Pictures of the special tools required for the job are also attached - They are also used on other Audi TDi engines and Laser Tools list most of them if your Dealer won't sell you the genuine items

Cheers Spike

[spike]

Cambelt Change
---------------
I replaced the belt, water pump, tensioner pulley and roller over the Christmas holidays. It's a fiddly job as space is limited and there are a few pitfalls for the first-timers (me), particularly if you don't have the proper overhead engine support to hold the engine up when removing the front engine mount.
This is not a step by step guide but may be helpful for anyone who has read the Audi or Autodata manual and is still determined to have a go.
PARTS - Audi sell a timing belt kit which is cheaper than buying individual bits.
The 4 crank pulley bolts (allen head type on my 2001 car) are very tight and easy to chew up. Buy a spare set before starting.
Minimise future repairs by replacing the water pump(only £25 exchange)

People with vagcom can check the injection timing before and after - its comforting to know you got it right.

PREPARATION - remove the drivers side inner wheel arch liner and headlamp to improve access and visibility. Obviously the undertray has to come off as well.
I supported the engine under the sump but when you remove the front engine mount, this unloads the suspension and the body lifts, making it very difficult to unscrew the 3 mounting bolts and re-assemble them without damaging the alloy threads. If you have to do the same, try using 2 lenghts of threaded bar and nuts (M 10 I think) to separate and re-align the front mount.
Once the mount is off and the covers removed the engine can be barred over to the correct position and the locking pins inserted. Note the crankshaft tool has a reference mark which must align with the crank gear mark before the tool is slid over the teeth.
The cambelt tensioner pulley then needs to be locked. Its not really visible but the bracket on the pulley assy sits on a spring loaded plunger. The tip of the plunger has a waisted section - like a valve stem. The locking tool is inserted from the back (bulkhead side) of the engine, through a slot in the timing cover housing and locates round the waisted section of plunger tip. Once this is located the tensioner pulley can be carefully released. If the plunger is not locked off, it will fully extend making it impossible to fit the new tensioner pulley correctly. This happened to me and I ended up having to make a tool to squeeze the plunger back into its housing against the extremely strong spring.
One last tip - the manual suggests loosening the 3 bolts which lock the camshaft pulley to the cam, probably to compensate for tolerances in the belt tooth spacing or lenght. I did not find this necessary
If you have got this far then the rest is plain sailing.
When its all back together, check the crancase breather pipe which fits between the base of the oil filter and a box behind the radiator - this had come off on my car and resulted in a pool of oil under the car when I fired it up - a heart stopping moment.
One of the small turbo boost signal lines also came loose a week later resulting in a big loss of power, another consequence of lowering the engine which strains this particular pipework

Cheers Spike

[robin]

hi spike sounds like you had fun
as you say you diden't loosen the three bolts on the cam if you had it makes it easyier to put cambelt on and when you loosen the tensioner it puts the camshaft timing in the right postion
as you found out it is a very strong spring on the tensioner been there done that got the bage
did you put your car on axle stands then use the jack to rase and lower the engine for the lineing up of engine mounting as it makes it easyier but they are a pain to get out as you say
it is allways best to turn the engine over by hand at least twice and re aline the timing marks up
it sounds like a job well done and you saved youself some money into the bargin nothing venture nothing gained
with the overhead engine support it gets in the way and bang your head as i found out when putting cambealt back on i find it better with axle stands and jack.

cheers

robin

[spike]

Hi Robin
I did not use axle stands but will do so next time. They would certainly stop the body from moving around and give more room under the car to get my trolly jack under the sump. I would also slacken the 3 camshaft pulley bolts as the belt was tricky to get on. The alignment was spot on however when I turned the engine over 2 full turns and checked the locking pins would engage easily.

Cheers Spike

[Aikon]

Booked mine in for Friday at Lion VW/Audi Northampton, he estimates £210 with VAT and he'll check the water pump and add it if necessary.

[Aikon]

Job Done, £210 with VAT, Brake pad warning light cam on a couple of days before so got front discs and pads done too, £381 all in.

[GrayB]

Job Done, £210 with VAT, Brake pad warning light cam on a couple of days before so got front discs and pads done too, £381 all in.
That's amazing value. Tonbridge Audi want £495 to do ours - not including the water pump! Local garage has estimated £325 - in line with some other reports above.

[Aikon]

Done 300 miles today and it still runs!!

[humps]

I forgot about the cambelt completely! My car is 2001 and it has 39k on the clock. I suppose it is time to change the cambelt. Hopefully, it might improve my currently poor mpg as my engineer friend mention a nacked cambelt will also give poorer mpg.

My clutch is also up for a change too, biting point is close to the end of release, so will I be able to save some labour cost if I get both cambelt and clutch done at the same time? It is looking like an expensive 2007... Koni FSDs, bodykit, cambelt, clutch... might have to delay installing those skirts...

[richard-]

How long does it take for a cambelt change to be made?

Aikon, how long did it take them at Lion VW/Audi Northampton?

[Aikon]

I haven't read how much time they booked me for but I dropped it in at 8:30 and the two of them were already working on other jobs, so they can't have started it straight away, they phoned to say it was done at 1:45pm, one of them did the cambelt the other did the brakes.

[robin]

How long does it take for a cambelt change to be made?

Aikon, how long did it take them at Lion VW/Audi Northampton?
its about 4.5 hrs to do cambelt and warter pump with all the other bits and bobs
but the moor you do the faster you get as you get use to all the ways round how to get the engin mount out as it is awkard to do
cheers
robin

[GrayB]

How long does it take for a cambelt change to be made?

Aikon, how long did it take them at Lion VW/Audi Northampton?
My garage next door have charged me 3.75 hours for this, including water pump. Total bill came to £324.

£200 cheaper than Tonbirdge Audi, but nowhere near Aikon's price. How did they do it?

[markbigears]

Why are you guys changing the cambelt at such a low mileage? I thought it was 80k before it needed to be changed?:confused:

[GrayB]

Why are you guys changing the cambelt at such a low mileage? I thought it was 80k before it needed to be changed?:confused:
Early TDI's are 60k. Something that Tonbridge Audi neglected to tell me when the car was serviced at 60k. But when they actually looked it up, there it was...

[spike]

As GrayB indicated, Audi have changed the rules regarding cambelt change periods. There is also a time limit now. See one of my previous posts in the attached thread for the new mileage limits
http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4488&highlight=timing+belt

Cheers Spike

[markbigears]

Only asked because 2 posting on here changed at 17K and 39K. 60K and i could understand, hence my question.

[A2driver]

Can anyone tell me if I'll need the same tools for a petrol 1.4 as a diesel?
I know the petrol is dohc does anyone have a source for the kit and tools or is it a case of buying from the 'stealer'?

[spike]

Hi A2driver
The tools for the petrol engine are completely different. I'd recommend you get a set of workshop manual discs as they show the procedure and tools required.
My local Audi dealer can no longer supply tools (approval via Audi UK is now required) but SEAT don't seem to be so formal and will sell them direct - you need to know the tool part number first though - luckily most are the same as Audi nos. It could also be worth asking a VW dealer if they can supply

LASER tools often do copies so it could also be worth checking their catalogue

Cheers Spike

[Aikon]

I just checked my receipt, they charged as follows;

Cambelt kit £78
Pagid Brake Pad set £37
Labour 3.5 Hours @£45ph £157.50
Brake Disc set 2x £26.00

Plus VAT @ £56.79

£381.29

And the brakes are soooo much better!! Done 2700 miles on them now.

[A2driver]

Thanks spike, I just found this link for the petrol engine -looks much simpler:)
http://www.sealey-tools.co.uk/instructions/VS1246.PDF

[spike]

Hi A2driver
That looks to be a useful web site
I think you also need a tool for removal of the crank pulley.

Cheers Spike

[A2driver]

Right you are spike, I wonder why the crank pulley needs to come off? Perhaps there is no clearance to slip the belt over the pulley in situ -seems like the tensioners are the fairly straight forward eccentric type. I like the tension indicators too which means no fiddly belt tension tool

[GrayB]

I just checked my receipt, they charged as follows;

Cambelt kit £78
Pagid Brake Pad set £37
Labour 3.5 Hours @£45ph £157.50
Brake Disc set 2x £26.00

Plus VAT @ £56.79

£381.29

And the brakes are soooo much better!! Done 2700 miles on them now.
£45 per hour at an Audi dealer??? Is this actually a franchised Audi dealer we are talking about? :o That is less than half what they charge at Tonbridge...

[Aikon]

Clicky (http://www.liongarage.co.uk/)

Not a franchised dealer but VW & Audi specialists, the two guys that run the Northampton one are both ex Audi technicians.

[spike]

Hi A2driver
You definitely need the pulley off to see the timing marks on the small crankshaft pulley and probably to remove the belt cover. The petrol engine looks much simpler to do than the diesel, especially as there is no spring loaded tensioner plunger to worry about. It may still be worth removing the inner wheel arch liner and drivers side heradlamp for better access and vision though.

Cheers Spike

[JLo]

Hello All,

1.4 TDI's cambelt is due for changing. Mileage is 64,000. Please can anyone reccomend an independant service garage. Chester Audi quoted £450.

Cordial Salutations

J Lo

[Skipton01]

Hello All,

1.4 TDI's cambelt is due for changing. Mileage is 64,000. Please can anyone reccomend an independant service garage. Chester Audi quoted £450.

Cordial Salutations

J Lo

Try this lot - still a franchised Audi main dealer, but a lot cheaper:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-CAMBELT-AND-TENSIONER-CHANGE-A2-A3-A4-A6-TT_W0QQitemZ110191139567QQihZ001QQcategoryZ10372QQ tcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You might even find that if you point Chester in this direction, their bill drops to match!


Cheers,

Mike

[MPG Lover]

I had my cambelt changed at Stealth in Warwickshire today for £275 + VAT plus a bit of other work ;). It might be worth the day trip.

Although my A2 has only done 46,000 miles, it is five years old so decided to play safe on this. When Vince and I looked at my old cam belt, it was not particularly worn but it was developing some nice looking splits.