Concert 2

[agentmoulder]

I'm looking into changing the Concert radio/cassette head unit currently installed in my 2001 (Y) A2 1.4 SE. I spoke to an Audi dealer today, and they said that the Concert 2 would be compatible (part # 8Z0057186D priced at £700!). I have been looking around this evening and found a Concert 2 for sale, and the part # is identical other than the D is replaced by FX. Does anybody know if there would be a connection issue with the 8Z0057186FX in the car? Thanks in advance.

[Skipton01]

That radio will be fine, as long as it's from a UK seller - sometimes you get a radio from abroad (USA won't work here) and the frequencies are different.

I've entered the partnumber into my ETOS and it just comes back with 'RADIO' - very helpfull.

By the way, you mean your Chorus radio/cassette don't you?

Cheers,

Mike

[agentmoulder]

Thanks Mike. The one I've seen is from a UK seller.

It's definitely a Concert radio/cassette head unit installed in my car (have the manual in front of me), with the CD changer in the back. Incidentally, any idea if the CD changer still work with the Concert 2 (8Z0057186D or 8Z0057186FX)?

[Skipton01]

Ahhhh, right, you have the cd changer installed - that makes all the difference (well, at least to Audi - it was called the Chorus if no changer was fitted, or the COncert if there was a changer - go figure!).

Yes, it'll work with the new headunit as the plugs are the same, so best of luck with your bidding.

Cheers,

Mike

[agentmoulder]

Once again Mike, thanks for the help. Much appreciated.

[humps]

If you have a 2001 car like mine (and I also have a Concer I unit), then you have to be careful with Concert II. It runs with CAN-BUS and probably will not work unless you rewire CAN-hi/lo from the instrument cluster. Or try the instructions from this article http://www.audiworld.com/tech/elec86.shtml

Or repeat the CAN-BUS part of the Symphony I to Symphony II (or RNS-E) process from here http://www.nsxjr.com/downloads.html

Get an iPod (and ICE-Link) or use an aux adapter in place of the changer later. I don't think the concert II has much advantage apart from looking a whole lot more up-to-date without the cassette! I doubt the 'II' has dual RDS tunner so it will still skip when searching for an alternative frequency. In fact, i think when potential car thieves see the tape deck, they won't bother!

[agentmoulder]

Thanks for the heads up humps. The Audi dealer I went to made no mention of any compatability issues with the Concert II, and certainly didn't say anything about CAN-BUS (or lack of).

I did want to get the Concert II and then use the Dension iPod link with this. That way, I'd have a CD, radio and iPod in the car. I suppose that I could get the Dension Gateway 400 as a solution for using the existing Concert radio/cassette, CD changer and an iPod.

Just in case you're interested, it seems that the difference between the 8Z0057186FX and 8Z0057186D model Concert II units is that the D supports steering wheel controls while the FX does not.

[Skipton01]

Concert2 does indeed run with CAN bus protocols, but it is compatible with non-CAN cars.

The main problem lies in a lack of illumination when you turn the sidelights on - the radio remains dark. There is a way around this though, by soldering a link on the mainboard and jointing it with the instrument pos.

It's no wonder that the dealers didn't know about the CAN issues - they probably don't even know about the existance of CAN or when it was introduced on the A2.

Cheers,

Mike

[humps]

Thanks for the heads up humps. The Audi dealer I went to made no mention of any compatability issues with the Concert II, and certainly didn't say anything about CAN-BUS (or lack of).

I did want to get the Concert II and then use the Dension iPod link with this. That way, I'd have a CD, radio and iPod in the car. I suppose that I could get the Dension Gateway 400 as a solution for using the existing Concert radio/cassette, CD changer and an iPod.

Just in case you're interested, it seems that the difference between the 8Z0057186FX and 8Z0057186D model Concert II units is that the D supports steering wheel controls while the FX does not.

I have similar thoughts as well! I looked at the gateway 400 when it wasn't available on the market yet, now it can be had for £180. Add a new iPod, that's over £400. But then I guess it is still cheaper than Concert 2, ICE Link and new iPod. If you do go with the Concert 2, don't forget to tell us how you get on with the wiring, whichever way you wire it!

[agentmoulder]

Humps - If I do buy the Concert 2 head unit, I'd think I'll have to find an experienced car audio electrician to do the necessary work. I don't have faith in myself to successfully complete the modding of the unit!

I did read in an old post that GrayB successfully used a CAN emulator to get the job done:

http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?p=24775#post24775

Perhaps GrayB can offer some assistance on this one?

[spike]

Would this be suitable
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CAN-BUS-INTERFACE-SIMULATOR-Audi-Concert-Chorus-2_W0QQitemZ320080213438QQihZ011QQcategoryZ38766QQc mdZViewItem

Cheers Spike

[GrayB]

The link above looks very like the one I bought, but not from the same person. I bought from an a guy who was making them himself I think. I then had a German colleague do the translation!

I defintely couldn't get the Concert to work on our car without it - it was more than just the illumination issue refered to above. It wouldn't accept it's security code...

With the emulator we bought it now works fine, except that the illumination doesn't work (so Skipton's advice above may be useful!) and the unit thinks the switched live isn't on, so it turns off after an hour. I have been meaning to address these issues for a while now!

[humps]

The link above looks very like the one I bought, but not from the same person. I bought from an a guy who was making them himself I think. I then had a German colleague do the translation!

I defintely couldn't get the Concert to work on our car without it - it was more than just the illumination issue refered to above. It wouldn't accept it's security code...

With the emulator we bought it now works fine, except that the illumination doesn't work (so Skipton's advice above may be useful!) and the unit thinks the switched live isn't on, so it turns off after an hour. I have been meaning to address these issues for a while now!

Do you think you're going to try the re-wiring to get the CAN hi/lo from the instrument cluster?

[GrayB]

Do you think you're going to try the re-wiring to get the CAN hi/lo from the instrument cluster?
I'm afraid this is probably too technical for me! I am trying to get hold of my local ICE installer man to look at the problem...

[MikeTheSpike]

Does the concert 2 fit a 2002 A2 or do I need a can-bus converter....

[humps]

Does the concert 2 fit a 2002 A2 or do I need a can-bus converter....

For a 2002 car, almost certainly no problem as it should have CAN wired already. What is your existing head unit?

[MikeTheSpike]

None, I just bought the car and there was no radio/cd in it.....

I just purchased a concert II for 175 Euro (1 yr old) (from an A3 driver that puts in a nav instead).

Hope it works, otherwise an after market kit will come instead....

[GrayB]

None, I just bought the car and there was no radio/cd in it.....

I just purchased a concert II for 175 Euro (1 yr old) (from an A3 driver that puts in a nav instead).

Hope it works, otherwise an after market kit will come instead....
Will the A3 unit have the same size/shape face plate???

[erstens]

No. Only the Audi TT unit and maybe A6 unit will fit. ( as I remember)

[MikeTheSpike]

I thought the Concert II fitted any audi type as long as it has the same construction year.....:confused:

[GrayB]

It's just the shape of the face plate that differs from model to model - to fit the styling of each dash... yes, really!

[MikeTheSpike]

Can I order/get a new faceplate from Audi or should I buy some after market solution?

[Skipton01]

Can I order/get a new faceplate from Audi or should I buy some after market solution?
The faceplate is part of the headunit and is non-replaceable. If you fit an aftermarket system, then you can get adapters from Audi to fill in at the sides (all Audi headunits are wider than the standard DIN size).
Cheers,

Mike

[MikeTheSpike]

I made a mistake. The concert II purchased is not coming from an A3 but from an A4. Does that make any difference for the fitting of it for our A2.

The concert II devices are sold over the internet as if they were suitable for A2, A3, A4, A6, A8 and TT.....

[Primea2]

Mine comes from my written off 03 TDI, headunit barely used. Took it out and put in an aftermarket one as soon as I got the car!

[MikeTheSpike]

What is the price for this unit.....do you have a picture of the actual unit....

[erstens]

I made a mistake. The concert II purchased is not coming from an A3 but from an A4. Does that make any difference for the fitting of it for our A2.

The concert II devices are sold over the internet as if they were suitable for A2, A3, A4, A6, A8 and TT.....
Yes sold as fitting shure. The Software fits. But not the shape of the face plate. The A2 needs the smallest one.
Same with the Navis! The RNS-D or E must be custom shape or get one from Lamborghini :D This one fits also!

[MikeTheSpike]

Does somebody know what number can be used in the A2....I see several offered on Ebay with different numbers....

Like: 4B0035186G


Anyone

[Skipton01]

Does somebody know what number can be used in the A2....I see several offered on Ebay with different numbers....

Like: 4B0035186G


Anyone
If it's an A2 part, it'll start with 8Z. You can fit 4B double DIN units, but will have to trim the sides to size - I'm not sute that the same applies to single DIN (Concert) headunits.

Cheers,

Mike

[msorel]

I've bought an original 8Z0 Concert2 voor my 09-2003 A2. CANbus wires were not provided by Audi so I took the instrument cluster of and took the orange/purple (can high) and the orange/brown (can low) wires to extend them to the back of the radio. This riskfull job made no difference.

I soldered the cables, I twisted and wrapped the cables and put them in the appropreate connector. Still no illumination, power off after 1 hour and no DIS info.

My car never had an Audi radio. Should the radio be logged on to the infotainment bus via VAGcom? Is there a need for one of the data outputs or inputs of the concert to be wired and if so whereto?

Think I can't sleep tonight :confused: :confused: :confused:

Any help would be greatly appreciated....

[msorel]

The partnumbers for the Concert 2 with 100% fit are:

Audi A2:
8Z0 057 186

Audi A6 & TT
4B0 057 186

There are some a3 models (early a3) that have the same size frontplate. I don't know if the color is the same.

Late A3, A4, A6 models will never fit as they have a slightly other design. Usually the ones with the metal strip on top.

Goodluck!

[spike]

Hi msorel
All UK cars came with some form of radio unit so this is new ground for us.
Second generation radios were fitted from late 2001 so your car should take the Concert 2 without the need for a separate canbus emulator.
I assume that even though it did not come with a factory fit radio, all the cables and speakers were already fitted - with the possible exception of the can high and low wires to drive the DIS display (I think there is a second set of can wires which communicate with the infotainment module which should be there)
As you suspect, I think the main problem is that you need to code the module using vagcom - the attached link (not English unfortunately) lists some of the codes which are added to give a final code value, depending on the spec (with or without bose or gala etc)
http://de.openobd.org/audi/rns.htm#56_2
Sorry this is not the total answer but hopefully it will point you in the right direction

Cheers Spike

[msorel]

Thanks Spike,

The whole 20 pins iso connector is missing (the blue, yellow, green one). Only 3 wires for power and 8 for speakers (black & brown iso block). The car is filled with kenwood composets so I don't know if the car was originally delivered with standard speakers.

I will post the solution, I will not rest.............

Greetings,
Maurice

[erstens]

All A2 have been prepaired for radio. I think this means, that wires for front speakers are installed allready and the front speakers as well. But nothing more.

[msorel]

Thanks for the input guys. I have found the solution....

The 2 wires (CAN HI & CAN LOW) to the grey plug (pin 5 and 6) on the back of the instrument panel (kombiistrument) were needed so that part was not for nothing. Only this kombiinstrument is not self learning so you have to tell if there is a radio....

VAGCOM modified Address 17 (kombiinstrument), Channel 62 (Daten-BUS Information) to value 00001.

00001 for II generation radio;
00002 for Telephone;
00004 for Navigation;
00008 for Telematik.

And there was light, GALA, auto off when key out of ignition and info on my DIS display.

Now I can sleep again. Many thanks!

Greetings,
Maurice

[GrayB]

Well done Maurice!

I have the same symptoms with my Concert II, even with the CAN emulator in place - I had assumed we had got some connections wrong, as it was not easy working with a translation from the German instructions.

Do you think that I need to do some VAGcom reprogramming? I only ask because my car doesn't have the DIS, so we dont need to tell the 'kombiinstrument' surely?

[msorel]

Hi GrayB,

The CANbus is complex. I was too focussed on the radio. Thanks to Spike and his link to http://de.openobd.org I found out that there was more to it than just the radio.

CANbus is a network in your car. Every seperate unit has to be linked to the network. You can attach the wires but you also have to tell the network there is a new unit (radio, navigation, cruise control etc.). An important part of this network is the kombiistrument. This is not only DIS! If you look at this link (thanks again Spike) http://de.openobd.org/audi/a2_8z.htm, you will see that in this kombiistrument is stored for example what kind of fuel tank there is installed, How many cilynders the engine has, langauge, AND STG 17, Kanal 62 code 00001 Radio second generation (Not just Symphony!).

I am not certain if this is the answer to your problem, but there is a good change some of the equipment (emulator or ConcertII) must be logged on to the network. I hope you solve the problem soon because a fully functional ConcertII is such a beautifull sight in this beautifull car!

Greetings,
Maurice

[spike]

Hi GrayB
Early 2001 cars have some can bus systems but not for the radio, which is why you needed the emulator to get a generation 2 radio to work in your car.
I don't know if the emulator can communicate fully with the appropiate module and control all the features of the concert 2 but Maurice's suggestion is definitely worth a try. You need access to vagcom to check if code 00001 is already programmed in. If not, make a note of what is there, then recode to 00001 and see if this switches on all the missing features. I don't think you can do any harm if it does not work.

Cheers Spike

PS. Maurice, it's great the hear you were successful. Thanks for letting us know.

[humps]

hey Maurice, WELL DONE! This is very good information indeed! BTW, how did you get GALA? Did you connect pin 1 of connect III to somewhere?

Re: Spike,
In the Symphony I to RNS-E guide downloaded from nsxjr.com, it showed the CAN wires for 2000-2001 A6. It seems to work well for RNS-E so I assume it should be good enough for concert 2? But that's also assuming the 2001 A2s have the same hidden CAN wires.

So Gary, it might be that you only need to do the wires (take the grey connector out and move two pins from 12/13 to 5/6), recode with VAG-COM and it might even work without a CAN simulator!

[msorel]

Hi Humps,

I have not encountered the problems with GALA as mentioned in the forum. GALA is fully functional on the 2 wires on the CANbus. Note that this difference in volume is only little. I've tested it by adjusting Gala (1 to 5) while driving approx 100 km/h and there whas a difference in volume noticeable.

The A6 as described in the conversion from Symphony 1 to RNS-E has CANbus. The Symphony 1 has'nt. Therefor the cables are on pin 12 and 13 (I suspect these are the pins for the DIS display). It's only because of the non CANbus Symphony 1! Since GrayB's A2 has no infotainment bus i'm very sceptic if your suggestion would work. But once again, I'm no expert and I am not sure....

Greetings,
Maurice

[MikeTheSpike]

The partnumbers for the Concert 2 with 100% fit are:

Audi A2:
8Z0 057 186

Audi A6 & TT
4B0 057 186

There are some a3 models (early a3) that have the same size frontplate. I don't know if the color is the same.

Late A3, A4, A6 models will never fit as they have a slightly other design. Usually the ones with the metal strip on top.

Goodluck!

So if I understand correctly I can either use the 8Z or the 4B series....

Great cause the 8Z is very seldomly offered....

Greetings

[msorel]

Hi MikeTheSpike,

Not just 4B.... There is a 4B0 035 186 but this won't fit you A2. The only 4B one that will fit your A2 is 4B0 057 186.

Goodluck!

Greetings,
Maurice

[MikeTheSpike]

Thanks Msorel

[GrayB]

News of success with the CAN emulator!

My ICE man visited last night to take a look at the non-functioning control illumination, 1 hour auto power off & gala problems. After looking at the nest of wires in and out of the emulator for 5 minutes, he swore and declared that he knew what the problem was. It seemed we hade only forgotten to connect the CAN output from the emulator to the radio.... Duh! A twisted pair of white and brown wires were terminated and not used. Once they were put into the multiplug, everything worked!

In our defence, we did get a bit confused when we first put the emulator in - I think we lost track of which bundle was coming into the emulator and which was coming out!

Anyway, it all works perfectly now - with no soldering inside the radio! So, if anyone is interested I will find the Ebay name of the guy in Germany I bought the emulator from.

[spike]

Hi GrayB, A great result

Cheers Spike

[shao_khan]

This one any good for anyone?

http://www.tt-forum.co.uk/ttforumbbs/viewtopic.php?t=83152

[erstens]

front does not fit.

[MikeTheSpike]

Bought a Concert II 8Z0 0351 186.....from one of the forum members. Arrived today....will be mounted friday (as car arrives....)

Greetings...

[msorel]

Goodluck installing the unit MikeTheSpike,

If you have any questions, just send me an e-mail!

Greetings,
Maurice

[MikeTheSpike]

Concert II is in the Dash and the Radio and CD are functional...but there is no light (only the tft/lcd screen works but the buttons don't....

I would like to have those alluminated as well and the 1 hour off bug fixed....

It seemed that although I bought an August 2002 A2 it is of the first series....so no can-bus connection. I do not care about the Gala, have it off all the time in my A4 as well. Would like the lights and more than one hour....does the emulater fix this.......

[GrayB]

It seemed that although I bought an August 2002 A2 it is of the first series....so no can-bus connection. I do not care about the Gala, have it off all the time in my A4 as well. Would like the lights and more than one hour....does the emulater fix this.......
Yes, my emulator did fix this. There is the alternative of wiring a mains feed to the circuit board of the radio (see earlier link in this thread) but that is a bit surgical for my liking!

There is one issue that the emulator doesn't fix though. The Concert II expects the aeriel input to be from the later 'Diversity' Aerial - this means the radio reception with the single aerial on the older car is not as good as it should be. Any suggestions any one?

[MikeTheSpike]

I have put the adpater/emulator in and the lights on the buttons are now functional......


But....the radio does not shut down when I turn the ignition off

I do not know Gala works or not and I do not know the one hour bug is still there.....(have to check....)

Any ideas....

[GrayB]

I dont know Mike. I would have said it's either a wire out of place, or your emulator isn't fully functional.

Once we had ours connected properly, everything worked as it should...

[msorel]

Hi GrayB,

The factory fitted radio's from Audi in the A2 have a special antenna system in the trunk (5th door). I don't know if this can be retrofitted (costs worth). Maybe an ordinary aerial amplifier does the job....

Greetings,
Maurice

[GrayB]

We still have this reception problem! In some areas - like in the shadow of the South Downs between Lewes and Brighton on the A27 - there is no reception at all just hiss!

My partner to goes that route often is not happy.... Any suggestions gratefully received? Mike - is retrofitting the diversity antenna an option?

[Skipton01]

We still have this reception problem! In some areas - like in the shadow of the South Downs between Lewes and Brighton on the A27 - there is no reception at all just hiss!

My partner to goes that route often is not happy.... Any suggestions gratefully received? Mike - is retrofitting the diversity antenna an option?
It is an option, but a pricey one - cost wise you're looking at about £400 all in!

You could always try an inline aerial amp first, from a good in car audio shop.

Cheers,

Mike

[GrayB]

Hmm, think we'll try the cheaper options first! Ta, anyway.