Koni FSD + Weitec = ?

[d4v1d sm4rt]

Fitted my long awaited setup last week.
Thanks to a seized captive nut on the osf damper mounting which just spun round and round it took all day to do. (Why do these designers never understand these things just seize and spin?)

Gone, is the harsh smash bang of square edged pot holes which is good.

However...
the high speed feel on motorways is not good now. I can understand why audi opted for the hard springs as the car just sits so much more straighter on them. Now it is easily moved by wind and the soft part of the inintial stroke makes it lean from one side to another when rounding bends in the motorway.

Not the exact outcome i expected, just a trade off really. May revert to the old springs if i get sick of it.

[brads]

Had Koni FSD's and 30/30 Weitec springs fitted to my A2 a couple of weeks ago and the handling is excellent,corners a lot flatter and when braking the front end hardly dips.I went from the standard SE set up.Did you go from the standard SE springs and dampers or the sports springs and dampers?
I found that i can really throw the car around now especially round bumpy
corners.On the motorway the car smooths out the undulations and corners so nice and flat that you tend to drive much quicker than before because the car feels so much more stable.
Did you have four wheel alignment done?
Brads.

[Damo]

Have been following all the threads about how to improve the ride comfort of the A2 without compromising the driveability and noted the very positive feedback about Koni FSD shocks.

Has anyone tried Gas shocks by Monroe or any other quality make other than Koni? The FSD's are quite expensive (around 600 euro here in Ireland and then there's the fitting!) and I am wondering if there are other possibilities or is it really worth the splashing out?

And: how do FSD's work with the supplied A2 springs? Would it be better to get new ones? Alas, I also have 15" alloy wheels and not 17's. Would it necessitate upgrading the wheelsize too?

Any wisdom from fellow owners would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks :)

[humps]

Hi Damo,

I fitted the FSDs mainly for comfort so I didn't get harder/lower springs and am sticking to 16" SE alloys and original springs. As to the springs, it depends on what you want out of the whole setup. As far as I've been informed, the 30/30 weitec is no worse than the OE sports springs in terms of ride comfort but gives you nice lowering. I'm not sure I wanted the sport springs stiffness so am very happy with OE springs. If you upgrade to larger wheel size, the ride also gets harsher.

As for d4v1d sm4rt (David?), I'm not so sure I'm following your description of the side wind and swinging in bends. Even if the weitec has softer initial compression rate, I would have thought the first valve in the FSD can more than compensate these low frequency shocks.

[Damo]

Thanks for that Humps. I had thought that a larger wheel size might help my A2 ride those bigger spine-juddering potholes better - so I am glad to hear that my humble 15"s are okay...

I too am not interested in lowering the suspension, only in the extra comfort and the possibility of minimising the pounding from harshly angled speed bumps in many of Dublin's housing estates.

Looks like I'll be ordering the FSDs then :)

[spike]

Hi Damo
I found one of the cheapest UK suppliers for FSD's was Larkspeed. In spite of the low price and postage costs their service was excellent. If it's viable, it may be worth checking how much they would charge to ship to Dublin.
If you go ahead its worth having the strut top bearings changed at the same time. Parts cost around £20 for the pair. Not sure if its a common problem but the rear bump stops on my car were also past their best so have them checked out as well.
https://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?c=KONIFSDSHOCKS&s=category

Cheers Spike

[keithbrown44]

I fitted the FSD's with the original springs in the summer and then went on a 3000 mile tour of France the next day. I am happy to confirm the improved handling and ride others have detailed with no loss of stability. In my opinion there is little enough suspension stroke already on the A2 without any lowering - especially if have a bit of weight on like 200 bottles of claret for instance.
Anyone know an easy way of lengthening the gearing considerably - I have 16" wheels?

[spike]

Hi keithbrown44, welcome to the A2oc
One option is to find a s/h 90 tdi gearbox. They have taller internal ratios which would reduce engine rpm by about 10% in 5th gear.
http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1445&highlight=final+drive
I think Skipton once looked into replacing the final drive but the cost was around £800.
195/55/16 tyres would also raise the gearing a few %. They should fit without rubbing but I don't know if anyone has tried this so it really needs checking out first.

Cheers Spike

[d4v1d sm4rt]

My apologies to all who have replied to my initial request as i have expected to be e mailed with a thread update, but have not been.

Yes the car was aligned afterwards and strangely did not deviate from its setting from before the shocks and springs were done.

The high speed stability has gone from the car, it was rock solid before and now its just imprecise and wallowy. I would agree with the bumps in the corners scenario, but that is about the only advantage i can see.

I would like to get rid of the weitec springs now as i am definately not happy with them. They are well priced at about £70 a set but the other recommended make ABT wanted about £210 for a set in standard ride height. (why bother?) I may just put the standard ones back on if i cant get any decent alternatives.

Were the front mountings only £20?

I would certainly advise getting the rear spring pan bump stops too as mine were really bad as someone else said.

I am also running 15" rims and find them fine if a bit baloony with 195 60 15s.
The shocks were about £300 odd certainly 600 euros is too steep, get them couriered over to the emarald isle.

[Poor_John]

Thanks for that Humps. I had thought that a larger wheel size might help my A2 ride those bigger spine-juddering potholes better - so I am glad to hear that my humble 15"s are okay...

I too am not interested in lowering the suspension, only in the extra comfort and the possibility of minimising the pounding from harshly angled speed bumps in many of Dublin's housing estates.

Looks like I'll be ordering the FSDs then :)

Hi Damo,

I have a 2001 TDI SE with 16" wheels, standard springs, Koni FSD shocks AND I have driven over Dublin speed bumps. To be honest, the ride over the humps was slightly improved after fitting Konis, but my A2 is still the slowest car crossing the humps.

Your petrol car does not have a heavy diesel engine sitting over the front wheels so your set up should be better, and you have 15" wheels. There is no way I would take a Dublin speed hump at 30mph as it would wreck my suspension. I see lots of cars doing this - usually French ones! Regardless of make of car, there is no substitute for reducing your speed.

Hope this helps and let us know how the Konis turn out,

John.

[Darren C]

I added my name to the long list of Koni FSD and Weitec spring owners on this forum on Monday. For me, the ride in ‘Tank’ around Castle Combe was probably one of the kits best selling points and I was most impressed with the road holding. Okay, I accept that I won’t be driving as hard on public roads as Mike did around the circuit, (well not often at any rate...;)), but I was sold anyway.

On Monday I took the long drive ‘up norf’ to Awesome GTI to have the work carried out. The job took about 4 hours all in and I can totally recommend Awesome to anyone thinking along similar lines. The premises are well decked out, the staff are really friendly and knowledgeable, (all are true car enthusiasts first and foremost), and your pride and joy is well looked after too.

I have to agree with the majority that the FSDs are ‘magical’. Gone is some of the harshness and uncertainty; replaced by a shock that really impresses over bumps and uneven surfaces. The ride really is that good and that smooth. When combined with the Weitec springs, the road holding can only be described as ‘very good’ indeed. With my car riding on 17” rims, I wouldn’t be so bold as to make these claims unless I honestly found this to be true. I am very, very impressed.

I have owned and modified cars before using Bilstein and Eibach setups and whilst I would say that these have been ‘better’ in terms of outright handling; the harshness and back breaking ride were there downfall. The FSD and Weitec combo, whilst not being the ‘sportiest’ of packages, really does offer ‘the best of both worlds’ in real day to day driving.

Darren

[Skipton01]

I was just about to ask you how you got on - now we know!

Glad you liked Awesome and their service. I'm also pleased that your hard earned has been well spent and that you are chuffed with the results.

Cheers,

Mike

[Darren C]

Thanks Mike and thanks for the free ride that sold me in the first place - though thinking further back, I am sure that I had the pleasure of experiencing 'Tank' around that nice twisty stuff near your home shortly after you had the kit fitted and way before Castle Combe!! :confused:

Anyway, I had a 2 and a half hour journey on the way up, (motorway miles), and a 3 and a half hour, (non motorway), return leg to really try out the setup; b****y traffic jams!!

Mind you, I was grateful for the opportunity to test the kit out for myself round some rather nice and testing back roads... ;)

Cheers,

Darren

[martings]

darrenC, what was the total cost, parts labour etc
am seriously thinking of getting awesome to do it, have had enough of the crappy lanes near me
cheers
Glen

I added my name to the long list of Koni FSD and Weitec spring owners on this forum on Monday. For me, the ride in ‘Tank’ around Castle Combe was probably one of the kits best selling points and I was most impressed with the road holding. Okay, I accept that I won’t be driving as hard on public roads as Mike did around the circuit, (well not often at any rate...;)), but I was sold anyway.

On Monday I took the long drive ‘up norf’ to Awesome GTI to have the work carried out. The job took about 4 hours all in and I can totally recommend Awesome to anyone thinking along similar lines. The premises are well decked out, the staff are really friendly and knowledgeable, (all are true car enthusiasts first and foremost), and your pride and joy is well looked after too.

I have to agree with the majority that the FSDs are ‘magical’. Gone is some of the harshness and uncertainty; replaced by a shock that really impresses over bumps and uneven surfaces. The ride really is that good and that smooth. When combined with the Weitec springs, the road holding can only be described as ‘very good’ indeed. With my car riding on 17” rims, I wouldn’t be so bold as to make these claims unless I honestly found this to be true. I am very, very impressed.

I have owned and modified cars before using Bilstein and Eibach setups and whilst I would say that these have been ‘better’ in terms of outright handling; the harshness and back breaking ride were there downfall. The FSD and Weitec combo, whilst not being the ‘sportiest’ of packages, really does offer ‘the best of both worlds’ in real day to day driving.

Darren

[Darren C]

darrenC, what was the total cost, parts labour etc
am seriously thinking of getting awesome to do it, have had enough of the crappy lanes near me
cheers
Glen

Hi Glen,

The all inclusive price was £677.60, which included supply, fitting and four wheel alignment. This was at the old labour rate and additionally included a K&N replacement element; kindly fitted free of charge though. :)
So the supply and fitting of the suspension only, together with four wheel alignment, should be around £645.00 at the new labour rate, I would guess.

Koni FSDs are priced at £344.28

http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/koni/fsd.html

Wetec Springs come in at £90.01

http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/weitec/spring_a.html

Four wheel alignment £79.31

I hope this helps with your decision making somewhat.

Cheers,

Darren

[martings]

thanks darren very helpful
gotta be done
cheers
Glen

[ecoangel]

Would Wietec 30/00 mean rear end up for better load carrying? Any one tried it?

[Skipton01]

Would Wietec 30/00 mean rear end up for better load carrying? Any one tried it?

30/00 actually means that you only get supplies front Weitec springs - the rears remain as per standard (basically whatever is on at the moment).

I have this configuration on Tank, and yes, it is good for load carrying and to be honest, the visual aspect is the same as 30/30 really, no marked change.

Cheers,

Mike

[Schnelletrecker]

Would Wietec 30/00 mean rear end up for better load carrying? Any one tried it?

Hi Lukas,

as usual also this 1.2 TDI issue is more difficult than with the other A2 models.

Despite of their hompepage info, I suppose that Weitec does NOT offer set of 30/00 or 30/30 mm sport springs for the 1.2. So this seems to be an incorrect information, because Weitecs TUV documents in fact only apply to the non-1.2 A2 engine versions.

Moreover no aftermarket dampers are offered for the 1.2 TDI by well established shock makers!

To still improve the riding comfort and also the load carrying abilities of your ECO-A2 effectively, the best (and probably only) way for you would be getting hold of a set of custom made dampers. Those have to be combined with your existing standard springs since we know that the main reason for inharmonic ride quality of all stock A2s is based on rather incapable damping force adjustments (already with the linear standard springs).


For that you could send your original Audi/Sachs dampers (being much too soft) to Koni or Bilstein preferably to provide the outer damper dimensions as well as the stroke. Both companies carry out custom work on their own products for little money.

However because your 1.2 specific damper dimensions are different from the rest of the A2 series, one single set of custom dampers can be quite expensive to make. So – after knowing the final price for a certain amount of 1.2 custom damper sets – you might want to ask other 1.2 owners in Europe to join a group buy.

I believe most knowledgeable 1.2 drivers tend to keep their car for a long time (some forever potentially) – so this would be a nice upgrade for them especially for comfort reasons!

The “stock 20 mm lowered” 1.2 TDI should be set up with dampers provinding enough forces to tackle even very rough road conditions.

That includes a stronger high speed compression damping force (to prevent bottoming of the linear springs especially at our nose-heavy front) as well as improved rebound damping capabilities all around.

If you tell them you want the damping force characteristics more or less equal to Koni FSD or Bilstein B6/B8 sport dampers (offered for all non-1.2 A2s), that should be a good starting information for them. Both B6 and B8 come with identical characteristics concerning damping force.

Regards

P.S. To improve load carrying, there are two options: Higher spring rates without shorter springs (higher rebound damping force highly recommended!) or alternatively increased compression damping force at the rear axle (very uncommon for A2s!). Both options will lead to a less comfortable ride sadly.

[Erling]

I'm up for a set if this is something Lukas also wants to follow through - as long as we can get them for a reasonable price!

[ecoangel]

Thanks Schnelletrecker

I will look into this and ask Koni and Bilstein.

Do you know any details of what the standard springs and shocks are? Audi dealer shows about 8 different A2 springs (all colour coded).

Erling - Will bear you in mind also!

[Schnelletrecker]

Regarding different spring rates for the 1.2 TDI:

For all 1.2 there should only exist one type of rear springs– meaning identical load rating at the rear.

Because there are 1.2 TDIs coming with or without air-con, there will be a minimum of 2 different front spring rates available. Different spring loads are expressed by those varying colour codes (sorry I don't know these 1.2 specific colour codes and their corresponding spring rates :( ).

Just replace all four too softly tuned 1.2 stock dampers (made by Sachs I believe) by custom made shocks and combine them with your existing springs.

Regards

[Damo]

Just wanted to say thanks to all those contributors in the forum who recommended Koni FSD shocks for extra comfort. Having had them fitted a couple of hundred miles ago (at long last got around to getting them put in even tho I bought them last November!) - I consider it to have been well worth it. The ride is considerably gentler and - I would argue - safer, as the higher quality shocks deliver better all round tyre to road contact.

There's no way I intend hitting speed ramps faster. I am just glad that the rather severe judders and the sounds of my wiper bouncing off the windscreen whenever I hit a bad pothole [of which there are many on Irish roads!] are now hugely reduced. It makes the A2 driving experience all the more pleasant.

Thanks for sharing the collective wisdom.
:)

[Poor_John]

I consider it to have been well worth it. The ride is considerably gentler and - I would argue - safer, as the higher quality shocks deliver better all round tyre to road contact.

Hi Damo,

It is good to read that the Konis have worked well for you too. I think everyone on here who has fitted the Koni FSD shocks has not regretted the change. They are expensive, but if you plan to hold onto your car for a while, then I suggest that they are worth it.

John.

[azz]

where to buy from ?? and does it affect insurance

azz

[Skipton01]

Buy your FSDs from here:

http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/koni/fsd.html

As you can see, there's a decent discount to be had and they are a decent company to deal with.

Will it affect insurance? Probably not, but you should check first if you are worried.

Cheers,

Mike

[azz]

thanks mike

is that the price for 4 shockers or the front 2

azz

[Skipton01]

That's for all 4. Not bad eh?

Cheers,

Mike

[Schnelletrecker]

:)

I would like to remind, that in case of any lowering with sport springs (not coilovers) the yellow PUR bump stop rubbers have to be shortened!

So in case of WEITEC 30/30 for instance please cut each of these PUR-rubber 30 mm down using a sharp carpet cutter.

The rear rubbers however – each holding the black damper dust cap – must do without a 30 mm intermediate piece (see pic below). So please glue both remaining pieces (preferably at same outer diameter) together again with superglue.

This shortening of the bump stops is essential to make sufficient suspension travel available in combination with lowering springs. That is very important for the Koni FSD (frequency selective damping) technology as well (when it has to deal with sport springs) because restricted suspension travel will result in altered body motion frequencies.

Please do not shorten these yellow bump stop rubbers beyound 40 mm since the bottom valve of the dampers can be damaged potentially if using standard length dampers such like Koni yellow sport (non shortened), Koni FSD or Bilstein B6.

[Adrian888]

I suspect this may not have been done when Awesome fitted my FSD's and Weitecs.......Has anyone done this and is it as beneficial as suggested?

[Schnelletrecker]

Since this shortening procedure is standard (= a must) for any lowering by sport springs (if using the regular stock bump stops), Awesome most probably will have done this bump stop adoption.

If not, they have to touch up for free. :o

The amount of hard-foam shortening generally equals to the amount of lowering by sport springs...