View Full Version : A2 cf new Ford Fiesta Econetic
Alan_uk
27-07-2008, 01:45 AM
Just saw the BBC video with Ford praising the new Fiesta Econetic.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7522455.stm
The vehicle is stated to deliver 98g/Km CO2 and do 76 mpg. This is better that a standard A2 but not as good as the 1.2 model.
The improvements over the standard Fiesta was put down to 4 factors:
1. reduce drag
2. low resistance tyres
3. 40kg lower weight
4. dashboard signal when to change gear for optimum fuel economy
Well the A2 1.2 had 1 to 3, and may have had point 4 as well, all since 2001, so Ford are catching up at last!
Fiesta mpg: 76
A2 1.2 mpg: 95
Fiesta gCo2/Km: 98
A2 1.2 gCo2/Km: 81
Fiesta weight: est. 960 kg **
A2 1.2: 930 kg (empty)
** standard 5 door = 1102 Kg - 75kg for driver - 30kg for fuel - 40kg less for Econetic
Fiesta drag co-efficient: 3.1
A2 1.2 drag co-efficient: 2.5
Fiesta length/width/height: 3.92m / 1.68m / 1.47m
A2 length/width/height: 3.83m / 1.67m / 1.55m
Fiesta cost: est £12k (£500 more than the standard model)
A2 1.2 cost: est £13k (standard SE model in 2005)
So Ford wins on price - an advantage of the vehicle being of conventional construction and gaining economies of scale.
richard-
27-07-2008, 12:49 PM
Is that diesel it never mentioned in the video
maersk
27-07-2008, 01:52 PM
Yep, sooty.
Poor_John
27-07-2008, 09:27 PM
Now, now Alan_UK. That particular A2 was never sold with a £ symbol at the start of the price and I bet you even Ford will manage to put the steering wheel on the correct side. Seriously, I do take your point. The A2 was ahead of it's time.
John.
Alan_uk
27-07-2008, 09:33 PM
Is that diesel it never mentioned in the video
As maersk says, "yes". It's a 1.6-litre TDCi diesel engine.
See http://motortorque.askaprice.com/news/auto-0807/new-ford-fiesta-econetic-uncovered.asp
That article puts the price at 12,445 for the five-door.
Alan_uk
27-07-2008, 09:36 PM
Now, now Alan_UK. That particular A2 was never sold with a £ symbol at the start of the price and I bet you even Ford will manage to put the steering wheel on the correct side. Seriously, I do take your point. The A2 was ahead of it's time.
John.
True. I thought someone would be smart and spot that ;-)
Perhaps one of our few 1.2 owners can tell us if on the continent the 1.2 was sold for more than the 1.4, and is so by how much - in Euros of course ;-)
I was going to note that the price identified for the 1.2TDI is well-short of the real price.
Still, I'd rather have the A2 than a button-shirt wheeled Fester.
The improvements over the standard Fiesta was put down to 4 factors:
1. reduce drag
2. low resistance tyres
3. 40kg lower weight
4. dashboard signal when to change gear for optimum fuel economy
Well the A2 1.2 had 1 to 3, and may have had point 4 as well, all since 2001, so Ford are catching up at last!
The 1.2 is/was slightly better than 4 in fact, because it changed gear at the optimum point for you!
I have a 2003 Intercar price list if anybody is interested in the price of a 1.2.
RAB
Please find 2003 Intercar (Brunssum Holland) A2 price list. These are tax-free prices.
RAB
Alan_uk
29-07-2008, 09:24 PM
Hi RAB - thanks for that. Using your pdf file I see
A2 1.4 Tdi 1.4 Turbo Diesel 5-speed 5 door 75 bhp Euro 14.096
A2 1.2 Tdi 1.2 Turbo Diesel 5-speed 5 door 61 bhp Euro 15.523
So in 2003 the 1.2 had a Euro 1,427 price premium (£1,127 at todays exchange rates) - twice today's Ford Fiesta premium for their Econetic model over their base model.
For that you did NOT get any of the following:
Luggage cover
Alloy wheels 5,5Jx15
Folding rear seat
Radio preparation, 4 speakers
Height adjustable front seats
Power steering
Floormats front and rear
Wow, just imagine the extra fuel economy by not haveing floormats! ;-)
Hi Alan,
Don't forget to add VAT to the 1.2 price. These prices are VAT-free - I assume that the Fiesta price includes VAT.
Also the Intercar list does contradict itself in a few instances. The entry about 1.2 options is not correct. My 2001 1.2 has A/C, floormats, luggage cover, split/folding rear seats, height adjustable front seats and power steering. In order to sell more cars, I am sure Audi would have added options rather than subtracted them! I presume the absence(?) of floormats would have been to save money rather than weight!
RAB
My 2001 1.2 has A/C, floormats, luggage cover, split/folding rear seats, height adjustable front seats and power steering. In order to sell more cars, I am sure Audi would have added options rather than subtracted them! I presume the absence(?) of floormats would have been to save money rather than weight!
Did you buy yours new RAB? If not, these could have been fitted as the options pack indicates the climate + bits was an option, likewise power steering was an option.
Did you buy yours new RAB? If not, these could have been fitted as the options pack indicates the climate + bits was an option, likewise power steering was an option.
No, S/H last year. The list does seem to contradict itself. On the second page it states that the 1.2 does not have..... (but does not state this for the 1.4), as if they were not even options and then gives prices for them! Might be something to do with keeping it as a 3L/100km. My 1.2 is actually a 3.2L because of the A/C and power steering (mainly) which would have meant that it did not qualify for certain tax advantages in Germany.
I think you're mis-reading it.
It gives the standard specification at the top of page 2, but notes underneath the 1.2TDI does not have the items detailed, i.e. they are still fitted to the 1.4 models.
It then has details in the options list of adding some of these items back, i.e. the option "Climate control air conditioning including 3U4, 3NM and 3GE" seems to get most of the missing stuff back.
Looking at the price list I should have asked my brother-in-law to get me a 1.4TDI Exclusive with a few nice options tax-free when he was in Germany in 2001 rather than buying himself a Z3!
dan_b
30-07-2008, 03:27 PM
Pah - my 1984 Audi 80 Sport had an Econo guage and an optimum gear shift light on it, that was made 24 years ago, hardly ground-breaking stuff.
Audi totally missed a trick by not badge-engineering the A2 if you ask me: if they had also sold it under the Seat, Skoda and VW stables, they could have sold loads more and seen economies of scale to keep the manufacturing costs down. It's what they've done successfully for all the other smaller-model cars in the VAG range.
It then has details in the options list of adding some of these items back, i.e. the option "Climate control air conditioning including 3U4, 3NM and 3GE" seems to get most of the missing stuff back. !
Interestingly (or not), this option costs more than the sum total of the individual options! €1437 against €1208 + €75 + €0 + €111
Looking at the price list I should have asked my brother-in-law to get me a 1.4TDI Exclusive with a few nice options tax-free when he was in Germany in 2001 rather than buying himself a Z3!
It would only have been tax-free until you got back to the UK though!
Interestingly (or not), this option costs more than the sum total of the individual options! €1437 against €1208 + €75 + €0 + €111
Excellent! I wonder how many A2 buyers noticed - perhaps you could buy the Exclusive pack with the 1.2TDI and the other bits on their own.
It would only have been tax-free until you got back to the UK though!
Perhaps, either I could have:
Accept it and pay tax on arrival at the UK, still saving myself a mint or:
Brother-in-law owns it for 12 months but I drive it, then 'buy' it from him after 12 months.
He gets whopping amounts of his cars, fancy a BMW 520dSE with metallic, leather and xenons for £20K brand new? Shame he's back in the UK shortly (well, it's not but you know what I mean)
ULP,
Don't forget that these are LHD prices. I've found a RHD list from the same period and the prices are higher, presumably because of lower production numbers!
RAB
Crikey, same as UK prices (all-but). Nuts to that.
Love the translation for 'Sirrus' cloth - Sinus.
Alan_uk
30-07-2008, 09:50 PM
Interestingly (or not), this option costs more than the sum total of the individual options! €1437 against €1208 + €75 + €0 + €111
It would only have been tax-free until you got back to the UK though!
I don't know about Germany, but in the late 70's I lived in Denmark where the tax on new cars was huge. Can't remember the exact figure but possibly something between 200% and 300%.
So the dealers would sell new cars at almost trade price (maybe even less) and then charge a huge sum (maybe £1,000 or more - just guessing) for a radio to give them their profit. Just try buying the car without a radio - No way José!
I don't know about Germany, but in the late 70's I lived in Denmark where the tax on new cars was huge. Can't remember the exact figure but possibly something between 200% and 300%.
So the dealers would sell new cars at almost trade price (maybe even less) and then charge a huge sum (maybe £1,000 or more - just guessing) for a radio to give them their profit. Just try buying the car without a radio - No way José!
Yes, the Danes reckon that they buy one car and pay for three!
In 2001 I bought my Lupo 3L from Intercar without a radio (but with radio preparation) but the 2003 Lupo price list shows a radio as standard.
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