Definitive HID upgrade

[dan_b]

Ok I think I might be talking myself into a HID upgrade - I've searched the forums and there are multiple threads of successful upgrades, each showing multiple suppliers of HID kits, and also multiple options of replacement (more blue) bulbs, including LED sidelights.

I was just wanting to get in one place the definitive answer of:

1. which HID kit to buy
2. which bluey bulbs to buy (main beam and sidelights)
3. pictures of where people have mounted the ballasts, and how they were affixed
4. confirmation that the HID kits don't cause any problems with the Autocheck functions (or what you need to do to workaround)

I've done a HID install before so reckon I know what to expect, but just want to make sure I do the right purchase. Buy in haste, repent at leisure...

[Skipton01]

The one thing I'll add to this thread is that you should not go for bulbs with a colour temperature any greater than 6000K, as you'll attract unwelcome attention and actually see less than with decent halogens.

Also, if you are expecting to get that shimmery blue-to-white-to-blue effect, forget it - that only comes from projector type headlamps (the ones with a great slig of glass in front of the bulb). Aftermarket HID kits will give you a greater light output than halogen, with 4100K, 5000K and 6000K bulbs and give you a crisp white appearance too.

Here endeth the lesson!

Chhers,

Mike

[spike]

Hi dan
I seem to think H3 main beam HID's are a bit scarce compared to the more common H7 dip beam kits. This is one company I found who does both. If the price does not put you off, you can actually fit the high and low beam kits together. Apparently this is not feasible with most other makes.
Sorry I don't have first hand experience of these kits
http://www.h-i-d.co.uk/products1.shtml

For sidelight bulbs you can get high powered (about 1 watt) LED 501 bulbs which are about as bright as you can get. The A2 autocheck system does not monitor the sidelight bulbs so no resistor packs are required. I think a few club members have the 9 led bulbs fitted.
http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/automotive-bulbs-501194t10w5w-10mm-wedge-c-101_129.html


Cheers Spike

[Skipton01]

One thing I'll add to Spikes comments about H3 main beam HID kits is that if you are the sort of driver who regularly 'flashes' their headlights at other drivers, then you will need to add a bit of circuitry to enable this, as most ballasts actually try to disable this, because momentary illumination of xenon tubes is the quickest way to kill them.

Also, the start up time of the tubes is quite slow - about 3 seconds, so flashing is pretty unfeasible.

If you just fit low beam HIDs and retain the halogen mains, you won;t be disappointed with the results and you'll retain the flashing ability too - the best of both worlds (unless, like me, you fit a bi-xenon projector system AND keep the halogen main beams - now, when I use full headlamps, I have 2 x 55watt H3 bulbs and 2 x 35watt xenon tubes working together to see the road ahead - it's almost up to rally standards!!).

Cheers,

Mike

[dan_b]

Cheers for this, I hadn't thought of/planned a bi-xenon to include main beam/headlamp flasher - what I meant was replacing the standard yellow filament halogen in the main beam with a more blue-tinted one to more closely match the HIDs on dipped?

I've seen quite a few new cars where the main beam/flash is xenon now as well, I assume the flash is achieved by some nice shuttering mechanism as you'd burn out the ballasts too quickly?

Good point on the colour temperature, certainly don't want to go too "blue"! Have most people gone for 6000Kelvin, or are others running lower K numbers?

Do you have any pictures of where ballasts have been installed in the engine bay, just want to get some idea of location and ease of access, plus where you've secured back cabling etc. Do the kits come with the natty "danger high voltage" stickers these days?!

[Skipton01]

You are right in saying that a number of new cars can now flash their HIDs, but as they can do it from no lights on at all, I suspect that some excessive electronic jiggery pokery is employed.

If you flash whilst the dipped beam is on, then you're right - a simple solenoid controlled flap is allit takes to alter the beam pattern (this is how mine work, so when I flash, the normal halogens come on regardless and the HIDs flaps move regardless).

With respect to colour temperature, 'standard' HIDs are 4100K, so 6000K is about a maximum in terms of going bluer, but staying legal.

Normal halogen is around 3200K, so appears very yellow. For reference, sunlight is 5600K, which is pretty close to pure white. You can get 8000K and 10000K, but these just look completely naff and very Saxo, if you know what I mean;)

[ULP]

This is a mod that interests me but I'd be keen to know if those with HID's get flashed by people.

Coming back from the Duxford social in the dark, I had Sir Trevor (Dave) following me with Driveforward (Ian) behind him - Ian's headlights show how weak the normal ones are but at times I found them a bit sharp on the twisting roads, taking a little too-much attention in my rear view mirror!

[bretti_kivi]

i adjusted my Silverstars and they were.... extremely high, but great on the motorway. The H3s are suboptimal.

Mike, how have you wired the flash Halogens? The "Flash" and "on" positions of main beam are the same pin, no? If I can't flash, I might well butcher a main light and place the projector in there for dip and add the real high beams in the grill... normally when driving home from the airport at 10 or so, I have to dip 3 times in an hour, so adding real lights on a seperate switch isn't that much hassle, but still.

oh yes, while I remember; the legal requirement is 90% brightness within 2 seconds. Without that, no E mark on the ballast.

Bret

[Skipton01]

i adjusted my Silverstars and they were.... extremely high, but great on the motorway. The H3s are suboptimal.

Mike, how have you wired the flash Halogens? The "Flash" and "on" positions of main beam are the same pin, no? If I can't flash, I might well butcher a main light and place the projector in there for dip and add the real high beams in the grill... normally when driving home from the airport at 10 or so, I have to dip 3 times in an hour, so adding real lights on a seperate switch isn't that much hassle, but still.

oh yes, while I remember; the legal requirement is 90% brightness within 2 seconds. Without that, no E mark on the ballast.

Bret

I haven't changed the wiring of the H3 halogens Bretti - all I did was install the bi-xenons and have the low beam voltage feed supply the ballast in the usual manner and then take a feed from the high beam voltage and send it to the solenoid controlling the flap which effectively opens up the projector system creating a high beam from the xenon tube.

Cheers,

Mike

[dan_b]

Ok, back to my 4 questions ;)

This one?
http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/h7-abd-digital-hid-conversion-kit-c-622-p-1-pr-17161.html

or this one off ebay?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XENON-HID-KIT-AUDI-A2-A3-A4-A6-A8-TT-COUPE-QUATTRO-ALL_W0QQitemZ270265820580QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item2 70265820580&_trkparms=72%3A984%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C2 40%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Sidelight LED bulbs
These?
http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/501194t10-mini-light-tower-leds-xenon-white-p-1545.html?osCsid=a5b09a4e9175ecc562e664a256c0259a

or these, apparently "even brighter"?
http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/501-led-extreme-power-15w-360-degree-c-885-p-1-pr-17114.html

But to replace my H3 halogens main beams with a less yellow light, any suggestions?

If anyone could show some photos of their ballast installations I'd be grateful too.

[driveforward]

This is a mod that interests me but I'd be keen to know if those with HID's get flashed by people.

Coming back from the Duxford social in the dark, I had Sir Trevor (Dave) following me with Driveforward (Ian) behind him - Ian's headlights show how weak the normal ones are but at times I found them a bit sharp on the twisting roads, taking a little too-much attention in my rear view mirror!

Erm, yeah... I noticed a few weeks ago when I cleaned inside, I'd caught the headlight adjustment and they were pointing near skyward.. Sorry for that :rolleyes: :o

Your observation is correct though, HID's are a must as the standard lights are awful in comparison

[dan_b]

Also if anyone has any BTDT tips for re-setting the headlamp aim once the new HIDs are in that would be handy...

[spike]

Hi Dan
The quality of the beam cut-off and light pattern is all down to the accuracy of the re-based HID bulbs. A good quality kit where the focal point of the new bulb is identical to the std halogen unit should mean that only a small ammount of adjustment is needed.
The only way I can think of to do this without a beam setter is to do the final part of the installation at night. Do all the prep work then refit the original bulbs. When dark, park the car about 15ft away from a garage door or wall, cover up one headlamp put the lights on then then mark the beam cut-off and kick-up point with tape. Mark the beam pattern of the second lamp. Switch off, wait till the bulbs cool then hook up the HID's. Check the beam pattern against the tape marks and adjust as needed.

Better still, wait till MOT test time, fit the kit then ask the garage to adjust the lights while its being tested

Cheers Spike

[Skipton01]

Ok, back to my 4 questions ;)

This one?
http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/h7-abd-digital-hid-conversion-kit-c-622-p-1-pr-17161.html

or this one off ebay?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/XENON-HID-KIT-AUDI-A2-A3-A4-A6-A8-TT-COUPE-QUATTRO-ALL_W0QQitemZ270265820580QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item2 70265820580&_trkparms=72%3A984%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C2 40%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Sidelight LED bulbs
These?
http://www.ultraleds.co.uk/501194t10-mini-light-tower-leds-xenon-white-p-1545.html?osCsid=a5b09a4e9175ecc562e664a256c0259a

or these, apparently "even brighter"?
http://www.autobulbsdirect.co.uk/501-led-extreme-power-15w-360-degree-c-885-p-1-pr-17114.html

But to replace my H3 halogens main beams with a less yellow light, any suggestions?

If anyone could show some photos of their ballast installations I'd be grateful too.
Answers for you Dan:

Forget the Ebay ones and go for the AutoBulbs kit - I've fitted a few now and they are superb quality so far, plus, if you ever need to make a warranty claim, they'll be a lot easier to deal with!

As to LED sidelights, they'll all blow pretty quickly, so if you can get a guarantee, spend as little as possible.

You'll never match the light colour of a xenon tube with a halogen bulb, but Autobulbs do an own brand H3 which is rated at 4500k, so if you can get some 4100k H7 kits, they'll be close (certainly closer than the standard 6000K H7 tubes and also the light output of 4100K is better than 6000K).

As to ballast mounts, I don't want to give away any of my secrets, but there are loads of mounting options, as long as you keep the ballasts vertical and the connectors downmost, so that water ingress is minimised.

Cheers,

Mike

[dan_b]

Cheers Mike, I'll strike out the credit card today and see how I get on!

[dan_b]

TheAutobulbs HID kit only appears to be in a 6000K colour temperature - I'm quite keen on the 4100K output as that seems to give a higher lumen light strength, have I missed something with Autobulbs?

[dan_b]

Sorry, going off tangent now, but has anyone any experience with 55w HID ballasts? These should be very very bright indeed?
http://www.hids4u.co.uk/store/product.php?productid=63&cat=0&page=1&featured

I wonder if these might be too bright for non-projector lenses, you'd surely be getting too much scatter on our standard glass units?

[Skipton01]

The problem with 55watt tubes and ballasts is less of a scatter one but more of a heat issue - with reflector units, all the heat is thrown forwards and you may find that your polycarbonate headlamps actually melt or crazewith the heat.
Can't recommend them at all.

You are right that Autobulbs only stock 6000k tubes - why not run them and see what you think ((they'll still be 2,5 times brighter than halogen) then find some 4100k tubes on eBay if you're unhappy - at least you'll still have good electrics that way.

BTW I am running one headlamp at 6000k and one at 4100k, as one of my 6000k tubes went. I can't say that one is significantly brighter than the other, but the colour rendition of the 6000k is far better.

Cheers

Mike

[bretti_kivi]

I've personally marked my lights on the garage door using chalk. As long as you don't move the car...

Bret

[dan_b]

Fair enough issue with the heat, don't want my headlight clusters melting! If only I had a garage...

Right, I'm off to order some kit, enough dithering! Will post my results in due course...

[dan_b]

HID kit ordered from autobulbs, along with the Osram Nightbreaker H3s, and the Quad White LED 501 sidelight bulbs. Let's hope it all looks respectably matched colour-wise as I don't want the front of my car looking like a Christmas Tree ;)

Looking forward to being able to see in the dark again.

[dan_b]

Kit arrived. Interestingly - Autobulbs is also the same company as HIDS4U it would seem- the despatch/return address is from that company... Hope to be able to install this beginning of next week all being well.

[chubbybrown]

I look forward to reading your comments on your kit.
Never dabbled with hids before.

[ksimpson]

Ordered one myself, but haven't got it yet. I'd be interested to hear how you installed it.

[dan_b]

Examined the kit last night, the hardware all looks pretty top notch stuff actually - better quality than the previous HID kit I installed on my S2. Unfortunately the replacement H3s weren't delivered at the same time, so I'm going to wait until they arrive before installing - might as well replace all the bulbs at once.

According to the fitting guide on the Forum it suggests you need to take the headlamp unit fully out to fit -has anyone managed to replace all the bulbs with the headlamp unit still in place?

What I do still need to get is a 25mm drillbit to get through the back of the bulb holder -can't find mine from previously!

[driveforward]

According to the fitting guide on the Forum it suggests you need to take the headlamp unit fully out to fit -has anyone managed to replace all the bulbs with the headlamp unit still in place?

What I do still need to get is a 25mm drillbit to get through the back of the bulb holder -can't find mine from previously!

You don't need to remove the cluster, simply remove the access panel and drill the required hole in that ;)

[dan_b]

That's what I like to hear, thanks. Is it possible to access the sidelights and main beam bulbs from there too? I'm just so used to incredibly cramped engine compartments where you have to remove half the engine to reach the dipstick ;)

[Skipton01]

Dan, do yourself a favour and take out the headlamps. It's only 2 screws and there is no need to re-level the beams afterwards.

Cheers

Mike

[ksimpson]

I have to agree with Mike. 30 secs will remove the headlamp and make your life so much easier.

[dan_b]

Cool - when it stops raining (!) I'll get to it!

[dan_b]

Well it stopped raining, so I got on with it (my H4 Osram Nightbreakers aren't due for another week). Took me just shy of 1hr 45 from start to finish, broadly followed the HID installation guide on the forum, useful as an instruction for where to locate the ballasts. Will post photos later of the result (I also snuck in some LED sidelights).

A couple of watchouts for others
1. be careful not to drill the 25mm hole in the bulb cover too far to one edge, you risk the leads fouling the clip for the cover.
2. be careful not to mount the ballasts too far out to the edge of the wings so that the ballast wires aren't pressed up against anything.
3. removing the headlamps does help ease of access.
4. the ballast wire clip in my kit is more than 25mm in width - so when you drill your 25mm hole for the rubber grommet, you may need to cut a little nick to widen the hole a few mm just to get the clip through.
5. if you drop your torx bit down the hole in the front bumper next to the lower headlamp bolt, you can recover it by removing the panel next to the front fog light and having a good root around!

[dan_b]

Here's a picture of the result, as you can see, very bright, very white, very pleased! I haven't been able to check the aim in the dark yet, I might just swing by an MOT station to double check.

You can't see on this shot the colour match with the LEDs, but that is very good indeed so pleased with them - LED side lights is a great little tweak. The stock main beams look ridiculously yellow by comparison - I hope the Osrams look better!

One thing I've noticed is that they are causing a small bit of interference with the FM radio signal - quite a spike of noise when the ballasts spark up, but then it settles down to a higher level of "background hiss". Is this normal, I don't remember this on my previous HID install? Anything I can do to reduce the RF interference?

[dan_b]

One thing I've noticed is that they are causing interference with the FM radio signal - quite a spike of noise when the ballasts spark up, but then it settles down to a higher level of "background hiss". Is this normal, I don't remember this on my previous HID install? Anything I can do to reduce the RF interference?

Just thought Id bump this anyone got any thoughts on the radio interference I get now with the xenons installed and how I might fix that?

[Skipton01]

Should have paid more attention, but do you have a standard Audi headunit? If not it's my guess that insufficient shielding on the aerial is the cause. In fact, this could be the same for an Audi radio too. Supression chokes can work in these situations, but it's best to find the actual cause if you can.

Cheers

Mike

[dan_b]

Should have paid more attention, but do you have a standard Audi headunit? If not it's my guess that insufficient shielding on the aerial is the cause. In fact, this could be the same for an Audi radio too. Supression chokes can work in these situations, but it's best to find the actual cause if you can.

Cheers

Mike

Hi Mike yes I have a standard single Cd single Din Audi head unit. How easy is it to fit a choke can you recommend one? Am loving the new lights though they really shine! Cheers Dan

[ksimpson]

Hi Dan,

Noticed this after my install too. However, it only happens for a couple of seconds when the lights are starting up. I'm interested to see if this can be rectified.

[dan_b]

With mine at least, I get a large noise spike when the ballasts first spark up, which reduces, but it certainly doesn't go away fully - there is a higher level of background static on all radio, the effect of which is like if you've not tuned in quite exactly to the frequency.

[bretti_kivi]

only on the radio? not CD or Tape?

[Skipton01]

Chances are that cd and tape won't be affected as they don't use RF. There's basically 2 possibilities: dodgy ballast or duff shielding/component in the RF chain (aerial wire, aerial amps etc)

To rule out a ballast, unplug them 1 at a time to see if it is only the one that is causing interference

Cheers

Mike

[driveforward]

Just for the record, I have ran my HIDs for over a year and also have a Concert II single slot CD HU.. however, have never noticed such interference.

[dan_b]

It is only on radio, not with CD. I'll try disconnecting one/other ballast to see if one might be faulty, I'd be disappointed if they were.
D

[ksimpson]

I just did a web search and HID radio interferrence is pretty common and nobody appears to have a solution for it. Some cite poor quality ballasts as a cause due to lack of proper sheilding.

I'm going to mail autobulbs and ask them to comment.

[ksimpson]

I got a reply from autobulbs. They suggest moving the ballasts or covering the wiring with foil.

I can't move the ballasts very far as the cables aren't that long. Not sure about the foil suggestion.

Sounds like a bit of a fob off.

[A2 Golden Miler]

Had our HID's fitted by Mike, excellent results, no radio interferance

[drakey70]

Having viewed the forum about hid convertion kits i think i may have made a mistake in buying the in this ebay listing :(

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140258150701

Now having no diy skills im not sure i have the confidence in myself in fitting this thing are they hard to fit and do you think this will last.

[Skipton01]

If you want it installing, just pop over - reasonable rates as always!

Cheers,

Mike

[drakey70]

Cheers mike not sure if you,ve viewed the item but it does come with a 2 year warranty and feed back is very good for the seller.

And if i have a problem with them i contact them direct so fingers crossed.

I,ll pm you for fitting cost plus the passenger side heated mirror still is not working so will ask if you can have look if i cross you palm with gold/paper(notes).

[dan_b]

Just ordered a pack of ferrite RFI choke suppressors - going to put some on the cabling off the ballasts, and some on the back of the head unit, see if it knocks it out.
Strangely, this morning, the RFI almost completely disappeared for a minute or two, then sort of phased in and out. It's a bit odd. It also seems to be worse on the lower end of the FM radio band.

I also installed my Osram Nightbreakers for my main beams - they are a bit brighter than the old ones, and slightly less yellow, but they're still nothing like a colour match for the 6000k HIDS!

[ksimpson]

Hi Dan,

I'll wait and see if they work for you before ordering.

The only thing I found in Halfrods was an interference supressor that goes onto the main power wire on the alternator. I'll fit it and see if it helps.

I presume you can pick up RFI choke suppressors in Maplins?

[dan_b]

I ordered my RFI Chokes off ebay - there are loads on there. Will let you know how I get on when I get to it.

[A2 Golden Miler]

On the subject of difinitive HID upgrades.
some time ago I bought a HID kit, I had it fitted by Mike, excellent results

http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5140&page=6

Still on original bulbs, no buzzing/whining
I have had no issues at all since they were fitted and have just taken the car for its first MOT since fitting, passed without issue.

Thanks Mike

[the grim reeper]

I got my Hids from hids4u super fast delivery, i went for the 5000k with the anti-glare. Mikes fitting the at ADI just looking at some upgrades for the full beam

Cheers Phil

[dan_b]

Ok - I had my bonnet off at the weekend after having washed the car (by hand), and I couldn't help but notice that both my ballasts and associated wiring were damp. Should I be concerned?

[ksimpson]

I don't think that should be a problem. The ballasts are water resistant and would need to be as moisture under the bonnet is not unusual.

[Skipton01]

Just make sure that the connectors on the ballast box are facing downwards - this will ensure that water just drips off from the cable instead of seeping into the connector and past the seals, as would happen if they were on top.

Cheers,

Mike

[ksimpson]

Was just thinking that there is a drain pipe that run from under the windscreen and goes down through the engine. Just check that it didn't become disconnected and could possibly be causing your moisture problem.

I'm aware of it as I had to disconnect it to get the the top strut bolts when replacing the driver's side spring.

[dan_b]

I did look at the drain pipe, there was a bit of dampness on the outside of that too, but the ballast on the nearside was also damp, so I guess it just gets in there whatever happens.
Am going to look at ways to cure the RF interference when I get round to fitting my Bose upgrade as I'll be having the head unit out at that point so I'd rather only have to do that once... Got some RFI chokes delivered though ready.

[spike]

I got my Hids from hids4u super fast delivery, i went for the 5000k with the anti-glare. Mikes fitting the at ADI just looking at some upgrades for the full beam

Cheers Phil

Hi Phil

Have you had chance to try out the new lights? I am thinking of buying the same Hid kit so would be interested in your comments on their performance. Also wondered if you think the anti glare bulbs are worth the extra

Cheers Spike

[the grim reeper]

Hi Phil

Have you had chance to try out the new lights? I am thinking of buying the same Hid kit so would be interested in your comments on their performance. Also wondered if you think the anti glare bulbs are worth the extra

Cheers Spike

They look great, had to lift the beam patern but that only look a minute or so, me and Alanb never got the chance to compare as he got the 6000k ones but yes they do look the dogs.

Cheers Phil

Thanks again well worth the extra work Mike

[Skipton01]

Absolutely no problems Phil. Glad you like the end results too. Although the bulbs we fitted were quite different to the normal retrofit jobs (actually re-based D2Rs for the technically minded), the connectors on them were standard, so you can always change them for different colour temps if you want to experiment (4300K, 6000K or even go silly and try 8000K, but I don;t recommend it).

Cheers,

Mike

[dan_b]

Ok, am still getting RFI on my FM radio with the HIDs on - never had this before and this is my 3rd car with retrofit HIDs. I phoned Autobulbs this morning and their recommended fixes are:
1. more shielding around the aerial cabling
2. wrap the ballasts/cabling with aluminium foil!

They said if that didn't work then perhaps I needed to upgrade the ballasts to the "ultimate" ones? Hmm.

Any thoughts?

[alanm]

.. and, no doubt, the '"ultimate" ones cost a shed load more?

Having suffered the ultimate crappo light output possible from:

1) a 1960 6v VW Beetle;
2) a 1993 Citroen XM.

By comparison the A2's headlights, even in standard format, are excellent!

[dan_b]

yes, ultimates are more.
I've just had a really good customer service follow-up from Autobulbs though, suggesting some additional checks to see if one or other or both ballasts are causing it and positing that a replacement is an option if I can rule anything else out at this stage, so I'm happy with that so far. Just need to spend some time working through it.
Anyone know where I can get some "aluminium insulating tape"?

[Skipton01]

You can get aluminium adhesive tape from builders merchants - it is used extensively for bonding the aluminium clad insulation boards together.

Fingers crossed, but I think that it will be a fruitless excercise - after all, how close does the aerial wire get to the ballasts!?

Cheers,

Mike

[dan_b]

Cheers - well I guess I have to try!

[Marco77]

i have a cheap set of hids off ebay (£60) had them over a year now still work excellent and i have never had any interferance through the radio.

[ksimpson]

Still having the radio interferrence also. I'll also try isolating the ballasts to see if one of them is causing the problem.

[dan_b]

Have you got the same ballasts as me? The HIDS4U kit?

[AlanA2]

Would a bad earth not cause interference.

Alan

[ksimpson]

Have you got the same ballasts as me? The HIDS4U kit?

Yes, we bought and installed around the same time.

[dan_b]

You contacted them as well I seem to remember? Might be best if we both go back to Autobulbs together if the foil trick doesn't work?

[the grim reeper]

It maybe where you have fitted them, Mike fitted mine at ADI and i've had no trouble with the radio. Mine are the hids4u 5000k anti glare kit

Cheers Phil