New TV - PLASMA - LCD

[richard-]

I have been looking at new TV's, I hadn't looked at plasma's but someone on another site recommended plasma. I have been looking at the stats, and plasma in the price range I am looking at has 100Hz and a 30,000:1 contrast ratio whereas with LCD they only have 10,000:1 and some not with the 100Hz.

Mostly looking at Sony, Samsung, and Panasonic. Also come across richersounds, haven't brought anything from them in years and years but brought a mini-disc from them when they was the thing to have and never had any problems.

Found this samsung 42" plasma which looks pretty good

http://www.froogle.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=SAMS-PS42A457

http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/detail/features.do?group=television&type=television&subtype=plasma&model_cd=PS42A457P1DXXU

My initial choice before plasma was the below
http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?Quicklinx=52W2&fb=429

Any one know much about TV's, not too bothered about 1080p as been reading that you are better getting a good manu of tv with 720, because your eyes cannot see the extra lines on 1080p.

[Skipton01]

Ahh, a little favourite subject of mine!

There are many, many aspects to consider when buying a new TV, and one of the first things to do is to ignore the contrast ratios and other manufacturer data!

The new generation of OLED tvs are quoting contrast ratios of 1,000,000:1, which is simply ridiculous, but they help to sell tvs!

One major factor is running costs: the average 42" plasma consumes around 600-700 watts whereas LCD uses about 200 or less for a 40" set. This will soon add up over the course of a year - useful if you are paying the electric bill!.

Another fact: 100Hz is meaningless when it comes to flat panels, as they don't produce the picture in the same way as old tubed tellys did. In reality, all the LCD/plasmas on the market will NOT flicker due to a 50Hz refresh rate.

At the end of the day, a plasma will produce deeper blacks and will be smoother in panning shots, but the differences are only noticeable if you are watching 2 sets side by side.

Get a decent brand and if you can, buy from John Lewis or the Sony centre, who both supply a 5 year warranty as standard (VERY useful indeed).

Oh,and finally, 2 things:

Sony don't make plasma, as they deem it to be outdated technology (I have 2 Sony LCDs) and don't go off a picture displayed in a showroom - you'll need to get it colour balanced when home - I can do this for you, as can any reasonably experienced and equipped AV engineer.

Cheers

Mike

[richard-]

I was looking at a price match at john lewis with the 5yr warranty.

I will take a look at LCD again, what tv would you pick, panasonic seems higher rated than samsung. But there is a higher price to pay for the panasonic.

Ahh, a little favourite subject of mine!

There are many, many aspects to consider when buying a new TV, and one of the first things to do is to ignore the contrast ratios and other manufacturer data!

The new generation of OLED tvs are quoting contrast ratios of 1,000,000:1, which is simply ridiculous, but they help to sell tvs!

One major factor is running costs: the average 42" plasma consumes around 600-700 watts whereas LCD uses about 200 or less for a 40" set. This will soon add up over the course of a year - useful if you are paying the electric bill!.

Another fact: 100Hz is meaningless when it comes to flat panels, as they don't produce the picture in the same way as old tubed tellys did. In reality, all the LCD/plasmas on the market will NOT flicker due to a 50Hz refresh rate.

At the end of the day, a plasma will produce deeper blacks and will be smoother in panning shots, but the differences are only noticeable if you are watching 2 sets side by side.

Get a decent brand and if you can, buy from John Lewis or the Sony centre, who both supply a 5 year warranty as standard (VERY useful indeed).

Oh,and finally, 2 things:

Sony don't make plasma, as they deem it to be outdated technology (I have 2 Sony LCDs) and don't go off a picture displayed in a showroom - you'll need to get it colour balanced when home - I can do this for you, as can any reasonably experienced and equipped AV engineer.

Cheers

Mike

[richard-]

I was looking at a price match at john lewis with the 5yr warranty.

I will take a look at LCD again, what tv would you pick, panasonic seems higher rated than samsung. But there is a higher price to pay for the panasonic.

I was looking at avforums and saw you can change all the settings and what they have tried and tested. Is this a simple change on a options menu, or more difficult?

[Skipton01]

I'd pick neither!

I can whole-heartedly recommend the Sony 40V4000, available at £700 with a 5 year warranty and the picture is fully calibrate-able too giving a fabulous image.

Cheers,

Mike

[wooly A2]

A friend of mine hes just bought a 60 " samsung plasma and if hes got it its gonna be good
cos hes a real consumerist he also swear's by Richer sounds its Onkyo this and Onkyo that ....LOL !!!

But i was also told by another friend of mine who works in the trade (well known chainstore), he said dont
buy a Plasma Tv as there yesterdays technology and if you can afford it go for Sony LCD ....
Funnily enough he also advised me to not buy it from his shop but get one from John Lewis's...LOL !!!!

[Skipton01]

I was looking at avforums and saw you can change all the settings and what they have tried and tested. Is this a simple change on a options menu, or more difficult?

On certain makes and models, this is a simple menu set up option, but on others, it involves a dip into the service menu (which you don't want to go into unless you know exactly what you;re doing!)

To make a proper calibration, you;ll need a colourimeter too and software.

Cheers,

Mike

[driveforward]

Panasonic everytime.. I've never owned a duff product by them.

[trex]

And another thing,a plasma tv losses half it's contrast (visible, not advertised) after about 5000 hours. It literally consumes itself. Plus, if you run the same picture (for example keep it on the same channel that displays it's logo permanently), after several hours, the logo will start to burn a noticeable mark on the screen, becoming more and more apparent. I've seen this on a plasma tv that runs a PS3 game 13 hours a day in the shop where i work at. The game menu became readable on a white picture after only 3 days.
Go for a lcd, as this technology has overcome many of it's major problems and is beyond plasma in most cases.

[richard-]

On certain makes and models, this is a simple menu set up option, but on others, it involves a dip into the service menu (which you don't want to go into unless you know exactly what you;re doing!)

To make a proper calibration, you;ll need a colourimeter too and software.

Cheers,

Mike

A little to expensive, anything around £550 you recommend that is fully calib at later stage, can go smaller in size..

[Skipton01]

A friend of mine hes just bought a 60 " samsung plasma and if hes got it its gonna be good
cos hes a real consumerist he also swear's by Richer sounds its Onkyo this and Onkyo that ....LOL !!!

But i was also told by another friend of mine who works in the trade (well known chainstore), he said dont
buy a Plasma Tv as there yesterdays technology and if you can afford it go for Sony LCD ....
Funnily enough he also advised me to not buy it from his shop but get one from John Lewis's...LOL !!!!

Err, notice a correlation!?

Oh and Onkyo are very good in terms of performance per £, but when it comes to power efficiency, they suck juice like it was going out of fashion: example - Denon AVR-2809 home cinema amp takes 550 watts, whereas the Onkyo TR905 uses 1000watts!!! and this is for the same power output to the speakers!

Stick with Sony if going down the LCD route and get a price match from JL.

Cheers,

Mike

[Skipton01]

A little to expensive, anything around £550 you recommend that is fully calib at later stage, can go smaller in size..

Try this:

http://www.richersounds.com/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=SONY-KDL40V3000U

It's what I've got in the lounge at the moment - superb set and full HD.

Tres is completely right in his criticism of plasma too, in all respects.

Cheers,

Mike

[richard-]

It looks like theres a newer model out soon: SONY KDL40L4000U

JL don't have either versions of the tv though :(

[Skipton01]

It looks like theres a newer model out soon: SONY KDL40L4000U

JL don't have either versions of the tv though :(

Ahh, you've already been hit by new version-itis!

Thing is Richard, ther'll always be a new model round the corner, but in this case, the L series is a more basic offering of the V series, offering only 2 HDMI ins and a slightly different styling.

The V is better equipped and is available now and is cheap as the 3000 has been superceded by the 4000.

Cheers,

Mike

[humps]

One major factor is running costs: the average 42" plasma consumes around 600-700 watts whereas LCD uses about 200 or less for a 40" set. This will soon add up over the course of a year - useful if you are paying the electric bill!.


I have to say this is simply not true. (take panasonic and pioneer as examples) 42" plasmas uses max of about 560W for 1080p models and lower for 720p models. Consumption also varies depending on the actual picture, watching all bright stuff, it nears the max rate otherwise watching Batman will use less than 200W. LCD power usage is almost constant. (please google reviews hdtvtest.co.uk is pretty good and find model's manufacturer's quoted figure).

I have the Pioneer 1st gen 42" Kuro (4080) which averages a touch over average 40" LCD power usage after run-in and calibration. Pioneer has flawless signal processing and SD tv looks better than anything else you can buy in the shops including CRTs (if there is one at 42").

When people raved about the previous gen Samsung LCD, I simply could not tolerate the SD pictures (sister in law as a 40" M87 when I was still using CRT). The Sony 3k series then came and I saw and was as disappointed. The Sony 4k series came after I bought my Pio 4080 and I'm glad I did because SD tv on LCDs are still ugly, I would bring back my CRT! The black colour on LCDs are still no where near as good as a half decent plasma let alone CRT. Trust me, I didn't want to buy plasma because of higher power usage, burn in issue, plasma buzz, phosphor trail, life time ...etc. But I just couldn't bottle LCD quality for TV and movies, even current generations. LCDs are pretty good for games as you can forget about burn in, plasma trail ...etc but when graphics are dark, the shadow details are either smudge black or grey. The pioneer Kuro 2nd gen is at least 3 generations better than current LCDs. Pioneer's infinite contrast prototype last year shows it can make almost undetectable-by-naked-eye black colour, LCDs will probably never reach the level and will be replaced by OLED or SED (if it ever comes back).

I sit 4 meters away from a 42" screen so 1080p makes no practical difference. 720p is as good. Watching BBC 1 which is very high bit rate compared to ITV, made a few of my friends thought I was watching HD broadcast (which I also have). That's nothing to do with plasma/lcd, it is signal processing, scaling quality of the Pioneer. Although the raw talent of the panel helps, like displaying blacks properly ;-) I've seen them all in shops, ASK on Tottenham Court Road in London (most complete and side by side compare), Selfridges and John Lewis. Pioneer plasma is the the one for me, failing that Panasonic plasmas. Throw them away after 5yrs, by which you LCD's back light will probably be dead or gone dim. With the current Pioneer quality, there is nothing to say it won't last 5yrs given I also have free 5yr warranty from Pioneer UK!

The choice is yours

[bye_bye_alfa]

gonna stick my oar in!

I bought Panasonic Plasma 37"
I play Xbox 360 through it via a VGA cable and it's knockout!
I also connect my MacBook Pro to it via same cable, and watch BBC iPlayer or wireless internet, again it looks fab.

For me if you watch any SD [standard definition] then plasma is far more natural than LCD.

As for burn on, I get none, this was a trait of the old plasmas.

As far as power consumption, I thought I read plasma use less power when displaying dark images and more when displaying lighter images??

Mine is 720, as I've seen 1080 an can't tell the difference.

I paid £649, which was well over a year ago.

Funnily enough I just bought an AVTEX LCD £369 for my motorhome, it's good, but it aint no plasma!

As for 'old' technology... who cares, we are all still using CD's?? how old are they.

Oh and my plasma has a half life of 60,000 hours... LCD's also have a half life.


The choice is yours, take your favourite DVD when doing a demo I did after buying a 40" Samsung LCD and being in tears when I got it home, it was shi*e on DVD playback, I promptly took it back.
When I tested the Panasonic with the same DVD, I got my cash out!


Good luck

Wilse



PS Just read the above post, and agree the pioneer is brilliant, I didn't want to spend so much so went Panasonic, mine also has 5 year guarantee.

PPS I think the 100hz is not good either, and the sets I've seen, can't explain it, but it doesn't look right... know what I mean?

[heidi987321]

I always think of this quote by a leading manufacture

"If it works, it is obsolete!"

[chubbybrown]

I got a 1080p 37" Panasonic LCD,from john lewis last christmas.
5yr warranty.

Very Nice actually and so Pleased I bought it.:)

I got the wii thru the composite and my linux sat box thru the hdmi upscaler dvd recorder.

Good result :D


Roy

[ksimpson]

We have a fairly big room and have a 42" Hitachi at the moment. It's 1080i, but is excellent in terms of SD and HD. However, it's a bit too small for the room.

We're looking for something bigger and I'm leaning towards plasma as the performance is better for SD. Haven't settled on a model yet, but I'm impressed by Panasonic and Pioneer. Budget is around €2,000 (£1,600).

[noodlefreak]

i thought about the sonys too originally but ended up with the samsung because it was much much cheaper and better for value. 3 hdmi ports, component and 2 scart, whereas the sonys are usually quite mean on connectivity.

The sony lcd panels are actually made by samsung. Its the processing engine thats different, 100hz helps for for sport but I've only got the older 50/60hz engine model and it seems fine to me.

The only thing i dont like about the samsung is the menu system, sony and panasonic are much better for this.

I got mine from http://www.robertwhyteltd.co.uk/ also with 5 year warranty.

[humps]

Plasmas indeed use less power on dark image. Think each plasma cell as a light bulb, less light needs less current.

I would have bought the Panny 50" PZ70 for £100 less than my 42" Pio if it did 24p properly (3:2 pull down judder). However, the new Panny 8x series are seriously good value again + 24p playback, if you don't mind the still high-ish wattage. Their black level improved to 1st Kuro level. Panasonic LCDs and Plasmas are both top rated, while Bravia 4k series LCDs are amongst the best LCDs around, with best LCD blacks too (excluding local dimming LED).

ksimpson, for that money, I would go with Panasonic 50" PZ81. Depending on your viewing distance, 1080p starts to make a difference at 50" so I would hesitate to recommend Pio 508xd which is 720p but it is a (1st gen) Kuro... Personally, I also want a good looking TV if it is this big and piano black Pioneers are amongst the most handsome.

[GBMSU]

I am waiting until the digital switchover is completed in our area before I
even consider a plasma or LCD television. By that time HD on freeview should
be a reality as well as on Freesat and Sky. Then I will look at what is
available without needing set top boxes.
So for the next couple of years or so, I will stick with my old valve set. One
new valve about 5 years ago that cost a fiver is all it has cost in 38 years!
(Okay, you can turn the central heating down when it's on with all those
valves glowing!)