Nightmare of getting German Environmental Permit

Alan_uk

A2OC Donor
German Umweltplakette - Nightmare of getting this Environmental Permit

If you are planning to drive to a number of German cities then beware that you need a Environmental Permit (Umweltplakette)

A zoomable map of the applicable cities is here <bad link deleted in 2018> - try this https://www.umwelt-plakette.de/en/i...es-in-germany/german-environmental-zones.html

Towns have coloured zones, red, yellow, green, though I believe only green applies currently. If you drive into a zone without the right sticker its a Euro 40 fine and penalty points.

Vehicles are classed by Euro emission standards or by date of registration if they have no Euro standard classification. So an A2 TDI is Euro 4 so it gets a green sticker. Stickers are valid throughout Germany. Permits for German vehicles is €5 and lasts the life of the vehicle.

Getting a sticker for a foreign car before you travel means using one of the few web sites and operators are free to charge what they like for administration! I've seen some hotel websites offer to get one for their guests.

This site is the cheapest at €6 - it's the Berlin council.
https://www.berlin.de/labo/kfz/dienstleistungen/feinstaubplakette.shop.en.php

However it's been a nightmare to get the web site working - I must of tried 30+ times.
Here's some tips:
- don't use Firefox (unfortunately) as the payment screen only partially displays. They use the www.saferpay.com web site (which incidentally the Scanlines ferry also uses and that didn't work either)
- Opera doesn't work
- Use IE :(
- Scan your vehicle registration document as jpg or pdf (I only tried jpg)
- I only scanned the 2nd page - but I've yet to get my sticker.
- keep the scanned image below 1.5mb (I read on another site). I tried more than this to start and then reduced to 750k
- keep the colour depth to 24 bit and reduce the resolution to reduce the size.
- sometime you get an error message but often just get thrown back to the first screen if the site doesn't like the uploaded file.
- enter the vehicle no. as AA99AAA (GB)
- after selecting the file to upload it doesn't actually upload until you click Next
- I use Barclaycard and found IE7 on my home computer didn't display the Barclaycard secure site. That's not been a problem before on Firefox but it may be IE or the fact that the Barclaycard secure site appeared to be within a frame.
- it worked on my company laptop with IE8

I've read people downloading an application form and enclosing Euro notes but it will presumably need a €10 note


There are alternatives:

This site charges €15 by credit card or a bit less by post but foreign cheques are expensive. I've read people enclosing Euro notes. Just found this so haven't tried it.
http://www.tuev-sued.de/auto_fahrzeuge/feinstaub-plakette/feinstaubplakette_ausland/england

Avoid this one - it charges at least €30, and much more for express services or a printed permit as opposed to a handwritten one (I guess that might look fraudent).
http://www.umwelt-plakette.de/int_england.php

One web site said also scan the MOT certificate and put both into a zip folder.

Good luck!

I will update this post when I get my sticker, if I get a green one, and say how long it took to arrive.

UPDATE

Arrived after 10 days. it was a handwritten Yellow permit.
 
Last edited:
If this is an issue for more users then I'm sure that the Club dealer in Germany can do a bulk print of these. I've just realised I will need one (oops!).

Yellow applies to AMF engines; ANY (1.2 61PS), BHC (55kw as of Sep 03), ATL (66kw), BAD (1.6FSI), BBY and AUA (both 1.4/55kw Petrol) should all be able to get Green.

If there is an issue with ANY and green, talk to me, you may need some tricks.

Bret
 
My 1.4 TDI AMF had a green sticker when i imported it from Germany. What sort of tricks can we theoretically rely on? :)
 
AMF should not have green, full stop. ;)

ANY is possible if you have the correct numbers in the correct place on the documents.

Bret
 
I have also applied for a plakette from Berlin. German owners of 1.2Tdi's can get them re-classified to D4 via the TUV without any modifications to obtain a green plakette. This option is, I presume, not open to residents of other European countries. If so this is a contravention of EU law - members states are not allowed to discriminate against citizens of other member states. I look forward to finding out the colour of my plakette!

RAB
 
no, but then the documents do not state the exhaust norms in the same way on my docs either.
They may well argue it. Your papers are not coded in the same way that theirs are and you can't re-code if they're not coded - so I don't see how it could work.

The only reason the Germans "get away" with it is because they explicitly request that the numbers are entered in the right places on the docs. You will have a very, very hard time proving discrimination on this one, as you're not subject to an AU or TÜV as a German-registered car would be. And to be honest, the UK and Finnish tests are a walkover compared to the German ones.

What precise model do you have? fixed bench seat? no PAS?

Bret
 
PAS, A/C, & 'heavy' seats, in fact just the same as some German owners now re-classified as D4. If this procedure is only open to German owners and as a result they can receive green and non-German owners of identical cars cannot, by EU law that is discrimination.

RAB
 
Yes, strictly speaking, it is.

I'll try and explain...

The German car tax system is complex. Germany, as a nation, lives by bureaucrats and engineers. This also means that everything has a code. As an example, there are seven tax classes: I, II, III, IV, IV with weighting, V and VI. When you get married, you move from I to IV; or your partner goes V and you go III or you both stay IV. III has a break, V is higher. So if you're staying home or working part-time, you go V and the higher-earner goes III, meaning he brings home more.
Relating this to car tax: the limitations put on car tax are pretty simple.
1. Engine size
2. Transportable weight
3. Max weight (which is related to 2).

So there were some really strange vehicles which are in "interesting" classes. You used to be able to uprate a 4x4 to a max weight of 2.8tonnes and suddenly it would be an LGV or so and the tax would drop to one based on weight. That was eliminated several years ago.
The D4 situation with the A2 appears to have come around because the Audi engineers said "we need less than 900kg for D4" and "the max weight still needs to be less than 1300 to get the max / empty weight ratio we need". Hence the lack of foldable seats, climate and everything else.

Both the 1.4s and the 1.2 were subject to tax breaks when they were new. 5l status and 3l status were worth the better part of €200 / year. The Exhaust standards became important in 2004 or so, when EU3 was required and then EU4 became more common. That's also why there are a lot of kits around to convert from D1 to D2 or D3 - many used to raise the tickover from cold to 3k rpm, meaning suddenly you're going through a test cycle with an engine which is a tad warmer and - hey presto - your numbers look great. All legit and by the book.

A note here: *everything* you change on your car in Germany *must* have paperwork. Exhaust? Approval paperwork, please, including dB numbers, for both drive-by and stationary. Wheels? KBA number? Not got one? Then provide a second set, please, so we can destructively test them. I think you get the picture.
Now, with this in mind: The D4 "trick" is not really a trick. They've found a TÜV, in Bamberg, which is prepared to re-key the cars. The numbers are correct, they are not breaking any rules and this is all above board. However, the number changing they are doing is to the national numbers, and not at a CoC level. The CoC already says the correct information, but the average TÜV guy is not interested in doing this for whatever reason. Since the most an average TÜV can do is say "no" - and they do, an awful lot, because anything and everything has to be tested every two years, including trailers - then I would be very surprised if they took the initiative on this. As far as their reference material is concerned - and everyone else's, too - the 1.2 is good only for a yellow sticker.

The only way around this that I can think of is to talk personally with the TÜV guy in Bamberg and get some confirmation from him that there would be no problem reclassifying if it were a German vehicle. The relevant class, BTW, is 46 IIRC.

I can check with the club's dealer (my own part 1 goes tomorrow to him for my plakette) if he can issue a green one for a 1.2 without any further supporting documentation. I suspect the answer will be no.

Bret
 
Thanks for that.

I suspect that the weight issue might have been more about Audi claiming a genuine 3L car (those 1.2's without A/C, PAS and with fixed rear seats).

It sounds as though TUV regulations are too complex to be applied consistently by mere mortals. Either a particular car is D4 or not surely. If this isn't the case there is something seriously wrong. It doesn't alter the fact though that this is in direct conflict with one of the founding principles of the EU.

I will contact TUV Bamberg (they have their own website) to see what they say.

RAB
 
The weight thing really is to do with the empty / full ratios - there's an article in AutoBild from 2001 about how they saved 19kg by adopting the fixed bench.

You need to speak to a specific person if you're going to do it, and it's Herr K. (I need to check the name). I do not expect any of the Bamberg TÜV to be able to speak English.
As I've said, though, this is a re-coding within German contexts, so a confirmation from him that you could get green... better still, he can issue a green one, directly. I'd have to ask what paperwork you need, but a formless request should be enough as an email. I know that's how mine was sent :)

Bret
 
not true, please re-read:

Vehicles registered abroad are classified on the basis of the European emissions standard according to which they have been registered, provided this standard is identified in their vehicle registration documentation or can otherwise be proved. If this is not the case, a simplified approach based on the first year of registration is used to issue emissions stickers to foreign cars:

In other words, we / you / me need to talk to the guy in Bamberg about getting "additional information" for a UK car, IF they decide a yellow plakette is appropriate.

I get a green one, and my car is from 2002.

Bret
 
is it worth it for the green one? Well, if you want to drive in Frankfurt - like I do - then you need at least a yellow one.

As of 2012, if I want to drive in the zone - and it's a huge one, bounded in the west by the A5, in the south by the A3 and north and east by the A661 - then I need a green one.

Since you need to show a copy of the Part I anyway, then I'd suggest that you do it directly with the TÜV Bamberg if it's that important (which it probably will be).

It's hassle, but I like the German system for one thing: you know where you stand. There is no copper on the side of the road saying "that's too loud, son" because you have the paperwork stating how loud it is and they can corroborate any time they like. Which is also why I'm sort of surprised about this green plakette, but I suspect someone is simply reading the rules and applying them, nothing more. It would also be within the remit and responsibility of another TÜV to do the same, but if they don't want to, then they don't have to.

For this reason, I'm also interested to see what the Berlin guys issue RAB with, because the numbers on the CoC say green.

Bret
 
Last edited:
It's Herr Kestel. Fortunately I still have the old German registration document so that might help. I will send an email, my german is not up to a phone call; an email also might bring a more considered reply and you have the paperwork for proof. In a few years time a yellow is not going to be of much use.

If TUV say yes and Berlin give me a yellow without re-consideration, Germany has a problem. I've already found Angela Merkel's email!

RAB
 
The initial German documents will not help in this case, and I would very strongly suggest against rocking the boat.

If Bamberg / Oberfranken get told to stop doing this, no-one else will. Therefore no new green plaketten for any A2 TDI drivers without a particle filter, along with stricter interpretation guidelines.

I'll translate this correctly now: Herr Kestel is the technical engineer responsible for the region. He has some responsibility and power. He agreed to his name and number being published on the forum, so he must be pretty sure of himself.
The numbers on the CoC relate to THIS vehicle only and because of the weight of some 1.2s, the relation mass / emissions is not OK for EU4. It is, however, OK for D4 and it's D4 that's important for the green sticker. The tax code on the back page of the CoC (nr. 47) should say 55 rather than 46. It may not be on there.

There is, to my knowledge - and expressed many times in the thread on the German forum - no ability on the part of Audi to re-classify the 1.2.
Ich habe schriftlich von Audi, dass es nicht möglich sei umzuschlüsseln.
http://www.a2-freun.de/forum/showpost.php?p=682668&postcount=165

Bottom line: please tread carefully. Someone is sticking their neck out on this, where lots of testers are refusing point-blank. The alternative will be for everyone to spend €1000 fitting DPFs.

Bret
 
OK then. CoC shows 46 not 55.

There's quite a few owners on the German forum with D4 and A/C at least. Are there any owners with no PAS, no A/C, a 20L tank and fixed rear seats? I've never seen a A2 1.2 for sale without A/C. Gaff used to have a 1.2 without PAS and with a 20L tank but he had A/C. That's the nearest I have ever seen to a genuine A2 3L.

Hopefully we'll meet them in the World Cup!!

RAB
 
Back
Top