Project: Anti-roll-bar for the front axis. Discussion!

A2-D2

Member
Dear Friends of well shaped Aluminium,

because there is nothing out on the market thats fitting in the audi a2 (only for the read axis by jabbasport, whiteline and in the near future H&R), we are trying to realize a anti roll bar for the front axis in 22mm.

I just start this thread, to evaluate the chances to get enough people together over the hole EU to kickstart this project. This project is mainly promoted in the a2-freun.de forums, but will be also promoted in the dutch forums in the next days.

It will be produced by Eibach in a batch of 25 pieces, but only if we bring 25 or more people together who will pay for. Eibach offered me a price of round about 250EUR (~206GBP) max, rather less.

If you are interested, please leave a short note in this thread and let me know what you think about.

For those of you, who can read german, please follow this link:
www.a2-freun.de/forum/showthread.php?p=1068473

A2-D2
from a2-freun.de
 
I would definitely be interested in one of these ARB's for my car and also would be keen to carry a few units in stock for future members use.
I can be reached directly at [email protected]

blue skies
tony
 
Sounds interesting, and if it helps combat inside tyre wear then that's something I would definitely be interested in too.

:cool:
 
Sounds interesting, and if it helps combat inside tyre wear then that's something I would definitely be interested in too.

:cool:

I am not sure how a stiffer anti-roll bar would make a lot of difference to inside tyre wear?
An ARB works by having virtually no effect on spring rates while driving forward in more or less a straight line.
They add to the spring rate while cornering, and they stiffen up the suspension by linking both wheels / springs under cornering pressure.

Inside tyre wear is often caused by lowering the car using shorter springs etc. this alters the geometry and can result in negative camber, where the inside of the tyre is under more pressure.

The ARB does not affect the geometry just the spring rating.

So I am not sure why it would help inside tyre wear.

I am not saying it doesn't, I am no expert, but I would be surprised!!!

Uprated (thicker) ARBs stiffen up the spring rate under cornering and so can improve handling though, so these may be worth a try, but I would also worry about causing an imbalance. The rears would potentially have a softer spring rating under cornering than the front, is that a good idea?
Again, I am not disputing anything, just unsure.

Steve B
 
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Hello friends,

seems that we have halftime at the moment, 13 people or more announced interest for 1 or more ARBs after one week. Good job, but we are not on the finish line yet.

Birchall: You are right. Installing only a thicker front ARB can benefit a imbalance to more understeer, because the twist-beam rear axis is WAY to soft. To solve this problem, you have to install a ARB on the rear axis too. As far as i know, you dont have this TÜV / Technical Inspection Association troubles in UK, therefor you can install a Whiteline, Jabbasport or in near future a H&R rear ARB.

In germany we cant install Whiteline or Jabbasport legal, because they dont come with any TÜV certificates. The new H&R Kit includes a front and rear ARB. This kit is brand new and will be released in the near future. It comes with TÜV certificates and is designated for PQ24 cars like Polo 9N, Ibiza 6L, Fabia 6Y and 5J. The A2 is PQ24 too, but because of the aluminium body the new H&R front ARB dont fit in the A2 (all front ARBs on the world wide market do not fit in the Audi A2). The good news is: The rear ARB from this kit fits! As from now on, there is a rear ARB with certificates for the german guys. This inspired us to start a front ARB project.

I have currently installed a H&R rear ARB prototype at the rear axis combined this the 18mm original Audi ARB at the front axis. Its a much better driveability with this setup, but i still notice that the 18mm front ARB is to thin. A thicker one would be better.
 
So, there are 40 A2-drivers interested already.
But only just a few from the UK.
It seems there will also be a stabi from Eibach developed for the rear axel.
So if you're interested, than join the list.
 
Sorry I have amended this post my eyes must have been going square after long shift at work on the bank holiday. I now see that this is for the front Doh as in the header oopps.

I might be interested in this will have a full read when I have a bit more time.

Apologies for those that read my previous post

Nige
 
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Inside tyre wear is often caused by lowering the car using shorter springs etc. this alters the geometry and can result in negative camber, where the inside of the tyre is under more pressure.

In my experience, inside wear is caused by too much toe-out. If it were caused by camber, the wear would be progressive across the tyre, but it's limited to the edge.

RAB
 
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In my experience, inside wear is caused by too much toe-out. If it were caused by camber, the wear would be progressive across the tyre, but it's limited to the edge.

RAB

Yes, you are correct in that toe out is the main culprit, but when you lower a car, it normally leads to an increase in negative camber (unless you correct it, which can be done of course) with negative camber there is more pressure on the inside edge of the tyre and that does speed up the wear on that portion of the tyre.

So I think that you are right and toe in may be the cause here, if the tracking is out. But my basic point was that fitting an anti roll bar will not correct uneven tyre wear because they do not alter the geometry of the suspension.

Steve B
 
But my basic point was that fitting an anti roll bar will not correct uneven tyre wear because they do not alter the geometry of the suspension.

I'm not arguing with that Steve!

RAB
 
Be careful folks - the A2 is already pretty stiff as a chassis and any increase of the ARB stiffness at the front will INCREASE understeer and visa versa the rear.

Ideally they should be designed specifically to the vehicle's weight and track - TDI will be different to 1.4 Petrol and different again for 1.2 TDIs.

When we had one of the first A2OC meets at Castle Combe (2003?) i took the 1.2 TDI out on track with a Lotus Race driver - he was most impressed with the handling.
 
The final stage has begun. There were 51 A2-drivers interested in a stabikit.
So a deal was made with H&R for a complete stabikit for the front and rear.
Price for the kit is €365 (thats 289 in your silly money :D), this includes shipment and taxes.

More reading here:
http://www.a2-freun.de/forum/showthread.php?t=49517

One must apply with a PM to the starter of this, "A2-D2"
 
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Too late to be in on the deal?

No, you're not too late.

The deal has just begun for real. Now it's time to order your kit through a PM to member "A2-D2" at the German forum.

Let me know If you need more help.
 
Hello friends,

you can also write me a PN over A2OC.net. All you have to do is to copy and fill out this form:

---
First Name Last Name:
Street and No.:
Zip Code and City:
Email:
Phone No (optional):
Amount of anti roll bars:
Amount of Superpro bushings (optional):

Owner of the bank account you will pay from:

Shipping adress if it differs from the adress above:
---

After ive received this information, ill send you a email with my bank account number.

One Sway bar kit for 365EUR includes:
- 1 front anti roll bar
- 1 rear anti roll bar
- mounting stuff
- TÜV certificate
- shipping from germany to uk

Optional: You can order superpro bushings for the front anti roll bar for +15EUR. Note: Only one per anti roll bar kit.

Please dont hesitate to ask if you want to know something.

Greetings
A2-D2
 
I just wrote this one to Maso through PM. Maybe it will help you guys:


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Maso said:
I cant decide whether this is something that I would like to upgrade my A2 with. Reading a bit what argues as pros & cons but doesnt help much. You are very welcome to give me your opinion to what it can do for my A2 and me as a driver; pros & cons.

I understand your angle of view. Sad, but my english or Nuerne89s (hes very tough in this things) english is not good enough to discuss this on a very very technical level.

Maybe i can give you some movies that will do this job for me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_liGnV3PTiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTL7JIJJq14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9QKz4Ik4Qo

So, all in all, you will reduce body roll of your a2 when you corner around. The stearing will be much more direct.

If you install only a stiffer front sway bar, this will increase under stear and reduces the body roll ab bit. If you install only a stiffer rear sway bar, this will benefit overstear and will also reduce body stear a bit. If you install a stiffer front and a rear sway bar, it will reduce body roll a lot, but it depents on how much stiffer the new front and rear sway bar is in percentage, to rate the balance of to more understear or to more overstear.

Lets see what we do: The A2 comes with a stand alone sway bar of 18mm in the front. In the rear, theres no stand alone sway bar, but there is one. Its integrated in the twist-beam rear suspension.

What we do is to replace the front 18mm massive one with a 22mm massive one and install a additional massive one on the rear which is 25mm thick. If you think about it, we add more stiffnes of only 4mm more material to the front, but 25mm to the rear axis because we dont replace a rear arb in the rear, but we add one.

This will result in less body roll, a much more direct steering, but it will also benefit to more overstear, because we add percentual more stiffnes to the rear axis than to the front.
Lets assume that the set of front and rear ARB will increase the stiffnes in the front and in the rear percentual the same way, you will have not more understear, nor overstear, but still less body roll and more direct steering.

Manuel


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