Additional Key - programming problems - Help please

Birchall

Dick Chown Award 2016
Hi,

I am no stranger to VCDS and have paired keys in the past (always after swapping a CCCU) and I have managed to do it.

But now I am just trying to add a key I am failing miserably.

I have tried every different approach (and there are a few) but nothing !!

I even cleared all keys via VCDS (at least I thought I did) but I am unable to even do this (After I clear them (00 test, save) the original key still works and the measuring block shows 1101 on the key positions (group 007).

Fortunately my MANY attempts did not result in no key working, but it does indicate that I am not even able to clear the existing keys.

I am tempted to disconnect the battery for several minutes, but I am pretty sure that this will not fully clear the existing keys.

I followed the Ross Tech instructions to the letter (several times) when using the VCDS method and I have tried the other methods of using the main key in the ignition and the "new" key in the door lock etc. (again to the letter).

I don't like things like this defeating me, as I say, I have done it several times in the past, but only when a different CCCU has been plugged in as a swap.

By the way this is not related to any immobiliser pairing, I am aware of the process for that.

Help please!!!

Cheers
Steve B
 
Steve, you have my mobile number.
If you still haven't sorted the key programming issue, give me a call after 17H30 today and I'll guide you through the process.

blue skies
tony
 
Steve, you have my mobile number.
If you still haven't sorted the key programming issue, give me a call after 17H30 today and I'll guide you through the process.

blue skies
tony

Very kind of you Tony,

Thank you.

I will see how I get on.

Steve B
 
Hi,

An update.

There were two problems, firstly, it looks like the later model key I bought is not compatible even though it is the right MHZ (434), so I need to check it more closely.
The second problem was due to some instructions that I think were slightly wrong?

In the VCDS instructions for coding the keys it states

(The following is done after you have selected control function 46 "CCCU"
Then click on adaption
Then)

"Enter channel "01" (May be channel "21" in some Audi models). - It is 21 for the A2

[Read]

This will display the number of currently stored remotes in "Stored Value".
- Mine always displayed "0" as I think all A2s do?

Enter your total number of keys up to a maximum of 4(including any existing keys) in "New Value" - This is where the instructions are wrong. The "New Value" field is the POSITION of the key (out of the 4 positions) NOT the number of keys you want to code,
So instead of following those instructions, try this,
You use the "up" arrow to move to the position you want the key to be in (or type the number in (1 to 4) and then (without clicking test or save or anything) press the lock button on the key that you want to pair into that position then "save".
The instructions state that you should enter the total number of keys and that is not right. I could verify that it is wrong by clicking the up arrow to get to 1 then pressing the lock button on the key I would see "Recognised" appear in the field at the top.
I could then click the up arrow again (to number 2 for example) and when I pressed the lock button on the key, the field changed from "adjustment" to "recognised".
What happens then is if you click save it just saves the key position you have displayed at that point, not all of the others too.

So I would recommend trying the following, click on the up arrow to get the "1" (or key in "1"), the field will show "adjustment", press the lock on the key you want to pair first and the field will change to "recognised" click on save and then you have now paired the first key. Then use the up arrow to move to "2" and then press the lock button on the second key that you want to pair, when that changes to "recognised" you save that and then repeat for "3" and "4" saving each time. (if you want 4 keys that is
!!



So I managed to successfully pair a second key, but not the "later" key.

If you are having problems pairing a second key I would be interested to know if you too find that the instructions are not right and the ones I [proposed above work for you?

Thanks all for at least making me check that field value.

Steve B
 
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Hi,

So back to the later type of key.

I thought that if you buy a later model key that is 434 MHZ it should be possible to pair that to the A2?

Since the one I tried was a 434 MHZ and it will NOT pair, perhaps it is my CCU that is the problem?

I know (believe) that there were two different MHZ used on the A2 depending on the age of the car / type of CCCU, so could this be the cause?
(Mine is an "AF" I think)

I would normally just leave this to Sarge (he is closest to me) but I wanted to learn by trial and error (less error than trial, I had hoped).

Has anyone managed to get a later model key to work and any tips?

Cheers
Steve B
 
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Hi,

Just checked and I DO have the "Q" suffix CCCU which explains why it will not recognise my new style key.

A follow up question therefore beckons!!!

If I swap to an "AF" CCCU that would mean that my original key would stop working, but since I am changing keys that would surely be ok?

So if I buy an AF CCCU and swap it over I should then be able to pair the new shape key to it.

As for the immobiliser I have two options,
Option one would be to try and tease the immobiliser chip out of he old key and put it into the new key
For option two I have just ordered two new "virgin" immobiliser chips and I have the immobiliser PIN number, so I could program the chips to two new keys via VCDS.

I am favouring option 2, but if I don't break the chip in my current key then option 1 is the easiest, I will then have a working key and could play around with programming the new chip, for another key (now I have the PIN number of my immobiliser).

Steve B
 
This thread on CCCU supersessions may help - http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthrea...a-Q-cccu-and-the-AF-cccu&highlight=cccu+table

Can't find Sarge's thread but thought it said you needed a SKC (workshop code) to progress with immobiliser related mods

Cheers Spike

Hi Spike,

Thanks for the link (as usual).

It confirms my thinking and so I will be looking for an "AF" CCCU (I can use the later key, that will "talk" to the CCCU and give me the remote operation when paired). I will then have to resolve the immobiliser issue (which I do have options for).

I have the cable that interrogates the cluster and immobiliser (K-Can) and so I can get all of the info from it, I have the immobiliser code and a "login" code, so I am hoping that I have everything I need, but you may well be right. I don't mind trying though. (the Ross Tech instructions seem to indicate that I have everything I need)
I will try to get the immobiliser chip out without breaking it first, at least then I will have a working key while I play around with other keys.

Credit goes to Ross Tech for the majority of the above instructions!!
I just tried to translate / simplify them.

Steve B
 
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Hi,

SUCCESS!!!

I had a spare key that was not matched to the CCCU and I wanted to match it.
Tom (Timmus) had kindly had a key blade cut for me so I at least had the option of getting into the car if I needed to.
I managed to pair the remote operation of the locks using VCDS and doing the following

Existing key in the ignition and ignition ON
select control function 46 "CCCU"
Then click on "adaption - 10"
Then enter channel "21"
Click on [Read]
This will display the number of currently stored remotes in "Stored Value". - Mine always displayed "0" as I think all A2s do? so don't worry if yours shows zero too.
The instructions from Ross Tech state Enter your total number of keys up to a maximum of 4(including any existing keys) in "New Value" DON'T enter the total number of keys, instead enter the position that you want to code the key to (4 positions possible) so start with "1"
The field higher up should then show "Adjustment",
Press the lock button on the key that is in the ignition and the field near the top should change from "Adjustment" to "Recognised.
Click on "save" and the first key is linked to the remote operation of the locks
leave that key in the ignition and switched on.
Enter "2" in the new value field and the field near the top should read "Adjustment" again.
Press the lock on the second key that you want to match and the "Adjustment" should change to recognised and then click on save
Repeat this with "new Value" 3 (if you have a third key) to match press the lock on the third key, then click on "save"
Repeat again with "new value" 4 (if you have a fourth key), press lock on the fourth key, then click on save.

You have now matched the keys for remote operation.

Now the tricky bit, if the keys you have matched are not new they will have the previous immobiliser chip in them.
Unless you are very comfortable with VCDS and are very careful when retrieving data settings from your instrument cluster PLEASE don't risk playing with the important settings below.

You need to buy new chips I bought 2 from this seller http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Two-Audi-...482?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3392d5e922, £9.25 for two !!

Remove the old chip and replace it with the new chip. To do this you will need to prise out the little Audi logo and remove the screw and then separate the two halves of the key and then split the "key end" in two where they are joined and you should see something like the following immobiliser chip.jpg Remove the chip and insert the new one and reassemble the key.

To program the immobiliser chip you will need to know the login PIN of your instrument cluster, I managed to get mine by using a cable I bought on eBay (a VAG K+CAN Commander) such as this one for £14.99 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151041860027?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT (PLEASE check to see if this is a legitimate and not pirated cable, I can't confirm this, but I only bought mine to help a fellow member get the dump file that he needed for a problem he was having, not for commercial reasons)
You will need the free software "VAG Commander" and that will easily enable you to get the PIN number, the Login code will show at the bottom of he screen..
CAUTION, if you play around with this software it can disable your A2 and cause serious problems. So only ever use it to just read the data / login code, NEVER change any code or overwrite the files in the instrument cluster.
But as I say, I was able to use the cable and software to easily get my 4 digit login pin that I can then use on VCDS to program the immobiliser chip (amongst other things you can do if you have the login PIN)

Once you have your r character code you can program the immobiliser chip in your replacement keys with VCDS.

To do this via VCDS you need to do the following
put the first key in the ignition and turn the ignition on
place the other keys away from the column (passenger seat is fine)

select control module 17 -"instruments", select block 022 click "GO". if the value in field 3 is 0 then unfortunately the key/immobiliser in the ignition switch is not valid, if it is a 1 then you are fine. You can try this for each key you want to code but this step is optional.
The next bit is important, select block 024, you are hoping to see a zero in fields 1, 2 and 3. if there is a number other than zero you MUST not switch off the ignition until you have waited at LEAST the number of minutes shown in the fields.
Click "Done - go back"
N0w click on 11 - Login and enter your PIN but you must add a leading zero o make the PIN a 5 digit number - click on "do it"
you are now authorised to code the chips in the keys.
go to Adaption - 10 and then enter channel number 21 and the click on Read.
Enter the TOTAL NUMBER OF KEYS that you want to be able to use in the "New value" field
NEARLY THERE
Click on Save, then Done - Go back
The first key is now programmed, remove it and insert the second key and turn the ignition on, the second key is now programmed, repeat for the rest of the keys (if any) but you must do this for the exact number of keys that you entered in the "New value" field earlier.
This must be completed for all keys within 60 seconds !!!

Job done !!!!

I have used the exact process as listed here and so I know it works.

Unfortunately my new key came up with a status of 0 when checked and so I can't program the immobiliser on that one just yet.

But this is the first time I have managed to sort out an additional key that is now fully operational (for £20 in total, including the purchase of the cable!)
But £5 for the chip, £10 for a new blade and whatever you can pick up a used key for, is not bad.

If I manage to get the "new shape" key fob working I will let you know how.

Steve B
 
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Thanks for all those details Steve.

I am waiting on a used A2 key i bought, so i am wondering if i can program it to my car using the existing chip?

Or do i need to buy a new chip?

I only have one fully working key at the moment, but i have also ordered two brand new empty keys. (No electronics)
 
Thanks for all those details Steve.

I am waiting on a used A2 key i bought, so i am wondering if i can program it to my car using the existing chip?

Or do i need to buy a new chip?

I only have one fully working key at the moment, but i have also ordered two brand new empty keys. (No electronics)

If you are very lucky then you MIGHT be able to get the chip out without breaking it and then you can swap it to the new key.

Watch out though, because there are two types of standard key with different MHZ.

Even if you buy a new chip you would not be able to program it unless you can get your "login PIN" from your instrument cluster and that would mean buying the cable and installing the software I mention.

Steve B
 
Ok thanks.
Would i need the cable anyway to try and program the second keys chip?

To program the immobiliser chip via VCDS you need to locate the Login PIN and that can only be done by special software and the right cable.
To just pair the remote operation of the key, all you need is VCDS (there are also other ways of doing it without any cables at all, but they are a bit hit and miss)

But if you have a key that WAS working with the car before but has stopped working, all you have to do is put the key into the ignition, switch it on and press unlock and lock a couple of times and away you go!! (not that this is what you are asking about)

Steve B
 
A further update,

I managed to program the immobiliser chip on the new shape key !!!

The problem was that the key still had the old immobiliser chip in it and so that was clashing with the new blank chip.
But with the new style key, removing the chip is not so easy, it is part of the PCB and soldered in place (It is a thin oblong shaped chip that looks like it is part of the electronics). But I managed to scrape away the glue that held it in place and lever it off the board (also thereby disconnecting the contacts!!!!) SCARY but has resolved the problem. I now have a new shaped key that starts the car without any immobiliser problems.

BUT even with the AF CCCU fitted (thanks Taz) I can't get the key to pair with the remote functions.

While coding it via VCDS it does not "recognise" the key, it is almost like there is a problem with the key fob (I hope it isn't just a battery running down!)

So there is one final step and that should be the easiest, I need to pair the remote functions to the CCCU (normally very easy).

I will try a new battery and see what happens (I don't have a new battery to hand so I might swap one from one of the old fobs)

But I am super pleased to know that I can now program the immobiliser chips on new / used keys (with a new chip, if the key is a used one), I was pretty sure that only a dealer, or Sarge/Tony could do it and they are still my preferred option, I just wanted to master this, I like a challenge (and save myself a long round trip too!)

Steve B

Watch this space!
 
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Well done!

I may need some advice from you when i need to program my second key i just received today.

Just need to order the cable you mentioned.
 
Still no joy with the new shape remote!!
It fits the lock (thanks to the new blade), it starts and runs the car (thanks to the new immobiliser chip, now programmed to the car)
But I can't get it linked to the CCCU for the remote locking!!!

Tried a new battery (more as a final straw rather than thinking this would resolve it.)

I programmed the old style key several times just to check everything was ok, but when I try to get the CCCU to "Recognise" the new shape key it does seem to pick it up.

The new shape key is definitely a 434MHZ (it is printed on the side where the key folds into) so it should work, and the CCCU is an "AF" so there is not a lot else to change.
The light on the keyfob is operating when the buttons are pressed, so ir LOOKS like it is working but simply not recognised.

It is almost like the new shape key is a different MHZ to the CCCU??? Which it isn't. (Perhaps there are two types of new shape keys? The ones with the flip out key blade I mean) Perhaps the key is broken (hence why it was sold on eBay?)

So I will be experimenting further, I won't let it beat me, I have sorted everything else apart from the remote lock operation!!!!

Steve B
 
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