Information real mpg with TDi: is 50-60 the real deal, or 70 mpg are as easy to achieve?

SpaceTofu

Member
Hi there,

I am seriously considering the purchase of an Audi A2 TDi.
This will be my first car and I will be covering many miles over the course of the next year(s) (~20k p.y.); needles to say, the reason I was attracted to an A2 firstly is due to the high extra-urban mpg that it records, at least on the official (and unrealistic) figures; I then actually started to really love the design of it and now I am deeply in love with it!
To be remarked, consumption (and a not unlimited budget) have the priority over design; and my partner happiness needs to also be taken in consideration, and she is not liking the A2 at all.

Making more researches in this board, I am under the impression that the 80.2 figure is (of course) never reached by anyone here, rather on average most of you A2ers are in the ballpark of only 50-60 mpg.

But then, when I look at Spritmonitor.de
I see that the average fuel consumption (out of 447 samples) is 4.84L/100Km , which is 58 mpg. That's the plain average.
There is actually a good amount of drivers able to use only 3.9L/100km, meaning 72 mpg!! Not bad at all.

And then again, looking at Fuelly, no-one reaches the above 72 mpg which is reached by quite some users in Germany.

In short: is this A2 a blanket of wool over my eyes (in terms of mpg)? Can I achieve 72 mpg by driving on M road for 80% of it? Is it worthwhile for me to get in a row with my missus because we really need to save on gasoline and the A2 is the best choice?
Or shall we easily go for a Ford Fiesta, which rates at an average of 4.54L/100 km on SpritMonitor.de, which is 62 mpg and is matched by users on Fuelly reaching as high as 74 mpg?

I am quite scared to buy a car I have started to love and having simultaneously such high expectations in terms of mpg, to then be harshly confronted by a possible bitter truth.
Thank you for your help
 
We have only recently had our A2 TDI 75, but for what it's worth it is so far being the most fuel efficient real world car I have owned. 20% of our journey has been on dual carriage ways at 70mph, rest urban or local 40mph country roads lots of stop start and driven at normal traffic speeds with no view to trying to get the most mpg, plus pretty cold weather, lights on etc.

We have been getting 57mpg. This compares to the following cars over exactly same type of use.

Lexus CT200hybrid. 47mpg
Astra 1.7D Ecoflex. 46mpg
Ford Smax 1.8 D. 41mpg
Ford C-Max 1.6 petrol 33mpg
 
Here's my thoughts:

Driving style, mechanical condition, engine choice, model year, heavy options list, climate control or standard blower, number of occupants, wheels/tyres, day or night use, road surface condition, terrain geology, world location (for air pressure), wind speed, quality of fuel and aero options are some of the many factors that determine MPG.

I have a well-cared for 2002 TDi 75 with a 5 speed EWQ gearbox with a taller 5th gear that is remapped. I have a heavy car with many options, usually drive alone and in daylight hours, but always drive with the air conditioner and stereo on, headlights off unless required.
I run very heavy 17” wheels with quality branded tyres (Conti sport contact).
My journeys are usually from stone cold engine for 60 miles on a mix of road surfaces with a mainly flat terrain. I only use high quality fuel and use a 2 stroke oil/Redex mix in every fill-up. I have a 34 litre fuel tank and the aero options from the 1.2 TDi and also have the Votex body kit.
My car has the additional diesel heater (Webasto), which is used as necessary when outside temp is cold (+5 deg or lower).
I am an ex HGV heavy haulage driver, so I am used to reading road conditions well in advance of hazards, so have a driving style suited for fuel efficiency (if I can stand the boredom).
I do not adopt any hypermiling techniques.

If I’m “chilling” and driving the car like my wife was sitting beside me I can achieve:
67 mpg summer
58 mpg winter (with summer wheels) or 67mpg with 15” lightweight alloys.

If I want a spirited driving experience:
54mpg summer
54/60 mpg winter (use above wheel size).

Realistically, if your aim is to save money I am not sure why an old car would be the choice. To get good average mpg you will need to buy a good A2 that has been very well maintained, and you’ll need to keep up that level of maintenance too and maybe make improvements. If you are good on the spanners you can keep the labour costs down, but OE parts prices are expensive, and to get the best efficiency from the car your best off buying OE.
It'll be an old car, so will always need something doing to keep it tip-top.

Leaving the passion for a vehicle out of the equation and considering the financials, why not buy a quality ex-demonstrator almost new vehicle, have zero maintenance costs for several years and the comfort/efficiency of a new car.

I’d not change my car for anything else, but that’s only because I’m blinkered.

Cheers
Jeff
 
Do not confuse German clear roads with UK traffic jams. You do not know in advance and cannot know how good or bad the numbers will turn out to be. Where is the 80.2 figure from? That's a 3.5l/100km and I don't see that happening anywhere.

Realistically, you will *not* get 72mpg from an A2 at 70mph. I don't see how you'll get that from anything apart from an Insight. Which Fiesta? The diesel? If you're running cold starts and low speeds, forget it.

Spritmonitor attracts those who are interested in fuel and care about the numbers. I suspect the same of Fuelly, so any and either of these are probably slightly more positive than they might be. Also; if you're a new driver, you won't have the strategies available to you - early shifting, short shifting, even hypermiling - and to be honest, it's counterproductive to your safety to focus so much on the numbers.

As far as the Fiesta is concerned....we run two modern vehicles and a petrol A2. The A2's very long term average with light 15" wheels is 6.3l/100 and 6.6/100 when *full* across 6500km of Europe. Minimal traffic. The Fiesta we have is a 1.0 Ecoboost. That has official 4.2l/100km numbers and the current trip computer average is over 7l/100km. Admittedly mainly town work and cold starts, but still. It also doesn't lend itself to early shifts and is therefore far harder to drive economically than it might be. Massive gaps between gears and strange overall gearing make for an interesting drive experience.

The Octavia I currently drive is also a 1.0. That has official numbers of 4.6l/100 or so, and the best I've so far managed is around 5.3l/100km with absolutely zero traffic, low cruising speeds (50mph, not 60 or 75) and as soon as the temperature has dropped, the consumption has gone up. I can probably get near to 5l/100 with three people and a light load, on my absolutely zero traffic roads up here, but how on earth they can post 4.6, I do not know. That has a six-speed box and promotes early shifts (6th at 40 mph is possible if you're rolling right) and it suits my driving style nicely. Still, I'm a whole chunk below where I figured I could be, even though it's a big car.

Short version: stop focusing on the numbers. You will be disappointed. You don't have the skills yet and any car will be difficult to reach a promised number, whether that was from Spritmonitor, Fuelly or consumption cycles.

I'm in agreement with Mustang-owner that you'll need to maintain an A2 to just as high a standard as anything else. Consider a Fabia diesel, a Bluemotion Polo or a TDCI Fiesta if the fuel numbers are that important. A two-year old will be cheaper to run than an A2 and probably just as good if not better on fuel, too. Fiesta seats are an acquired taste....

- Bret
 
I run a 90 TDI and easily get 50 plus mpg without really trying. I do a 45 mile commute daily.

It is a well specced car with spare wheel, false floor, leather, A1 wheels with 215 wide michelin tyres, generally carrying some luggage, climate on, lights always on, MYP 6 speed gearbox etc, well maintained in my ownership.

I also have access to a 75 tdi which is sensationally good on fuel, no apparent reason! It runs on fumes and is well specced too so wont be a light car.

In short as with any car they will vary hugely. If you are handy with a spanner they are comparatively cheap to run IMHO. That said they are long in the tooth so always check a fully documented history. Stamped service books without paperwork are bordering on pointless as far too easy to make these up. As a competent DIY mechanic and with low risk of body corrosion they are a no brainer for me, I also have VCDS. Coupled with support on this owner forum you could do a lot worse.
 
Figures for my TDi 75 (without remap), new brakes, new suspension and newish 195 Dunlop eco sports if this helps:
Mid to high 50's on town commute (rush hour).
Motorways are low to mid 60's at 75mph.
Have managed 70.4 average MPG on long motorway run but cruise was set steadfastly at 70MPH all the way.
Fuel efficiency takes a big hit in cold weather - take about 5mpg off these figures.
 
If you look on my spritmonitor page you'll see I get 60mpg week in week out which includes my commute at about 50 - 60 mph along A and B roads in the country. Mine's a bog standard 1.4 tdi - running 17" in summer and 16" with winter tyres in the winter.

Recently did a nice long plod of 800 miles to Scotland and back and got over 70mpg.

It all depends on your driving style and environment but high figures are possible.

https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/detail/671545.html
 
Realistically, if your aim is to save money I am not sure why an old car would be the choice. To get good average mpg you will need to buy a good A2 that has been very well maintained, and you’ll need to keep up that level of maintenance too and maybe make improvements.

I’d not change my car for anything else, but that’s only because I’m blinkered.

I totally agree with Jeff. The A2 is a wonderful piece of engineering; I adore mine and wouldn't change it for anything else. However, if the ultimate goal is to spend as little on motoring as possible, it might not be the best choice. The very youngest A2s are now 11 years old and a vast majority of those that can be found for sale will have areas requiring attention.

I consider myself lucky because my love affair with the A2 started when a majority of those for sale were still in very good condition. Since then, besides not cleaning its exterior as often as I'd ideally like, I've treated it like a baby. I do loads of motorway miles every year and average 70mpg, with my personal best being 80.2mpg over the course of an entire tank of fuel. However, I've got a 6-speed gearbox, always cruise between 60 and 65mph, anticipate the road well ahead, have replaced all the wheel bearings, have made various other eco tweaks, etc, etc. The average A2 that you can buy won't return those figures.

That you're enthusiastic about the A2 is great. That your partner doesn't like them can only mean she's not yet appreciated their bold, timeless, avant garde styling. If you wish to own and cherish an A2, you'll receive all the support you need from the club and costs can be kept down by asking questions and taking advice. However, old cars - even those as reliable as the A2 TDI - inherently require attention and investment. A well-maintained A2 is still exceptionally fuel efficient when compared to cars that are 15 years younger, but I doubt a majority on offer are as financially efficient. That said, I don't know what your budget is. If you're going to be looking at vehicles that are 10 years old no matter what, then the A2 is a great choice. The TDI is incredibly reliable, the road tax costs 3000 pennies per year, you don't have to worry about the bodywork falling to bits, the overall build quality is high even by Audi standards, you get the benefits of its clever interior design (see http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?23946), etc, etc.

Cheers,

Tom
 
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Also bear in the mind the depreciation on a new or newish car, even with 20K miles per year the slight increase in MPG for a new car over what the A2 TDI will do will be lost 100 fold in the depreciation of the new car. Yes you will need to factor into the A2 the upkeep which I agree will be higher than a new car, well certainly for the first couple of years, but if you factor in the cost of buying a new car and the depreciation you will work out that a new car is never a financially sound decision.
 
I'm not convinced that depreciation on a two-year old is that bad, but it certainly needs to be factored into the total cost of ownership. Add in insurance and road tax, while you're at it, the cost of financing the car and then see just how much it eats.
We're currently on a PCP with the Octy and it makes a certain amount of sense, but the A2 has been incredibly cheap to run over the last few years. Much of that, though, is due to the fact that I've left certain things alone - like the rear door microswitch - which would cost me €100 to fix and several hours, but don't really bug me. Climate flaps are also on the way out (again), there's a minor "too lean" issue on Bank 1, the exhaust has started to blow and the right rear drum brake piston needs replacing. Along with the pipes and I ought to do the handbrake cables at the same time. None of these really affect the car's function, they are me being very specific about listing them. That's without any tyre replacements, the due service (including an air filter this time), that I ought to replace the cambelt and water pump again, the starter has a minor issue and I may well have a gearbox problem.
This is all on a reasonably maintained 2002, 180000km example. One of the reasons it's currently off the road is that I want time to fix these things as and when I can get around to it.... and not be under pressure to fix it NOW, either in -10 and snow, on a filthy €30 per hour rented ramp or for €60 per hour at a garage with someone who never sees A2s and doesn't care. So if we move house it will be taken apart and put back together again at my leisure - I want it working within a year or so, and do not need it tomorrow.

Things do go wrong on any car. The Fi was in the dealer's this week, Monday, because we'd been out to it a couple of times over the last week and it refused to start. It was only -10 or so, but it appears that cold soak and the "wrong" grease on the starter meant that the starter wouldn't turn. At some point it would... known problem, fixed under warranty, but it happened.

What are you trying to achieve? Cheap motoring? Compare insurance costs of a Petrol A2, TDI A2, and then a TDCI Fiesta. Add in a TDI Fabia for giggles.
Then work out what the London LEZ would mean for you and realise you might have to do a Petrol... (I would remove your Postcode from your location, it allows a way too accurate identification). It's not as simple as real-world consumption, the other costs can easily outweigh any benefits.

- Bret
 
I regularly get over 60mpg in my tdi90 and know for sure there are better figures for 75s. I have a few issues that I basically ignore, leaky exhaust flexipipe somewhere, binding rear caliper that I will fix this week. It has got steadily worse. 2 broken glowplugs. A Whiney gearbox in 4th/5th. it makes no sense to get another newer car that I can only get 70mpg out of (bmw 1series 116d) is one that I regularly look at on Autotrader. I do 70 miles a day, 50/50 traffic/motorway, I'm not a granddad , but a steady 65-70 I find is comfortable. There's no real reason to go any faster, for the sake of a few minutes off my journey time.

My fuelly figures are accurate for both my cars.

Edit and the A2 is now @185000 miles
 
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we have a polo TDi 1.4 and it averages 60+ and 75 mpg on a run at 60-80,has 65k miles on it
A roads 45-55 is about 80-83 if you hyper mile.
just be aware that these have a dpf unlike the A2 Indeed Im going to probably have to sell the Polo as her indoors has just got a job in town rather than out in the sticks and
taking it very hard that petrol versions of anything including ecoboosts,TSI's or even the Mazda 2 normally aspirated engine will only give 45-50 mpg
 
Firstly, let me thank you all for your inputs, wasn't expecting this amount of replies.

I will try to cover swiftly all of the witty points that you brought up.
I agree that
Mustang-owner said:
Driving style, mechanical condition, engine choice, model year, heavy options list, climate control or standard blower, number of occupants, wheels/tyres, day or night use, road surface condition, terrain geology, world location (for air pressure), wind speed, quality of fuel and aero options are some of the many factors that determine MPG
although some factors have definitely a lower weight than others.
My main worry is that I see fantastic figures in Spritmonitor.de, whereas in Fuelly I see OK figures; and if I eventually get the A2, I would be massively disappointed (fuel consumption-wise).

True, as someone mentioned, that SM.de attracts a certain audience of gasoline-savers, but the same can be said for Fuelly I suppose. I imagine that air pressure and quality of fuel are very much specific to certain areas, but again, the gap between Germany and UK seems to be 10mpg, pretty high in my books.
bretti_kivi said:
Do not confuse German clear roads with UK traffic jams.
I personally disagree slightly. I don't think the difference is so pronounced, I experience quite some nice traffic when driving in DE.

Mustang-owner said:
if your aim is to save money I am not sure why an old car would be the choice. To get good average mpg you will need to buy a good A2 that has been very well maintained, and you’ll need to keep up that level of maintenance too and maybe make improvements.
I was under the impression that as long as the car is in decent conditions to begin with, if I change the oil and check tyre pressure regularly, I can achieve a desirable MPG regardless of the history of the vehicle? What am I overlooking?

When I was mentioning the Fiesta, I was referring to the new (not so new anymore) Fiesta TDCi ECOnetic.
And, as it was not clear in my introduction message, albeit I have never owned a car, I have a decent car driving history (10y).

I think one of the point which came up in this thread and it is definitely important for me here and now is: is it widely accepted that an A2 would require a more constant level of maintenance than a 5y old Fiesta TDCi ECOnetic? Can you estimate what is the level of effort and money and time you put into your A2s in a given year? Although I have the interest, I fear I won't have time to dedicate myself to it, not at the beginning surely.

timmus said:
I totally agree with Jeff. The A2 is a wonderful piece of engineering; I adore mine and wouldn't change it for anything else. However, if the ultimate goal is to spend as little on motoring as possible, it might not be the best choice. The very youngest A2s are now 11 years old and a vast majority of those that can be found for sale will have areas requiring attention.
Didin't give much thought to this, or better, I was under the impression that A2s are very, very reliable cars, and that require really minimal maintenance.
Yes, gasoline is not the only bit (although the most important considering how many miles we'll do), therefore maybe I should really stick to a newer car and be a boring Fiesta driver.

To end it with (and replying ot the further comment of bretti_kivi), I want to achieve cheap motoring; seeing the number of miles done I was focusing on mpg preponderantly.

KekseKaempfer said:
I have a few issues that I basically ignore, leaky exhaust flexipipe somewhere, binding rear caliper that I will fix this week. It has got steadily worse. 2 broken glowplugs. A Whiney gearbox in 4th/5th. it makes no sense to get another newer car that I can only get 70mpg out of (bmw 1series 116d) is one that I regularly look at on Autotrader.
I was also eyeing BMW series 1 , too expensive for my pockets unfortunately.
 
I have a 30 mile commute and during warm weather achieve 70-75 mpg quite easily. During winter this drops down to mid to high 60s. I'm mostly on A roads or dual carriageways at about 50-55mph. When I had a short 10 mile commute I was getting low to mid 60s mpg, dropping to 55-60 during winter.

As for maintenance in the two years I've had my A2, apart from a couple of small issues when I first got it, it hasn't needed anything more than normal servicing and maintenance.

Tim
 
i managed 63 mpg driving from burton on trent to crawley in my mk4 150tdi mapped to 197bhp following lorries around 55 mph
 
@SpaceTofu, you ask some naive questions about condition and servicing of an eleven-plus year old A2: unless you buy a one or two owner car you might know very little about the car's history ... you will simply know what the last owner told you.
My car was five years old when I bought it. I have owned it for seven years and there have been no surprises. Unfortunately there are no longer five year old A2s available.
bretti_kivi has explained that his own car is in need of quite a few basic servicing items; presumably he was planning to replace it with the Skoda and has explained it wasn't worth the time/spend to fix those faults (... just yet)
Many people selling a car will have scrimped on servicing/repair once the sale becomes more likely. How likely are those sellers to share that information with the prospective buyer?
If you buy an eleven/fifteen year old car and it has been meticulously maintained up until the point of sale, then you will be fortunate and your assumptions can stand up

Andrew
 
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I agree with Andrew about the older the car gets often the maintenance becomes reactive to fix problems rather than preventative, just look at the MOT history of some cars and see continuous advisory notices that never get fixed and you will see the seller advertising as well maintained.

I have normally bought new or almost new cars but with many latest cars becoming boring and depreciation a real killer, I have started to buy older but factor in £1k to the purchase price to fix lots of bits that the previous owner has missed, just in case. My 2003 TT bought with just 50k on clock in summer had full documented history but most was by independent garage so I have had the cambelt, water pump and serviced again even though on paper didn't need it. for my A2 it came with a massive file of £6k of invoices from Audi dealer ignoring servicing which was paid for on a plan but these are very rare finds I think today. The temptation of paying a small price for the A2 is that you seem to struggle justifying spending £3-£400 pa on servicing and preventative maintenance, but I just compare it to depreciation on a new car which can easily be that a month.

Back on topic though, I am impressed by some of the MPG returns people are getting, I can feel a challenge to come on to get mine better.
 
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@LordTJC: your contribution is quite reassuring, though I will be doing more something on the range of 60/70 mph on M roads. Indeed regarding your level of maintenance, that is what I expect the A2 to be needing, thanks!

@ecoangel: the A2 3L is a dream; was eyeing some in Germany, but basically impossible to read here, I read? And a pain in the back in case they need servicing, as they have quite a number of proprietary parts, I read?

@andrewparkeruk (and Rich2508): I am on this board indeed to be challenged about my naive questions. And overall agree with you that the older a car gets and the closer to sale said car is, maintenance from the owner side is very likely to decline.

BUT:
1. I always thought that being the A2 quite an uncommon car, people who owns it owns it because they love it and not because they just need a car (this same thought is the same thought that makes me steer away from Fiestas).
If people love something, they tend to give it a certain amount of care, even if they plan to get rid of it. Love is unconditional

2. By looking at the online MOT histories of A2, Fiesta, BMW 1 serie, the MOT reports of the A2 (albeit it is the oldest car of the lot) tend to look much, much better. This gives me quite some confidence that the A2 is either (or both) a car which needs little care to go a long way or that is generally well looked after because owners own it due to love
 
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