What clutch and gearbox problems for 1.2 TDI?

G

Gaff

Guest
I'm considering the purchase of a 3L 1.2 TDI so have been following the German second hand market. I noticed a few adverts that give details of expensive repairs relating to gearbox and/or clutch at surprisingly low mileage (100,000 km).

Why should the 3L TDI eat clutches, gates(!?), and gearboxes?
Have the two UK owned 3L cars continued to be reliable? What mileage now?

GA
 
Hi Gaff
I don't know a lot about the 3L TDI but I am aware the transmission is unique to this model and the gearbox is semi-automatic with an electronically operated clutch. Hopefully the two 3L owners will see your mail and provide a better explanation

Cheers Spike
 
Reliability 1.2 TDI

Car bought new in Aug 2005 from Berlin and personal import. UK homol and reg completed Sept 2005, since then I've covered 61k mls. No 'box or clutch issues.

Tailgate latch @ 9k mls
Wheel brg NSF @ 28k mls
Tyres 46k mls
Discs (precautionary) and pads @ 58k mls

plus an unresplved Can Bus issue (most probably u/s instrument cluster) since about 40k mls - has no effect on car use, but blanks out DIS if radio on before car started.

So, apart from consumables nothing other than a tailgate catch and wheel bearing (covered by warranty). Reliability and warranty claims better than my 2001 1.4TDI. I have paid for another 12 mths Audi (Mondial) warranty though.......£1200 for 3 injectors @ circa 80k mls on my 1.4TDI was a shock!

I'd buy another 1.2 TDI................especially since 86gm/km and circa 86 mpg over 61k mls is rather special.

Ciao,

Erling
 
Car bought new in Aug 2005 from Berlin and personal import. UK homol and reg completed Sept 2005, since then I've covered 61k mls. No 'box or clutch issues.

..//..
I'd buy another 1.2 TDI................especially since 86gm/km and circa 86 mpg over 61k mls is rather special.

Ciao,

Erling

Hi Earling,

Thanks for the details. I put a deposit on one today, a few years older than yours but lower mileage. Owners manual says its A2 TDI 1.2 R3. It has aircon and power steering.

GA
 
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I JUST bought an a2 1.2tdi 3l from germany and actually picked it up yesterday!

As for the transmission, I've noticed that some have problems and some don't, maybe it depends on how you drive it? in the records for the car I just bought the previous owner just replaced the clutch in the transmission with 102,000km's.

Kevin
 
We also have a 1.2TDI bought in Germany in August but so far I have only driven it from there to the UK. We also have two Lupo 3L's (same engine/clutch/gearbox), one of which has now done 131,000 km from new without any clutch or gearbox issues. Judging by the jerkiness of the drive take-up, clutch slippage is minimal, so clutch life may be greater than on other A2's/Lupo's. Having said that I have never managed to wear out a clutch on any car, so it may be how you drive!

RAB
 
..//.. Judging by the jerkiness of the drive take-up, clutch slippage is minimal, so clutch life may be greater than on other A2's/Lupo's. Having said that I have never managed to wear out a clutch on any car, so it may be how you drive!

RAB

Hi Rab,

I presume the clutch has to be slipped for situations like starting off/reversing/decelerating for roundabout. There is also audible clutch slippage between gears when my A2 is accelerating hard (foot down constantly) that maybe I can learn to avoid.

GA
 
Hi GA,

The only control you have over the clutch is with the accelerator, i.e. very little. I'm not sure it should slip under acceleration though. The clutch and gearbox (apart from the ratios) are standard manual parts, it's just that the (external) controls are operated hydraulically instead of by you! Therefore lifetime should not be an issue.

Regards

RAB
 
There are a few horror sories out there regarding both Lupo 3L and A2 1.2 TDI gbox. Main problem is the gangsteller - hydraulic system.

It has some weak seals and the pipes can chaff once plastic clip breaks so all pressure is lost leaving you in one gear before stalling at a junction.

Also the electronics can play up leaving you stranded like I was once on a busy road late for a funeral.

Even heard of one guy in Germany stuck on a railway crossing !

It's usually a small selector switch under the gear stick.

With no real replacement in site this side of a Loremo I've even considered getting a manual box with a clutch set up specially made should I keep the car for another 5 years.

Other than this weakness the car is (IMHO) the best A2 by a long shot and much closer to original concept of a fuel efficient machine.

Funny it's taken BMW/MINI so long to catch up with 1999 Lupo/A2 stop start system.

Now where the elsbett catalogue - if my injectors go then I'll buy some Elsbett ones especially as GB has finally promised we can make tax free Bio Diesel (up to 2500 ltrs/year).........
 
Is this normal: clutch electric pump running for 30 seconds

Since I purchased my car, I've noticed the hydraulic pump running for longer and longer each morning (from the moment I open one of the cars front doors). It could be that I never noticed it before, but I'd swear that it was only a few seconds at the beginning. The car hasn't had an Audi service in 2 years!

Other possible causes could be a battery in poor shape, perhaps becoming more noticeable with temperatures dropping from 15 degrees to -4 C. Certainly haven't been getting any stop/start moments this week (this is an automatic feature that I'd replace with a simple button "stop now!" if I could redesign the car).


GA
 
Gaff

It will run for something like 20, 25 secs to top up the pressure. The less pressure in the reservoir, the longer it will run from start-up. If the car has been standing overnight, this will be longer than a few seconds. Gears are not engaged or engine will not start until there is sufficient pressure. The motor will start as soon as you open the driver's door. Stop/start does not function if the ambient temperature is below about 5°C.

RAB
 
Hi RAB

I think the hydraulic system includes a reservoir or 'sphere' which stores fluid under pressure. This incorporates a diaphragm with pressurised gas on one side and oil under pressure on the other. Over time the diaphragm leaks and the reservoir gradually looses its ability to store fluid at the required pressure (my previous quattro had one for the braking system) which is why the pump will be working overtime whenever the car is left for a while.
I think Ecoangel had a similar problem with his A2 but am not sure if he got it fixed or just lived with it.

Cheers Spike
 
Spike,

The accumulator and reservoir are separate. The accumulator is a sturdy steel spherical container for holding the pressurised fluid from the pump - it only has one entry/exit. The reservoir is a plastic container. The gearbox actuators are hydraullically operated. I do not think there is any diaphragm - there certainly is not one in the accumulator. Some braking systems use air pressure over liquid, which probably uses a diaphragm as you would not want air in your brake fluid but the pressures are probably a lot lower. Since you cannot compress a liquid, a small flow of liquid will lead to a much larger loss of pressure than would be the case with a gas.

Regards

RAB
 
Spike,

On second thoughts there is probably a diaphragm or bellows across the centre of the accumulator with a sealed chamber above filled with inert gas, otherwise, since you cannot compress a liquid, it would not act as an accumulator.

RAB
 
Hi RAB
The link shows the braking system hydraulic accumulator used on my previous Audi. The connections are probably a little more complex than the A2 installation but the principal is the same and as you say, allows a volume of fluid to be stored under pressure.
http://20v.org/brakprob.htm#bomb
Maybe the German A2oc or Lupo OC sites may have more info which could confirm, or otherwise, if this is the cause of your problem

Cheers Spike
 
Hi RAB
The link shows the braking system hydraulic accumulator used on my previous Audi. The connections are probably a little more complex than the A2 installation but the principal is the same and as you say, allows a volume of fluid to be stored under pressure.
http://20v.org/brakprob.htm#bomb
Maybe the German A2oc or Lupo OC sites may have more info which could confirm, or otherwise, if this is the cause of your problem

Cheers Spike

Thanks a lot Spike. You've helped me understand the system. As setting the clutch is an Audi-only job because of the computer diagnostics, I'll get them to service the clutch, and to see what they recommend.

GA
 
Most common fault gbox 1.2TDI

Hydraulic leak occurs when metal clip holding the 2 main hydraulic hoses breaks and the pipes are then free to move around. This causes metal chaffing at joints so leakage occurs eventually draing the resevoir and you get stuck in the last gear you were in.

Simply replace the hoses and clip
 
Spike,

It is similar but the other way up. The inert gas (nitrogen?) will slowly permeate through the diaphragm with time. For that reason I think the expected lifetime is about seven years.

RAB
 
It's a lot simpler than the brake servo one. Also a replacement canister is very cheap but unlikely to be your problem. Check for hydraulic fluild leak as posted above.
 
It's a lot simpler than the brake servo one. Also a replacement canister is very cheap but unlikely to be your problem. Check for hydraulic fluild leak as posted above.

Hello.

I have a audi a2 1.2 tdi that are starting to have some problems. When I bought it one year ago I made that test to check how many gears i could change before earing the pressure motor and it was normal (about 7 gear changes).

Today when making a steering alignment I noticed a loss of fluid that ccome from the gearbox so I made that tes again... and every 3 gearchanges the pressure pump starts again!! So I have a leakage...

Any idea how I can solve this problem? Can I top up the system with hydraulic fluid (I don't want to stay on the road..)?

Thanks
 
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