1.4 Diesel VS 1.4 Petrol?!

Hello everyone

I've been digging trough the forum, and can't find and exact answer to this question.

How much better is the fuel comsumption of the 1.4 Diesel versus the petrol version.

More especifically, A2 1.4 SE vs. A2 1.4 TDI SE

I started wondering as I've been looking to buy, at there's some sweet deals on 1.4 SE petrol, much cheaper and easier to find with all the goodies I've been looking forward to. OpenSky, SportsSeats, etc...

It would be great if you could give me an overall idea of the Advantages and Disadvantages of each.
Also, is there's anything else, that the 1.4 Diesel has better over the Petrol. As in Drivablity, engine duration, etc..?!

Many thanks once again

You'll get wildly fluctuating answers for economy of the petrol and diesel versions of the A2, but a rough guide would be petrol: 35-40mpg, diesel: 45-60mpg

The main advantage of the diesel though, in my humble opinion, is the sheer oomph of the engine. That turbo does really help when it comes to the driveability of the car and also the smile factor!!

I am biased though, owning a TDi 90 (alright, it's nearer to a TDi 130).

Cheers,

Mike

Diesel v Petrol

The Diesel v Petrol debate will continue for may years to come, but in addition to the better fuel economy, the road tax disc (in the UK) for the diesel is only £35.00 per year and their is a strong possiblity that the diesel (later Euro4 compliant models at least) will be excempt from the revised London congestion charge due next year.
Then, as Skipton says, the smile factor of feeling the torque when the turbo starts working is much more rewarding then the petrol 1.4 models. Put simply, petrol engines need revs to perform, while Diesels use torque at lower revs to perform. In athletetics, Petrol is the 100m sprinter, while Diesel is the marathon runner. Which is better, that is up to you.
GBMSU

Hi peterevans
If the A2 may be your first diesel car then you really need to drive both engine types before deciding. Diesels do sound a bit agricultural at start up and at slow speeds while the petrol engine is extremely quiet. It never bothered me but some people just can't live with it. Once above about 40 mph then both cars are very civilised.

Petrol Pros
----------
Cheaper to buy, Engine quiet at low speeds, No risk of putting the wrong fuel in if you have always owned petrol cars.
And Cons
---------
Owners report the engine can be very sluggish when accelerating from standstill, particularly when the aircon is switched on. Ignition coils are a known problem - many owners have had them replaced free, even out of warranty. Some owners report problems with engine management warning lamp faults which are difficult to diagnose- very annoying but usually they dont affect engine performance.
Whatever your driving style you'r likely to get 30% better fuel economy out of the diesel.

Diesel pros
-----------
Probably holds its value better, Lower car tax (nice but not a key factor in the overall cost of car ownership) Better fuel economy, Better drivability and mid range accleleration, Easy to chip for better performance (like all turbo engines)
And Cons
----------
More expensive to buy, Engine noise at slow speeds, More to go wrong (turbo and injection system) A few owners have reported turbo problems. Some models use a dual mass flywheel (I think only the 90TDi has this) which is expensive to fix. Accidently filling up with petrol can be an expensive mistake.

Cheers Spike

another pro for the diesel, you can easily inprove performance with any of the many chipping solutions out there, CCC Tech & Stealth Racing amongst the most popular it seems, also the A2 has a huge loading capacity (greater than the golf for instance) if like me you go camping or carry heavy loads the diesel won't notice, the petrol however when loaded up might struggle to pull the skin of the proverbial rice pudding!

Wow thanks a lot.

@Skipton
First of after reading post after post in this forums, I think you should be decleared the Guru of the A2. You answers always straight to the point and very clear.
The difference in the MPG, you mention is very significant, and the turbo, even though the name says it (TDI), i didn't quite realize that it was that sweet to have it, I thought that it was more of a gente push, but from what GBMSU says about the torque, I am starting to see it as a big plus.

@Spike
Thanks a million for the steps by step good vs evil, really helpfull.
I didn't know that the AC had such an impact on the engine, on petrol.
Also, I am curious to know how loud can the diesel engine be at low speeds, I've heard about it before, but is it really that bad, isn't the same noise level that a Fiat punto diesel would do for example . If so that's pretty managable.
I didn't quite understand about the Dual Mass Flywheel? Would you explain it a bit further, if you don't mind.

@TdiMan
It sounds as though the petrol engine, it's really crap on the pulling side of things, it has put me a bit off it.

Thanks a lot for the help, if anyone else has anymore good or bad points to make I would be super glad to hear them.

peterevans said:

Wow thanks a lot.

@Skipton
First of after reading post after post in this forums, I think you should be decleared the Guru of the A2. You answers always straight to the point and very clear.

Click to expand...

That'll be the Yorkshireman in me then!

Cheers,

Mike

I think you will need to drive both back to back to get a true idea of what is best for you.

For what it's worth (I have a 1.4SE petrol)...

Fuel economy - the petrol is an economical car (but as the figures show the diesel is a bit more so). You will need to assess your annual mileage and type of driving to see if this is important to you. Please take into account additional capital outlay for a diesel, lower road tax, depreciation etc.etc. I'm guessing you should recoup the outlay cost within a couple of years based on savings in fuel and road tax.

Performance - I have driven many cars over the years, and amongst others I currently own a BMW M5. The petrol is not a rocket, but fine handling and brakes will allow you to bowl along very nicely with go cart handling. Again it will be down to the type of driving you do. The diesel will without doubt have more low down torque.

Chipping - well, you have already paid more for your diesel (to give you better performance and economy), and now you could spend several hundred pounds more to chip it to make it faster (I know it's supposed to improve economy, but I'm sure with the extra oomph will come the urge to use it more often and negate this effect)

I don't know the answer for you, but for me (well my wife), size, nippyness, good economy, safety, style, price, and space, were the most important criteria for the purchase. All of these could be satisfied by the petrol model, so we went for that. The other bonus being greater choice of cars available and lower purchase price.

As a parting shot, it's been one of the most unreliable cars we have owned, but mostly through issues which are common to both the petrol and diesel.

Good luck deciding!

monkeyfinger said:

Chipping - well, you have already paid more for your diesel (to give you better performance and economy), and now you could spend several hundred pounds more to chip it to make it faster (I know it's supposed to improve economy, but I'm sure with the extra oomph will come the urge to use it more often and negate this effect)

Click to expand...

We have a TDI75 and haven't really felt the need to rush out and chip it - it pulls well enough as it is! Never embarrases on the open road. And we too have something faster in the garage to compare it with...

Found Audi A2 1.4TDi Sport

Thanks to everyone for the enlightenment.
Really apreciated the help.

This morning I visited a dealer that had the best deal I've seen in the few months that I've been looking.

Here's the specs:
Audi A2 1.4TDi Sport 2003
83,000 miles, Metallic Black.
17" Alloy wheels, Computer, Driver airbag, Electric mirrors, Electric windows, Foglights, Electrically adjustable seats, Head restraints, Lumbar support, Immobiliser, Passenger airbag, Power assisted steering, Remote locking, Side airbags, Audi Concert Radio, Rear headrests, Sports seats, Traction control. Insurance Group:6, RECENT NEW CAMBELT CHANGE LONG MOT TAXED VERY ECONOMICAL
£5,896.

Very similar on looks to A2DK's:
http://www.a2oc.net/pictures/showphoto.php?photo=707&size=big&cat=500&ppuser=2514

The milage it quite high but it drives great, I haven't check the service history very well.
Could you please give me your feedback on what do you think?!

I would greatly appreciated.

3L/100km or 94MPG version:

If you can live with LHD and want all the fun of the 1.4TDI but want to pay Gordon Brown even less then import a 1.2 TDI - they are the ultimate eco machines!

94mpg, 81g/km CO2, and nicer handling than wide tyred and heavier front end 1.4 models provided you go for power steering option. ZERO road tax and can run on RME bio diesel.

The all aluminium engine block weighs 100kg which for a diesel is a miracle. It is also has the highest thermodynamic combustion efficiency of any production road car diesel engine.

There are now 4 in the UK and hold their value extremely well. In Germany s/h prices have gone crazy due to new emphasis on CO2 emissions. Was offered £8k for my 2001 (85000mile) model a couple of months back.

Eco angel

Thanks a lot for the reply

I always thought that imports where really expensive,as you have to pay more for the insurance, and I think it must be kind of confusing to drive the other way around everybody else? How do you find it?

How much did you pay for the whole import process? I am just curious cause I totally ruled out that option, but now that you mention it, that 1.2 option sounds sweet.
I ended up buying, a 1.4 TDI sport, because of the same reason you mentioned, economy and performance. It seems that the 1.2 it's even better at economy, how does it stack up in relation to the performance?

Cheers

Holy thread revival Batman

As a diesel / petrol owner what do you think of the driving experience differences?

I have both and wondering which to keep. The petrol is so much quieter and feels smoother but the 15mpg difference is quite an advantage.

The petrol seems so much tourqier (sp) with a lot less gear changes.

The toys are similar in both cars - but really disappointed with the noise. Is it just me?

oneflewover said:

Holy thread revival Batman

As a diesel / petrol owner what do you think of the driving experience differences?

I have both and wondering which to keep. The petrol is so much quieter and feels smoother but the 15mpg difference is quite an advantage.

The petrol seems so much tourqier (sp) with a lot less gear changes.

The toys are similar in both cars - but really disappointed with the noise. Is it just me?

Click to expand...

I have to be open and honest, I am a huge fan of both options but with a leaning towards the TDI.

The extra strength of the Diesel Engine and (from my own personal experience over 15 years) amazing reliability, wins it for me.

The extra economy is a plus, but the petrol engines are not that thirsty either.

The performance difference is not huge, but they have very different driving styles.
With the petrol you hang on to the gear taking the revs near to the maximum and she flies.
Do the same with the TDI and it will be slower. The trick with the TDI is to change up earlier and use the torque to the full.
So I wouldn't separate them on performance.

Noise on a TDI? What noise? There is a quite pleasing SOUND, that you really get used to, it just seems to indicate strength to me.
Yes, from the outside of a TDI it sounds like noise, but from the inside it is (to me) a pleasant and certainly not intrusive sound.

One significant advantage that many people often overlook is that, it is VERY difficult to stall a tdi, it is quite easy to stall a petrol A2.
This is amplified if you are used to a TDI and then switch to a petrol A2. If you are going the other way around you may not notice that difference because you have developed a style of driving the petrol that works.

Young drivers using an A2 as a first car will find the TDI much easier to learn in because it is harder to stall.

So to me,

The improved reliability, engine strength, masses of torque, slightly better MPG and a more relaxed driving style (lower revs and brute force) gives the TDI the edge to me.
Having said that it was great fun to drive a fully sorted FSI, just holding on to the revs make you feel like you are going quicker, and the fact that when I pulled up at lights I could not tell if the engine was still running or not, was great.

So just my opinion.

Steve B

I found it very easy to stall the 1.4 petrol, especially on hills. It's quite an uncivilized thing to drive as you end up having to rev it quite a bit just to get going.
The 1.6 does not have this issue and is far easier to drive at low speeds. I never stall it unless I do something stupid.

I've had a 1.4 TDI SE and now have a 1.4 Petrol SE.
You can see the consumption on both by clicking on my fuelly link below. The 1.4 TDI was remapped by the previous owner so I don't know what a standard TDI would return mileage wise.
Have to agree about the stalling, the petrol is very easy to stall, much to my wife's frustration.
I like both of them for different reasons, the TDI for the extra power, the petrol for the lighter front end feel, it's a lot more fun in nipping around town with it IMO.
Downside for the 1.4 petrol is that it is a little slow when you're in a rush.
Have you considered a 1.6 FSI? They're supposed to be more economical than the 1.4 (different engine tech) and they have a lot more power, I've never driven one though so I don't know how they compare to the diesels.

My A2 was my first diesel and I almost got killed within hours of getting it as I pulled out onto a roundabout with a big lorry coming around the roundabout. In my old petrol car I would easily have accelerated out but the diesel was so sluggish setting off. Anyway, live to tell the tale and I soon got used to the diesel.

But I did get it remapped as I felt it could do with a bit more go for overtaking, though opportunities for overtaking nowadays seem slimmer (or maybe I'm in less of a hurry or there are less slow coaches on the road).

In 10 years it has proved extremely reliable but then I've never had a Audi before.

I do worry sometimes when the car in front is a diesel and blenching out black smoke - I wonder if mine is doing that as well. With the latest dieselgate fiasco I will probably think twice about another diesel, but having got the A2 I hope it lasts me a good more years.

Driving both don't really have an issue with the overall power of either and neither wife or I have had problems stalling with the petrol.

The issue is the differing driving behaviours and that noise.

The reliability issue or none issue is a bit worrying more so with the petrol than diesel.

The TDI is much torquier, and had the usual diesel turbo diesel character : a more pleasant response when flooring the gas pedal, without dropping one (or two) gears.
The diesel is more economical, or, at least, has a lower fuel consumption. All depends of the fuel price... we'll see in how diesel vs petrol price will go in the future...
The TDI is very reliable, and is very common amonst the VAG range of small cars. (actually, just the opposite of the FSI for both assumptions)

TDI's are more expensive to buy (and to maintain, to some extend). Worth the premium (on a pure economical base) ? It depends on the annual mileage...

The TDI engine is much heavier than the 1.4 petrol : the front axle is more loaded, hence a less neutral handling ; the FSI is in-between (closer from the TDI than from the 1.4 petrol, though).
The 1.4 petrol is nice to drive : the light and silent engine, mated to a gearbox with gears perfectly spaced and pleasant to use, is just adequate for the light A2, especially when driving in town. Indeed, it's more prone to stalling, but that's an habit...

The FSI engine is heavier the 1.4 petrol but that's really a different beast : power, torque and performance are really much higher... the opposite of the fuel consumption that is not higher, if not lower sometimes. On top of that, the noise of the engine is quite pleasant... but higher that the discrete 1.4 petrol.
However, the reliability of the FSI engine is poor (first generation of FSI technology : Audi refined it later), and, being a rare engine, it's difficult to find a competent technician

I think the 1.4 petrol is the engine the suits the best the "lightweight" spirit of the A2, when the FSI suits the best the "high-tech and premium" spirit of the A2. The high-priced 1.2 TDI ticks both "lightweight" and "high-tech" cases , but is not absent from reliability issues aswell, and being even more rare and complicated than the FSI , it's probably even more difficult to have it well fixed.
So, the 1.4 TDI is in the end the best choice ? That makes sense...
Emissions issues aside. Although I suspect the FSI's in real life is not that great re. NOx emissions. NOx trap is not the best technology, especially from 13 years ago, and especially on cars with the EML light all the time...