What speed at 2000rpm in 5th?

140mph

But really, I'll check tomorrow and let you know what it does.

There is a small variance between boxes - I know that when I switched from the TDi 75 to my current 90, the gearing is very slightly longer.

This is slight though, maybe a difference of 200rpm at 70mph. The gearing of the Bluemotion is indeed longer and if the same were applied to the A2, we'd all see similar benefits, especially on fast A and motorway journeys.

I have seriously looked into having a gearbox transplant, like has been done in Germany, but the costs are prohibitive - around £2000 for the gearbox alone plus modding and fitting, so I'd really have to rack up the miles to recoup the £3-3.5k outlay!

Cheers,

Mike

If Audi still made the A2, I wonder if they would have put the Bluemotion gearbox in the A2 and what the results would have been?

I also wonder what would be the optimum gearbox? One of the forthcoming 7 speed DSG boxes perhaps? Lighting fast gear changes and enough gears to keep the engine spinning at optimum revs?

John.

mike, you can just get a new pair of cogs? ... see http://www.a2-freun.de/forum/showthread.php?t=23805. Costs are around £200.

Search over there for "gangpaar", there are lots of ideas and thoughts, numbers and calculations. Petrols can't have it and keep cruise, otherwise mine would be on the list.

Bret

The 1.6FSI has the lowest gearing (ie more engine revs for a given speed) followed by the 1.4 petrol (due to a small differance in the final drive ratio).
Then comes the 1.4TDI75, followed by the 1.4TDI90 (both diesels share the same final drive but have different gearbox ratios - except for reverse which is the same).
Finally comes the 1.2TDI which has the highest gearing of all the A2 models. Both the final drive and gearbox ratios are higher then the 1.4TDI90.

bretti_kivi said:

mike, you can just get a new pair of cogs? ... see http://www.a2-freun.de/forum/showthread.php?t=23805. Costs are around £200.

Search over there for "gangpaar", there are lots of ideas and thoughts, numbers and calculations. Petrols can't have it and keep cruise, otherwise mine would be on the list.

Bret

Click to expand...

Thank you Bret.

I may come back with questions as I'm using the Google translation service.

I guess the parts may be £200, but the labour costs would substantially increase the total cost of the change, to what Skipton01 says.

How about this for economy?

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Green-...ives/Volkswagen-Passat-Bluemotion-CAR-review/

It appears that gearing is an easy solution for VAG.

John.

GBMSU said:

The 1.6FSI has the lowest gearing (ie more engine revs for a given speed) followed by the 1.4 petrol (due to a small differance in the final drive ratio).
Then comes the 1.4TDI75, followed by the 1.4TDI90 (both diesels share the same final drive but have different gearbox ratios - except for reverse which is the same).
Finally comes the 1.2TDI which has the highest gearing of all the A2 models. Both the final drive and gearbox ratios are higher then the 1.4TDI90.

Click to expand...

Thank you GBMSU,

I still would like to know what speed each of the various models does at 2000rpm. Anyone?

John.

Audi A2 1.4 TDI 75 ==> 65 mph @ 2000 rpm on flat road

no, that £200 was all inclusive (!!!)

Vor einigen Wochen habe ich die Frage nach einem geänderten 5.Gang gestellt. Leider kaum Resonanz.
Unter der Rufnummer 040 3904433 , Herr Grünkorn, kann man eine Übersetzung von 0.68 für den 5.Gang bekommen. Sehr interessant für die TDI's die eine Übersetzung von ca. 0.74 haben (75 PS TDI oder mehr...) und event. ein paar PS mehr haben. Getriebekennung muß angegeben werden.
Hier die Preise: 5.Gangpaar 230,-- € Brutto
Einbau 50,--
Öl 9,--/l

Click to expand...

so, that's 230€ for the cogs, €50 for fitting and another 9 for the oil. That's in Hamburg.

There's another place in NRW (round dortmund way) that charges similar numbers, one in Dresden for €230 and the Munich guys were paying also around the same. You don't even have to drop the 'box out of the car according to one guy who did it himself....

Bret

If this is the case Bretti, please can you get as much info as possible (new final ratios, speed per rpm etc), as it really is something that I want to address, both to improve economy and performance (economy by virtue of running the engine at lower rpm for any given speed and performance as the torque I now have available means that the car can start off in second gear in most situations - giving much quicker acceleration times).

Cheers,

Mike

this will take a while, so please bear with me:

This is from Getriebedienst Altona (with the phone number I mentioned earlier, the one that starts 040):

difference:
old___18 to 24 = 0,75 ( so 10,2912 % more than 0,68 )
new__17 to 25 = 0,68 ( so 9.333... % less than 0,75 )


OLD
===

Tacho UpM
_50 = 1120 = 30mph
_60 = 1350 = 36mph
_70 = 1570 = 42mph
_80 = 1800 = 50mph
_90 = 2020 = 56mph
100 = 2250 = 62mph
110 = 2480
120 = 2700
130 = 2930 = 81mph
140 = 3150
150 = 3370
160 = 3600 = 100
170 = 3820
180 = 4050
185 = 4180

NEW

----

ON A 90PS (66kW from new!!!) TDI:
===========================

Übersetzung alt 0.7 /////// Übersetzung neu 0.6458

km/h 100 = 2050 1/min //// 1940 1/min - 110 1/min - 62mph
km/h 120 = 2450 1/min //// 2280 1/min - 170 1/min - 75mph
km/h 140 = 2980 1/min //// 2700 1/min - 280 1/min - 87mph
km/h 160 = 3380 1/min //// 3060 1/min - 320 1/min - 101mph
km/h 180 = 3800 1/min //// 3450 1/min - 350 1/min - 112 mph

Different User:

a 0.65 pair on a chipped 75PS TDI:

0,65er Pair in the EWQ box for 275,-€ +19% tutto kompletti.

http://www.automatikgetriebe.net/

"sounds pleasant and competent on the phone, seems to have lots of chip-tuning customers, and therefore also in the warehouse. Is also here round the corner in north Dortmund".

Er verbaut Zahnräder mit 31:48 = 0,64583333

180km/h @ 3500 or so, "very pleasant", under 50mph difficult.

To do list:
"(Aufbocken, links einschlagen, Motorverkleidung unten ausbauen, Drehmomentstütze ausbauen, Radhausschalen wegbiegen (oder ausbauen),
Getriebedeckel ab, Zahnradpaar tauschen und alles wieder zusammen.)"

"raise the car, wheels to the left. Drop the engine cover, the torque support (?), the inner wheelarch skin, lid off the 'box, change the cogs and put everything back together"

Listing of how to do it yourself: http://www.a2-freun.de/forum/showpost.php?p=681689&postcount=197

HtH. If you want something else... there are lots of guys who've now had it done.
Depends on your requirements as to which makes more sense: if it's lots autobahn, then 0.65 is good, if you need the limits as the UK has them, 0.68 or 7 makes more sense as 60 is then where the turbo kicks in.

Bret

Satyr said:

Audi A2 1.4 TDI 75 ==> 65 mph @ 2000 rpm on flat road

Click to expand...

Er... sorry, I made an error converting kmh to mph

My A2 1.4 TDI 75 ==> 59 mph @ 2000 rpm @ 63 mph @ 2200 rpm

Hope this helps. I will have my engine fine tuned by a Ferrari Engineer that can add 28 to 35 hp to my car. Hopefully, this will be done by the end of July.

Thanks again Bret - a good post.

A couple of questions:

Who makes the replacement gears? Are they standard VAG parts?

Does it change all gears or just 3rd, 4th and 5th gears?

John.

this is / was mainly about fifth. The thing is that both TDIs run into the limiter at high speeds; the 1.2 is actually faster because of the longer gearing and lower Cd; the chipped 75s run around 190, the 1.2 should hit 200kph+. There were a couple of forum guys "playing" on the way back from a meeting back in 2005 and though the 75 would accelerate slightly faster, the 1.2 had the edge on top speed.

So, these guys are running a longer fifth, which, though it increases the gap between fourth and fifth - "don't change until 2500rpm" was mentioned - it means that you have a real "overdrive" for cruising, resulting in better economy and less noise.
It may or may not be as useful in the UK due to the lower speeds. I know that the main thing for me would be to drop the revs down to just in the power band at 90kph, so that a rapid overtake would need possibly a run up or dropping a cog, but the economy overall on the standard routes I drive (mainly 2-300 miles at a time on single carriageway A road style or the 60 mile motorway run to the airport) would improve, probably by 10%. that's a nice number. The remaps possible on the diesel should mean that there it's even more useful.
Probably, the guys would be able to fix you up with a different third and fourth, too, but TBH for a reasonable outlay, this is the route I would go. Relatively low cost, minimal risk and a potential for financial recoup within months rather than years.
I'll have to talk to the man who's managed to do the cruise on the 1.2 if he can re-map a 1.4 petrol cruise to work with the longer fifth gear....

Mike, if you're serious about the economy thing, also think about the rear bumper (check underneath the car!), and the spoiler from the 1.2 in the middle of the car, under the engine - 8Z0825211....

John; they're not necessarily VAG parts, I haven't enquired.
Bret

2 + 2 =

I have finally had the chance to read all 11 pages of the link that Bret supplied to the German site. I may be wrong (please correct me if I am) but it appears that 5th gear can be swapped for the 5th gear from a 1.2tdi. This can be done for both the 1,4tdi 75 and 1.4tdi 90.

Ideally, the engine needs to be chipped to cope with the increase in gearing, but there may be one German driver who has changed the cogs without chipping. He has to rev it a bit more in 4th before changing up!

It also appears to be possible to take 5th gear from a 1.4tdi 90 and put them in a 1.4tdi 75 for a small increase.

Anyone with a parts catalog know what the part numbers are?

Hope this is of use.

John.

Hi John
Hope I got this right - The 1.2 TDi gearbox code is FLE and the two cogs for fifth gear are 085 311 361G and 085 311 158N. Apart from gaskets, not sure if you would also need a new synchro ring.
Check this link for more details of the parts - http://www.vagcat.com/

Cheers Spike

ok.... I can't remember reading that the 1.2 cogs fit, but they give 0.642 which is pretty extreme.

The 75s can get the cogs from the 90PS 'box, which gives the 0.68. that's a reasonable improvement.

'Box type GRJ,

Partnumbers:

Zahnrad 28/40: 02A311361AM --> 74,82 inkl.
Schaltrad 28/40: 02A311158AF --> 117,74 inkl

those are older, € prices at the back, including VAT.

Bret

Gonna check now !!