The Great Music and Hi-Fi thread.

My main system is fully wired using DPA Black Slink as both interconnect and speaker cable: Goretex insulation; two pairs of solid-core silver-plated copper wire in Goretex per channel. Deliberately non-directional – cores were drawn off the reel and laid-up in alternating directions! Overall shield with drain wire, covered in black polyurethane. £300/m in1994!
Look you can’t say things like that your in for a slating on this one ..I’m out of here before the trouble starts again ?? who would have thought this would happen it’s worse than brexit ?☹ I’m gonna Finnish off them currant shortcake ..
 
Well I'm pretty sure it came almost free with the rest of the system...It's just there was no point in upgrading it.

I've just found this old add from 2016 £129 got to be worth a dem surely!? I've never heard of it mainly because truly exotic stuff was way beyond my radar back then except the 15's i got for a great price.

47788
 
Here's a (roughly) 20% CD Shelfie ...
47789


Notes (Self defence probably)
  • Pink Floyd Pulse gave up long ago...
  • They're all in alphabetical order (according to usual record shop naming conventions)
  • Categorised by VARIOUS ARTISTS CDs first, Classical CDs, then artist A-Z.
  • There is a disproportionately large "P" section due to having everything Pet Shop Boys and a large collection of Pink Floyd as well.
  • A few cassettes can be seen, these were ones that I was "working on" at the time.
  • The Michael Jackson Singles set is complete.
  • The most expensive CD is just about visible, a cool £299 for a promo copy of SuperPinkyMandy by Beth Orton, I was part way through getting it re-mastered for re-release, but was respectfully asked by Beth to withdraw as she didn't like it anymore.
 
Wow thats some collection you've got there! You'll need to offer a loan out service with that catalogue, special to A2 club members. ;)

I've been looking around at getting a few bits and pieces cant think of any particular names at present but it's shocking how expensive a lot of stuff is just because it's no longer available new.
 
Here's a (roughly) 20% CD Shelfie ...View attachment 47789

Notes (Self defence probably)
  • Pink Floyd Pulse gave up long ago...
  • They're all in alphabetical order (according to usual record shop naming conventions)
  • Categorised by VARIOUS ARTISTS CDs first, Classical CDs, then artist A-Z.
  • There is a disproportionately large "P" section due to having everything Pet Shop Boys and a large collection of Pink Floyd as well.
  • A few cassettes can be seen, these were ones that I was "working on" at the time.
  • The Michael Jackson Singles set is complete.
  • The most expensive CD is just about visible, a cool £299 for a promo copy of SuperPinkyMandy by Beth Orton, I was part way through getting it re-mastered for re-release, but was respectfully asked by Beth to withdraw as she didn't like it anymore.
? that’s the most I’ve ever seen in a private collection that’s a small mortgage worth ?...
 
Honestly, doing blind tests on back to back listening with interconnects costing £20 or £2000, I guarantee you'll not hear the difference. As long as there's enough metal to carry the current and not to impede the flow of electrons, all these esoteric descriptions of cables being "tighter", "clearer", "more spacious" etc, are solely designed to part Joe Public with their hard earned cash.

When I first saw this thread appear, I wondered how long it would take until the conversation turned to cables and interconnects. It's a discussion that fills HiFi forums across the internet.

Most people here associate me with A2s, but outside my work on our little aluminium friends, I design and build recording studio audio systems. Here's an example of a studio I built in 2016...

47791


For those who have some familiarity with such systems, this is a studio based around an SSL AWS948 Delta feeding UA Apollo interfaces. Outboard includes classic stuff like Neve, Avalon and UA mic amps, 1176 compressors, a Fairchild, a selection of Chandler dynamics, AMS FX and lots, lots more. Monitoring is done through Neumann near-fields and a pair of Genelecs like those used by Skipton in his broadcast audio system.

I wired up this studio from scratch. There's not a single purchased cable in the entire analogue system. To make it all work, I did approximately 25,000 solder joints (small wonder I now find myself battling musculoskeletal issues!). I've created at least 30 similar studios across the UK and have been inside many, many more. One thing all professional recording studios across the world have in common: they don't pay any attention to the utter, utter nonsense that is peddled by the HiFi industry.

All the music you have ever listened to was recorded through humble copper wires. Admittedly, we're talking about decent copper wire rather than cheap bell wire, but nevertheless all the nebulous, unsubstantiated claims made by the HiFi industry about cabling is completely ignored within pro audio circles. Indeed, many pro audio engineers like myself and Skipton try to fight back against what we know to be fraudulent misinformation, but it's hard to convince anyone who has spent £1000 on a bit of wire that they could have achieved exactly the same thing for £25.

Cabling in recording studios is important and a great deal of thought is given to the matter. The most important thing is signal balancing, which is universally employed at every connection (and features on some expensive HiFi gear). Then there's the use of twisted pair and shielding. Skipton mentioned VDC Starquad in one of his posts, which employs all three of these technologies to ensure that signal is transferred as cleanly as possible. It is the industry leader because of science; repeatable, verifiable, unbiased measurement resulting in evidence-based conclusions. It costs roughly £4 per metre and will, absolutely categorically, do a better job than the Russ Andrews non-balanced RCA interconnect that's being sold on their website for £1816 per metre. Russ Andrews and similar manufacturers/vendors always advertise their cables using vague terms like "open", "tight", "revealing", "spacious", etc, precisely because there's no objective method of measuring such things. They're making sure that nobody can take them to task about their outlandish claims by deliberately avoiding talk of things that actually matter and that can be tested, like signal-to-noise ratio.

Directional analogue audio cables make no sense. Music is an alternating current! There is no net transfer of electrons in either direction. For every millisecond that the electrons are travelling in one direction, there's a millisecond when they're travelling in the opposite direction. Again, no professional recording studio outfit would give a moment's thought to which way around to use an analogue audio cable because it cannot make any difference. Physics says so.

Cabling does make a difference. A 2-core cable is basically a series of tiny resistors with loads of tiny capacitors in parallel. So, change the metal from copper to silver, for instance, and chances are that you'll find an empirical difference if you're measuring some parameter with an oscilloscope. But the room in which you listen will completely swamp that difference. You could make a more discernable difference by changing the fabric of your listening sofa. Room acoustics far, far outweighs anything as trivial as what kind of metal you're using over 50cm.

Expensive power cables also make no difference. There's approximately 3 miles between my house and the nearest power station. The cables cross railway lines, go over farmers' fields and are buried beneath houses. It then runs through the walls of my house as good old twin-and-earth. How exactly does my HiFi sound better due to the last 30cm being coated in some expensive material? Why is it always expensive materials that allegedly make things sound better? It's a scam. By all means buy a power conditioner that filters everything other than the 50Hz AC signal that you want, but don't waste your money on pretty kettle cables, as they're nothing more than that. Every piece of serious precision audio gear in the studio photographed above is connected to the mains using a bit of standard 3-core flex.

I love listening to music. I don't own a TV nor do I pay for a TV licence because there's nothing I'd rather do in the evenings than lose myself in one of my favourite albums. The make and model of my speakers are the same that were, for many years, used as the reference speakers in the Abbey Road Studios. Needless to say, they're breathtakingly wonderful. I chose which house to buy with their positioning in mind. I have modified the room acoustics by damping beneath the floor and above the ceiling. I also have a separate power circuit from the distro board such that the HiFi doesn't reside on the same circuit as my fridge and such. My point is, I take all this stuff very seriously because I get immense pleasure from feeling like I'm in the same room as the musicians when the recording took place. But I won't entertain cable voodoo or any of the so-called arguments in its favour. My system is entirely balanced, so I run VDC Starquad from my DAC to my preamp, and then from my premap to the power amp. I soldered the XLR connections myself. Nothing that Russ Andrews makes will sound any better. The speakers are driven along some fat VDC speaker cable that cost about £15 per metre. Its current-carrying capability is well in excess of what's needed, meaning no improvement can be made by changing the metal, adding some heatshrink in aesthetically pleasing places or by laying the cable on a series of little stands rather than on the carpet.

People will defend their choices because they have an emotional investment in doing so. Nobody likes to feel that they've wasted their money, that they've been duped or that they're simply wrong. But a lot of the HiFi industry - and particularly the world of cabling - belongs in the same category as tarot cards, angelic reiki, dragon healing, aura therapy and ear candling. It's a world of made-up nonsense. And all the audio engineers who have become regarded as HiFi gurus, whose word on such matters somehow must be respected, have simply been sucked into that same world of quackery.

Cheers,

Tom
 
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Nice reply Tom Thank you.
What is the function of the 2 lava lamps please?
I'm sure that I am not the only one who would like to see a photo of your home system please? B&W 801s?
 
Tom and Mike,

How dare you bring science and proven observable fact into the same discussion as ‘advertising and marketing’.

You’ll be discussing such unlikely juxtaposition as ‘honest’ and ‘lawyers’ next!

Very unsettling.



Ps. Thank you for the technical background too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Superbly compendious post there @timmus :)

Also, as you may notice I tend to put my time into listening to the music that I have, and content, rather than follow the law of diminishing returns that is "Audio Nirvana". Every now and then I put some small improvement into my system and get a "WOW" moment. Most recent of this was when I was listening to Michael Jackson's Wanna Be Starting Something on my Grado SR325 headphones from my Fiio X5ii DAP, and suddenly heard a spoken "Du du du du du!" in the intro, something I'd never heard before despite probably having listened to the track a hundred or more times. It's one of those things you can't now "unhear". Like the "hi hat" noise in S-Express is actually a spray can being sprayed.

Anyway Tom, hopefully this means your fingers are starting to build up again for your return to full strength and A2 retrofitting nirvana.
 
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People will defend their choices because they have an emotional investment in doing so. Nobody likes to feel that they've wasted their money, that they've been duped or that they're simply wrong. But a lot of the HiFi industry - and particularly the world of cabling - belongs in the same category as tarot cards, angelic reiki, dragon healing, aura therapy and ear candling. It's a world of made-up nonsense. And all the audio engineers who have become regarded as HiFi gurus, whose word on such matters somehow must be respected, have simply been sucked into that same world of quackery.

So if I was wading in with size 10 boots, Tom must have at least size 12's.

I am finally pleased to be in complete harmony and agreement with my old chum, after a lot of nonsense in recent times. However, what I will say is that directional interconnects do make a tiny bit of sense:

quite a few balanced cable makers only ever solder the shield at one end of the cable, so they save money by having fewer manufacturing steps. They then put a label on the interconnect saying that the wire should be used in a particular way but there's no consensus on whether the shield jointed end is at the source or amp.

So, they save money in the manufacturing process, then charge more by saying it's a directional (and therefore better) product. Utter cr4p!
 
I feel the same about wine ... it all tastes exactly the same, whether £4 a bottle or a really expensive £6.99
... lights touch paper and runs for cover ?
 
Tom, I must pick your brains one day soon about all-things studio... I've been helping a friend record his music in a makeshift studio, I could do with some sage advice from you.
 
When I first saw this thread appear, I wondered how long it would take until the conversation turned to cables and interconnects. It's a discussion that fills HiFi forums across the internet.

Most people here associate me with A2s, but outside my work on our little aluminium friends, I design and build recording studio audio systems. Here's an example of a studio I built in 2016...

View attachment 47791

For those who have some familiarity with such systems, this is a studio based around an SSL AWS948 Delta feeding UA Apollo interfaces. Outboard includes classic stuff like Neve, Avalon and UA mic amps, 1176 compressors, a Fairchild, a selection of Chandler dynamics, AMS FX and lots, lots more. Monitoring is done through Neumann near-fields and a pair of Genelecs like those used by Skipton in his broadcast audio system.

I wired up this studio from scratch. There's not a single purchased cable in the entire analogue system. To make it all work, I did approximately 25,000 solder joints (small wonder I now find myself battling musculoskeletal issues!). I've created at least 30 similar studios across the UK and have been inside many, many more. One thing all professional recording studios across the world have in common: they don't pay any attention to the utter, utter nonsense that is peddled by the HiFi industry.

All the music you have ever listened to was recorded through humble copper wires. Admittedly, we're talking about decent copper wire rather than cheap bell wire, but nevertheless all the nebulous, unsubstantiated claims made by the HiFi industry about cabling is completely ignored within pro audio circles. Indeed, many pro audio engineers like myself and Skipton try to fight back against what we know to be fraudulent misinformation, but it's hard to convince anyone who has spent £1000 on a bit of wire that they could have achieved exactly the same thing for £25.

Cabling in recording studios is important and a great deal of thought is given to the matter. The most important thing is signal balancing, which is universally employed at every connection (and features on some expensive HiFi gear). Then there's the use of twisted pair and shielding. Skipton mentioned VDC Starquad in one of his posts, which employs all three of these technologies to ensure that signal is transferred as cleanly as possible. It is the industry leader because of science; repeatable, verifiable, unbiased measurement resulting in evidence-based conclusions. It costs roughly £4 per metre and will, absolutely categorically, do a better job than the Russ Andrews non-balanced RCA interconnect that's being sold on their website for £1816 per metre. Russ Andrews and similar manufacturers/vendors always advertise their cables using vague terms like "open", "tight", "revealing", "spacious", etc, precisely because there's no objective method of measuring such things. They're making sure that nobody can take them to task about their outlandish claims by deliberately avoiding talk of things that actually matter and that can be tested, like signal-to-noise ratio.

Directional analogue audio cables make no sense. Music is an alternating current! There is no net transfer of electrons in either direction. For every millisecond that the electrons are travelling in one direction, there's a millisecond when they're travelling in the opposite direction. Again, no professional recording studio outfit would give a moment's thought to which way around to use an analogue audio cable because it cannot make any difference. Physics says so.

Cabling does make a difference. A 2-core cable is basically a series of tiny resistors with loads of tiny capacitors in parallel. So, change the metal from copper to silver, for instance, and chances are that you'll find an empirical difference if you're measuring some parameter with an oscilloscope. But the room in which you listen will completely swamp that difference. You could make a more discernable difference by changing the fabric of your listening sofa. Room acoustics far, far outweighs anything as trivial as what kind of metal you're using over 50cm.

Expensive power cables also make no difference. There's approximately 3 miles between my house and the nearest power station. The cables cross railway lines, go over farmers' fields and are buried beneath houses. It then runs through the walls of my house as good old twin-and-earth. How exactly does my HiFi sound better due to the last 30cm being coated in some expensive material? Why is it always expensive materials that allegedly make things sound better? It's a scam. By all means buy a power conditioner that filters everything other than the 50Hz AC signal that you want, but don't waste your money on pretty kettle cables, as they're nothing more than that. Every piece of serious precision audio gear in the studio photographed above is connected to the mains using a bit of standard 3-core flex.

I love listening to music. I don't own a TV nor do I pay for a TV licence because there's nothing I'd rather do in the evenings than lose myself in one of my favourite albums. The make and model of my speakers are the same that were, for many years, used as the reference speakers in the Abbey Road Studios. Needless to say, they're breathtakingly wonderful. I chose which house to buy with their positioning in mind. I have modified the room acoustics by damping beneath the floor and above the ceiling. I also have a separate power circuit from the distro board such that the HiFi doesn't reside on the same circuit as my fridge and such. My point is, I take all this stuff very seriously because I get immense pleasure from feeling like I'm in the same room as the musicians when the recording took place. But I won't entertain cable voodoo or any of the so-called arguments in its favour. My system is entirely balanced, so I run VDC Starquad from my DAC to my preamp, and then from my premap to the power amp. I soldered the XLR connections myself. Nothing that Russ Andrews makes will sound any better. The speakers are driven along some fat VDC speaker cable that cost about £15 per metre. Its current-carrying capability is well in excess of what's needed, meaning no improvement can be made by changing the metal, adding some heatshrink in aesthetically pleasing places or by laying the cable on a series of little stands rather than on the carpet.

People will defend their choices because they have an emotional investment in doing so. Nobody likes to feel that they've wasted their money, that they've been duped or that they're simply wrong. But a lot of the HiFi industry - and particularly the world of cabling - belongs in the same category as tarot cards, angelic reiki, dragon healing, aura therapy and ear candling. It's a world of made-up nonsense. And all the audio engineers who have become regarded as HiFi gurus, whose word on such matters somehow must be respected, have simply been sucked into that same world of quackery.

Cheers,

Tom

Well you never stop learning and that’s a fact ...my late father had a great saying know all’s know nowt...I am pleased I’m using the same speaker cable as you have recommended ? none of my interconnects are more than £50 ..I found the whole write up very informative..I have never realised that spending big money on interconnects and speaker cable made little difference really good to know ..what i am interested in his the hard wear side ie source and power would love to hear your comments on this timmus
 
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