IS IT NECESSARY TO REMOVE the Crank seal housing WHEN ONLY CHANGING THE CHAIN AND SPANNER?Step 8
What you remove and how you remove it at this stage has a big influence on the amount of effort required to to reassemble the engine.
First remove the crank timing lock tool, crank bolt and crank timing sprocket. Before removing the Crank seal housing decide if you want to try and retain / reuse the existing crank seal:
I had lots of trouble with this seal, all my previous experience has been with rubber seals. This crank seal is made of PTFE and behaves very differently to rubber. If it is slightly wrongly deformed it does not have the ability to recover like rubber.
Here are some links on the subject:
http://www.victorreinz.com/EN/Servi...-Oil-Seals-and-Their-Installation.aspx?region originally posted by Spike.
http://www.skf.com/uk/products/seal...on-general-industrial-applications/index.html originally posted by SCO
I have searched the manual and there is no guidance on reusing this seal however if the housing is carefully detached and removed square to the shaft then I suspect it may be possible to reuse the existing seal. The safe option though is to follow the manual and replace the seal using tool T10053.
At this point I was faced with a chain that was not positioned as in the manual:
The manual shows the crank sprocket timing mark at TDC and the chain timing links aligned with the timing marks on the crank and balancer sprockets. This took some thinking about and eventually I decided it did not matter if the crank mark was not at TDC or have the chain marks aligned providing there was the correct number of links between the crank sprocket timing mark and balance shaft timing mark. Don't try to move the crank you will lock your piston against your valves.
I replaced the full set of sprockets, chain etc so everything had to come off. The manual offers no advice on removing the oil pump sprocket so I held the balance shaft from turning and loosened it the pump sprocket first. Next the tensioner was held back and the idler sprocket and chain removed. The balance shaft was rotated so that it could be locked with a spanner:
Balance shaft sprocket removed, tensioner removed and finally a big puller pulls the crank sprocket. Everything is now off the car.
1.4 TDi oil pump / balance shaft chain and chain tensioner replacement.
- Thread starter Little Dog
- Start date
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
A general warning on A2C, possibly by Sarge, that Tdi owners should be aware of this issue. Then one morning when the car was still cold I had to boot it to avoid a collision and I noticed a rattle. The work was necessary, not because the chain or sprockets were badly worn but because the tensioner was wearing through.
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
The chain is driven by the crank so the seal housing has to come of to remove the chain. If you have issues with the PTFE seal then I'm sure standard seals will be available but I'm not sure of the correct size.
ben tomlinson
Member
chain streatches over time, mine would rattle on start up for 2-3 seconds then disappear
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
Chains don't stretch they wear out along with the sprockets they run on (I'm a cyclist, got lots of experience), additionally on cars tensioner slipper pads wear out. I don't have any rattle on start up.
Hello guys, due to the fact that I have to do many work in my ATL with 260 k km, ( https://www.a2oc.net/community/inde...atl-with-multiple-failures.40563/#post-362456 ). I seriously think it is imperiously necessary to open the engine ( and check or directely renew some parts of the lubrication system...
Please can somebody help me with the part numbers of the parts I have to change ? (Or part number of that Felbi kit, is interesting that this is made by ...let says Audi).
Thank you !
Please can somebody help me with the part numbers of the parts I have to change ? (Or part number of that Felbi kit, is interesting that this is made by ...let says Audi).
Thank you !
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
Use this link then enter your car details https://partsfinder.bilsteingroup.com They are listing just three kits now for my car, the one I fitted is not listed.
The Febi kit I bought had all genuine VAG parts in it.
dj_efk
A2OC Donor
Hi Phil / anyone else - I can see the Febi part number for the most complete kit of parts is 32266, however this only includes 3 out of the 4 sprockets that need to be changed for complete peace of mind - I wonder why?! - Anyway, what is the part number of the missing sprocket from this kit?
EDIT: I see that Febi did used to do a kit numbered 43667 that included all four sprockets, but due to I assume the fourth one rarely needing replacement they dropped it. FAI auto parts still makes the complete kit however I’ve not heard of them before (although reviews online are that they’re a good British supplier and no problems on their other chain kits for other vehicles).
https://www.faiauto.com/
thanks
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Crank gear is absent in 32266 , would usually only be required if chain has failed and gear spins on crank
For preventitive maintenance 32266 will be fine
Chain and tensioner alone may be adequate
dj_efk
A2OC Donor
Thanks. Does anyone have a complete list of parts needed for this job beyond the Febi kit, including the crank seal? I ask as I understand there are quite a few other single use components of a minor nature that should be renewed at the same time.
Asking so I can prepare my garage for what they need (or more likely, so I can source them cheaper via ebay etc.!).
Asking so I can prepare my garage for what they need (or more likely, so I can source them cheaper via ebay etc.!).
JulesW
A2OC Donor
I always thought, being a fellow cyclist, that chains do stretch that is why you test your chains with a device that measures the length of chain over a certain number of links. Normally a bike chain is 12" over 12 links and 1% stretch is too much.
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whatevershebringswesing
Member
I too am into bikes and chain in an A2 (Ultegra chain last week and chain in A2 engine next month!) . It is commonplace for the term 'stretch' to be used in defective chains but the elongation isn't due to - as it were - elastic dimensional change. The elongation is due to wear in each link 'bearing' having a cumulative effect so that the chain gets longer. As with the bike there comes a point (1.0 on the bike tool) where the elongation is so much that the sprockets (cassette on the bike) must be changed at the same time the chain is replaced. I have no idea if the A2 oil chain can be measured for wear but I am having the lot changed to avoid catastrophe. The advice in this thread is really excellent. atb
Hi. I got a part list from the German a2 site. Quite a few bolts. Afraid I can’t find it now.
Also an aftermarket crankshaft seal will come with the tool for fitting. I think we got one from febi.
I only had the three gears changed. The chain wasn’t really elongated. But the tensioner was very worn. I’ll see if I can find that a2-freun page with the part numbers.
All bolts came from VW dealer. Febi chain kit from eBay.
Also an aftermarket crankshaft seal will come with the tool for fitting. I think we got one from febi.
I only had the three gears changed. The chain wasn’t really elongated. But the tensioner was very worn. I’ll see if I can find that a2-freun page with the part numbers.
All bolts came from VW dealer. Febi chain kit from eBay.
dj_efk
A2OC Donor
Another very good post from Briskoda on this job with a complete list of parts and sundries you’ll need:
Clicky
It seems to me that this job should be included on the servicing schedule of every TDI, purely on a mileage basis -as opposed to the cambelt which is on a mileage or time basis, whichever is sooner (Click here for the existing version of the A2 servicing schedule ).
This means that based on the evidence of failures occurring I’ve seen here and based on the advice of Sarge (CLICK HERE), the recommendation would be to replace the chain and tensioner, at least, at the next cambelt change after the car has done 160,000 KM / 100,000 miles - and be prepared that an inspection may reveal the need to replace the lower three sprockets also (I.e. all components in the Febi 32266 kit). The car should not be allowed to go past 200,000 KM / 125,000 miles without this work being done (less if there is less than perfect / missing oil change history) - as although there’s a good chance you may get lucky, anecdotal experience from this forum suggests that the risk the chain will eventually fail starts to exponentially increase if so - Would we all be in agreement with this?
Thanks to both @philward and @Sarge for publicly highlighting this as an issue and saving many a TDI owner heartache and unnecessary scrapping of these wonderful little cars!
Clicky
It seems to me that this job should be included on the servicing schedule of every TDI, purely on a mileage basis -as opposed to the cambelt which is on a mileage or time basis, whichever is sooner (Click here for the existing version of the A2 servicing schedule ).
This means that based on the evidence of failures occurring I’ve seen here and based on the advice of Sarge (CLICK HERE), the recommendation would be to replace the chain and tensioner, at least, at the next cambelt change after the car has done 160,000 KM / 100,000 miles - and be prepared that an inspection may reveal the need to replace the lower three sprockets also (I.e. all components in the Febi 32266 kit). The car should not be allowed to go past 200,000 KM / 125,000 miles without this work being done (less if there is less than perfect / missing oil change history) - as although there’s a good chance you may get lucky, anecdotal experience from this forum suggests that the risk the chain will eventually fail starts to exponentially increase if so - Would we all be in agreement with this?
Thanks to both @philward and @Sarge for publicly highlighting this as an issue and saving many a TDI owner heartache and unnecessary scrapping of these wonderful little cars!
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@dj_efk personally I think this is too unambiguously, and such conclusion just cause panic by members.
Someone should eg ask in the highest milage thread, how many that has replaced the oil chain. The same chain is also used on other TDIs and they run longer than 150-250’ before requiring any major teardown of the engine.
Oil service intervall, driving style etc could have an impact on lifetime, and would not worry to replace the oil chain along with the third or forth timing chain; ie 3 times 90’km -> 270’km++
Someone should eg ask in the highest milage thread, how many that has replaced the oil chain. The same chain is also used on other TDIs and they run longer than 150-250’ before requiring any major teardown of the engine.
Oil service intervall, driving style etc could have an impact on lifetime, and would not worry to replace the oil chain along with the third or forth timing chain; ie 3 times 90’km -> 270’km++
I changed it at 190k miles. Chain and sprockets weren’t bad. Tensioner was very worn though and chain had started wearing a little groove in block. Engine has had oil change every 10k miles with 507spec oil. So that kind of tallies with the briskoda post. I reckon it should be on the to do list with the timing belt in and around 125k miles.
dj_efk
A2OC Donor
If you read my post again, I said it should be done at the next cambelt change after the car has done at least 90,000 miles (150k KM), not 90,000 KM <NOW EDITED TO 100k MILES>.
This is going from the evidence posted on this forum that tensioners that have done just 110k - 130k miles have been discovered to be worn out, despite proper servicing throughout the engine's working life. I am not trying to cause panic, only to highlight that this work needs to be considered a scheduled maintenance item.
It is of course, up to the individual as to when they think it necessary. In my case, the car I am about to acquire has done 135,000 miles on what I believe to be it's original chain and tensioner, hence as it's due a cambelt anyway I'm getting this done at the same time along with the sprockets. I will post the findings re: the state of the old components here in due course.
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bretti_kivi
Member
There's no information from Audi. A couple of the German guys have changed theirs and the principle above - change at around 120k miles or 200k kms - that's absolutely not unreasonable. I already posted links to the thread on the German forum showing the chains at this age and though they are not massively problematic, prophylactic changes are a good move.
- Bret
- Bret