1.6 FSi Is it that bad?

Jeetesh said:
Mine is pristine and a low mileage example and I love it.

I’ve had a TDI 75 previously and whilst reliable it’s noisy (I have a modern diesel too so the TDI was too agricultural for me), the FSI however is quiet, free revving and old school hot hatch quick. It has a completely different character/personality so much so you wouldn’t expect them to be that different, but they are.

Lots negative have been written about it and I read all of it (can be disheartening) and still opted for the FSI. If it’s been looked after and you know what to look out for then it’s probably the one to get.
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I totally agree with this, with one caveat (below). I've got both TDi and FSi and come from a 1.4 petrol. My impressions are that the FSi is probably the best driver's car of the bunch for the reasons my learned friend gives here. For me, they very much remind me of my old MK3 Golf GTi 8V (which is a very good thing): fast enough to be good fun, amazing frugal to grin ratio, but not too hardcore either.

A lot will depend on the sort of use the car might get. If you're doing huge mileage or even a very steady, boring A-road commute, the TDi has a lot to be said for it. They are not too shouty on the motorway at all, have plenty of shove and are silly cheap to run. BUT the TDi's simply don't invite you to get involved in the same way as either of the petrols. They neither need nor like lots of gear changes and you can feel the weight of the engine and box up front. They are bonkers noisy from cold (as in, how could they possibly sign it off noisy), although do have a nice thrum and an air of complete indestructibility.

Now, if you're not doing huge mileages and enjoy 'a bit of a drive', then the FSi really starts to make sense: they are so much quieter and refined than the diesels and they have a decent amount of low down pulling power. I feel the petrols match the futuristic air and concept of the A2's. Most of all, they are a real driver's car and pass my critical test: does it want you to take the long way home? I think a good FSi does.

The caveat? This is the crunch: you either need to be a competent DIY mechanic and comfortable with the concepts of fault codes and diagnostics (bolstered by the truly excellent help on here), or know someone that understands A2's. You don't want to be paying a 'normal' mechanic to learn about these cars on your dollar.

In reality of course, if you get a car and keep it well up to date (like any 15-20 year old car) then you're unlikely to be tackling very much at any one time. What isn't viable is paying others to resolve multiple FSi type issues all at once when you buy a car: the labour will be the killer here.

As a sign-off, it's easy to forget just how old all of our cars are now. The earliest A2's are over 1/5th of a century. Not long ago, these would only have to be another three or four years older to have been an 'Historic Vehicle'. Because they look so modern and feel so well built, it's very easy to forget we are dealing with what are essentially classic cars. View them in this light and you'll be absolutely delighted. Think of them in the same way as you would a four year old Aygo and things might be different ?
 
Rusty911 said:
I totally agree with this, with one caveat (below). I've got both TDi and FSi and come from a 1.4 petrol. My impressions are that the FSi is probably the best driver's car of the bunch for the reasons my learned friend gives here. For me, they very much remind me of my old MK3 Golf GTi 8V (which is a very good thing): fast enough to be good fun, amazing frugal to grin ratio, but not too hardcore either.

A lot will depend on the sort of use the car might get. If you're doing huge mileage or even a very steady, boring A-road commute, the TDi has a lot to be said for it. They are not too shouty on the motorway at all, have plenty of shove and are silly cheap to run. BUT the TDi's simply don't invite you to get involved in the same way as either of the petrols. They neither need nor like lots of gear changes and you can feel the weight of the engine and box up front. They are bonkers noisy from cold (as in, how could they possibly sign it off noisy), although do have a nice thrum and an air of complete indestructibility.

Now, if you're not doing huge mileages and enjoy 'a bit of a drive', then the FSi really starts to make sense: they are so much quieter and refined than the diesels and they have a decent amount of low down pulling power. I feel the petrols match the futuristic air and concept of the A2's. Most of all, they are a real driver's car and pass my critical test: does it want you to take the long way home? I think a good FSi does.

The caveat? This is the crunch: you either need to be a competent DIY mechanic and comfortable with the concepts of fault codes and diagnostics (bolstered by the truly excellent help on here), or know someone that understands A2's. You don't want to be paying a 'normal' mechanic to learn about these cars on your dollar.

In reality of course, if you get a car and keep it well up to date (like any 15-20 year old car) then you're unlikely to be tackling very much at any one time. What isn't viable is paying others to resolve multiple FSi type issues all at once when you buy a car: the labour will be the killer here.

As a sign-off, it's easy to forget just how old all of our cars are now. The earliest A2's are over 1/5th of a century. Not long ago, these would only have to be another three or four years older to have been an 'Historic Vehicle'. Because they look so modern and feel so well built, it's very easy to forget we are dealing with what are essentially classic cars. View them in this light and you'll be absolutely delighted. Think of them in the same way as you would a four year old Aygo and things might be different ?
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Well said @Rusty911

There was one year I did 40k miles in my previous TDI at which point it made sense and the diesel noise was drowned out by road/wind noise and sound system.

Try both, make an informed decision.
 
Hello
I got Growler in August 2018. The car was in quite good order except the engine. The previous owner didn't know much about the A2 and his wife forbade him spending anymore money on it.
It took me a while to get it sorted, due to lack of money, but I really wanted to save a good, low mileage, example (lots of goodies included).
I found out that the car had been "fiddled" with by previous owners.
Got the inlet manifold cleaned, the "pipe of death" replaced at the same time. Had the power steering sorted. Proper service but still an EML coming on and off.
Got the whole suspension and brakes replaced. And my mechanic found the EML was coming from the engine ECU. I still need to get that sorted.
The car cost me £800 to buy, it cost me much more to sort out but what a fun drive!
This was not a well cared for car but it's getting better.
And will soon get even better, watch this space...

BTW, it's name came from the noise the exhaust was doing when I got it ;)
 
A couple of points:
- FSI was new tech when the car was launched. It requires a lot of supporting tech to make it work and this is not the most reliable. Much of this stuff is hard to fix and results in an EML. These are now MoT failures.
- the car absolutely must be fed 98 or things will go wrong.
- for efficiency's sake, the cooling system runs at 110C. This ages plastics faster. If the specific pipe at the back of the engine fails, you'll get coolant dumped and potentially a warped block...
- .. and the block is *rare*, having only been used in some other VW products and the A2. Spare engines are not easy to find.
- you also have a car that is picky about coilpacks and they may well fail on a regular basis.

The ProBoost remap fixes one and three. Two remains, as does four and five.
If you want simple reliability, the 1.4 petrol is easier to deal with. If you do big miles, the 75 TDI would be the alternative. If you do not have a garage and don't want to spend any time fixing the car, then buy a 1.4. If you're prepared to put in the effort, an FSI might be worth it.

- Bret
 
bretti_kivi said:
A couple of points:
- FSI was new tech when the car was launched. It requires a lot of supporting tech to make it work and this is not the most reliable. Much of this stuff is hard to fix and results in an EML. These are now MoT failures.
- the car absolutely must be fed 98 or things will go wrong.
- for efficiency's sake, the cooling system runs at 110C. This ages plastics faster. If the specific pipe at the back of the engine fails, you'll get coolant dumped and potentially a warped block...
- .. and the block is *rare*, having only been used in some other VW products and the A2. Spare engines are not easy to find.
- you also have a car that is picky about coilpacks and they may well fail on a regular basis.

The ProBoost remap fixes one and three. Two remains, as does four and five.
If you want simple reliability, the 1.4 petrol is easier to deal with. If you do big miles, the 75 TDI would be the alternative. If you do not have a garage and don't want to spend any time fixing the car, then buy a 1.4. If you're prepared to put in the effort, an FSI might be worth it.

- Bret
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The coil pack unreliabilitty, was not limited to A2s, or even VAG. I believe it is a past problem. Buy Bosch, NGK or Audi new now, and they'll last. So, peronally, I'd discount them as an FSI issue, if they are originals on your car, replace them now.
Mac.
 
EML is not necessarily an MoT failure though it is possible the tester may not know this...
You need to inspect MIL fitted to diesel vehicles with 4 or more wheels and first used on or after 1 July 2008.

similar rules also apply to lpg and petrol vehicles

You need to inspect MIL fitted to

petrol vehicles with 4 or more wheels, not more than 8 passenger seats in addition to the driver’s seat and first used on or after 1 July 2003
 
I can't understand why you would ignore an EML Warning Light, and just carry on, only giving it any thought when MoT time is near. It's telling you that there is a problem. You wouldn't (I hope) ignore a brake or steering warning, so why is EML seen differently? At least get it scanned, then decide if it can safely be ignored. It's likely that the EML indicates a condition that is detrimental to the engine/fuel consumption/performance, probably all three, plus raised emissions.
I cringe when I read comments like "... well, it was on when I bought the car, seems to run OK ..."
Mac.
 
@CostaDelGeorge

Thanks for the link on the 59k car.

First it is too cheap for 59k, that is odd. The current MOT fail on the 17/Sept/2020 raises great concern, be very very very careful is all I will say.

Andy
 
PlasticMac said:
I can't understand why you would ignore an EML Warning Light, and just carry on, only giving it any thought when MoT time is near. It's telling you that there is a problem. You wouldn't (I hope) ignore a brake or steering warning, so why is EML seen differently? At least get it scanned, then decide if it can safely be ignored. It's likely that the EML indicates a condition that is detrimental to the engine/fuel consumption/performance, probably all three, plus raised emissions.
I cringe when I read comments like "... well, it was on when I bought the car, seems to run OK ..."
Mac.
Click to expand...
Hear hear. I'm surprised that cars are presented for Mot with tyres below legal tread depth, failed lamps or other (supposedly) routine safety checks though it would appear some assume the Mot covers these checks for 12 months.
 
For info EML is not an MOT failure if car registered before June 2003. My Yorkshire car has apparently had its light on for four years and counting. The one bought round the corner from me has likewise had its own EML for several years it seems.

The critical thing as far as the MOT is concerned (with some logic to be fair) is that the emissions meet the required target. After all, on a societal level, I don't care if the car ahead has an annoying light up on the dash, that's up to the owner to get stressed about (or not). Nasty emissions in my face? I'm much less keen on that.

I totally agree, an EML would drive me completely nuts, but that's because I, like all on here, am a car person that likes things right. With a lot of people, if it's warm, dry, usually points the right way and moves under its own power, that's enough.
 
BTW, I've said it before on here: I really, really, really don't recommend buying A2's from dealers.

That green car will have been bought through the trade for £400-£800 (absolute tops) and then they'll do the bare minimum to get it sold.

Buy privately from someone that's had the car for a while: genuine private sellers won't need a profit margin, are much more likely to be honest and 'might' tell you what work is coming up.

Traders can be very good if they are buying genuine main dealer p.ex's on relatively new stock. If I was after a, say, 14 plate car, I'd go to a trader / dealer. Anything over ten years and I'd always, always go private. Warranties on cars much older than this aren't really worth a lot and you'll get a car several orders of magnitude better for your money by going private.

Sign up to the market-place on here (£2 and a degree in the computer sciences if I remember ?) and pop a 'Want' up: I'm sure you'll be offered a better prospect.

Don't be swayed by miles: if they're the wrong sort (short journeys) low miles generally means almost nothing these days. I'd much rather have a really nicely cared for car with 120K than a low mileage one with no history, poor MOT failure record and average condition.

Very, very few car issues are directly related to mileage these days. Issues are largely age (perishing etc), corrosion (brake pipes, subframes / cross beams / wishbone arms) or lack of use (seized brakes etc).
 
CostaDelGeorge said:
Oh dear. This is more like what I expected. So did it just start happening or are there clues? Everyone talks about all the issues as though they were there from the start. Any good years to look out for or are they all a massive gamble?
Click to expand...

The coolant issue is due to the age of the car, see this post. After 20 years, it probably all needs to be replaced to be sure.
 
Hello all,
I have started once again the FSI after some weeks/months of hibernation (I mostly drive my new electric Peugeot e-208 around town nowadays) and had the chance to test back-to back two of our household A2s, my FSI and my wife's 1.4 petrol, both in Pine Green, OSS etc. Both cars run well now (the FSI needed lots of work as it was not a good buy as the 2 1.4s have been, but after I fitted Steve's electronics the yellow light disappeared at last and the car seems good enough.) I drove the FSI from our home in Bologna for 150 miles then I left her after several errands in Firenze and picked up the 1.4 and drove back to Bologna.
Both worked flawlessly but the engine noise of the FSI seems frankly intolerable on the highway around 80 mph. The FSI did really drown the radio with its engine noise and I have to ask all the people in this fine Forum that have a experience with both if this is normal or if there is (as I suspect) something wrong with my FSI, and what could it be. This FSI is a fairly low-mileage car (less than 90.000 miles) but it was ruined by the previous owner that botched most of the repairs and we had to work a lot on its parts, from the broken OSS to the engine inlet and other stuff, but the engine pulls well though it doesn't seem to get to its maximum declared speed. No error codes now, no abnormal fuel or oil consumption, no strange noises, simply LOTS of engine noise.... as FSIs in Italy are quite rare I don't have access to another one for comparison, and your opinion would be appreciated! The 1.4 in comparison is sweet, quieter, not much slower, a better driving experience overall.
Thanks
Stefano
 

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Yes

they are often left off during maintenance and that would amplify the noise rather than deaden it.

SteveB
 
My FSI is not noisy, even at high (70 + mph) speeds. Would a missing under tray make that much difference, I wouldn't think so. More likely exhaust related. Worth a scan I wager.
Mac.
 
I thought that it was a problem of engine noise, not exhaust noise, that is why I suggested the undertray as a possible cause. With the tray off you get an increase in engine noise. It is there to deaden the sound as well as to smooth out the airflow under the car.
I am speaking from first hand experience and refitting the undertray on an FSI of mine DID make a noticeable difference.

Steve B
 
@Birchall
I'll bow to your first hand experience. I'd not thought of the FSI engine as noisy, as in drowning out the radio.
For the engine oilly bits to be that loud, seems odd, hence suggesting a scan.
Do you think engine mounts could be shot?
Mac.
 
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