2004 1.6 FSI Sport HELP....compression

N8P

Member
A big hello to you all!, been browsing the site for a wee while but took the plunge & just bought my first A2 a 2004 1.6 FSI Sport, which i drove back up from London at the weekend returning a pleasant 44.9mpg over the 504 mile journey back up to scotland.

So have notice a flat spot lets call it a hesitation in the acceleration curve, it happens throughout the gear range. So when you put your foot gently on the accelerator & she pulls away smoothly then seems to plateau before regaining acceleration. For me this happen at 2.2 -2.7rpm then off she goes... i have been using shell v power.

Between 2.2 -2.7rpm it developed a judder when accelerating if you keep the revs below 2.2 & above 2.7 its fine, however if say i slow down in 2nd & the revs full between 2.2 -2.7rpm it sort of boggs down (& plateaus) with this judder. Its fine when im in 1st & pulling away, or like i said above 2.7k between gear change but otherwise its the same in every gear & there are also no lights on the dash. The car has been serviced every year or thereabouts, runs fine & once you reach the speed you want she seems to hold it fine. No dash warning lights & DIS confirms 'OK' as well.

Ok so many posts on the forum speak about the following any thoughts??

1. Map Controlled Engine Cooling Thermostat?
2. Inlet Manifold?
2. Missfire possibly coil pack or coil unit?
3. Could it possibly a dirty throttle body miss fueling?
4. Fuel Filter?
5. Something as simple as taking the plugs out & giving them a clean?
6. Aiir leaks such as cap off/dip stick out/ vac line unconnected?

So to answer my own question I need to start by getting a VCDS scan done ASAP to see if that throws up any further error codes.
To be totally honest the seller did provided me with a photo of the OBD2 scan which was my starting point for this post & above info.

17700 163 KWP 1281 03/03
MAP CONTROLLED
ENGINE COOLING
THERMOSTAT (265)
OPEN CIRCUIT P1292

Is there anyone in the North East of Scotland that can do a VCDS scan for me?

Thanks in advance
N8P
 

audifan

A2OC Donor
I am pretty sure there will be someone up there that can help you out. Certainly owning your own VCDS will be an advantage to you over the coming months and years. Cheapest is VCDS Lite a free download which needs a KKL cable either cheap ( make sure it quotes VCDS lite ) on ebay or a far better cable from Gendan. Lite can be registered for more functionality at a price £75 ish. Or you could go fully fat VCDS 3 VIN version to the most expensive latest unlimited VIN version. Pop along to Ross Techs site for more information and options. You could also pick up a used genuine version again or auction sites.
The above information is worth investigating further.
 

Andrew

A2OC Donor
As per Audifan, if you have just the FSI and hence no other cars to consider the VCDS Lite Registered is an excellent choice. I know there are several members round the Aberdeen area but I do not know if they have VCDS and certainly they are are not on the Free Scan Register, in fact the coverage of Scotland is a bit thin to say the least! Any more volunteer scanners in Scotland???? (PM me to be added). In the meantime you could always open a separate thread for an appeal for a scan, 'Scan needed please, Aberdeen area'.

I will come back tomorrow if time allows about the thermostat fault, do you intend to do any work yourself?

Andy
 

N8P

Member
Just a quick update when out driving today still no engine management light however still the flat spot.

Can only be describe it as - a hesitation in the acceleration curve between 2.2 & 2.7rpm followed by a judder which develops (as noted before) bogging the car down but i can now hear a rattle, clicky or tinny flappy noise only within that rev range.

Once out of the 2.7rpm regains acceleration pulling up through the rest of the curve.

What is this rattle, clicky or tinny flappy noise? Any thoughts
 

Andrew

A2OC Donor
Just a quick update when out driving today still no engine management light however still the flat spot.

Can only be describe it as - a hesitation in the acceleration curve between 2.2 & 2.7rpm followed by a judder which develops (as noted before) bogging the car down but i can now hear a rattle, clicky or tinny flappy noise only within that rev range.

Once out of the 2.7rpm regains acceleration pulling up through the rest of the curve.

What is this rattle, clicky or tinny flappy noise? Any thoughts
Apologies, I never did come to back to you on the thermostat, but I doubt that is the cause of the hesitation.

Sorry nobody has stepped forward to offer a scan, I will bump your appeal on your other thread, but until a scan all will be just speculation.

To speculate! This is a very common FSI problem and as soon as I read your first post I thought manifold flaps. I do not think anyone knows the exact rpm when the ECU opens the flaps but experience would suggest it is not far off the range you quote. I did read not too long ago of an FSI with a broken vacuum actuator arm, the result of which meant there was nothing to pin the flaps open and therefore free to rest on the floor of the inlet ports. The owner claimed they rattled. Pointless speculation over.

If you have a Microsoft laptop download the free VCDS Lite, buy OBD cable. It will give codes but not full information but something to go on is better than nothing!

Andy
 
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These are my thoughts too, put through a tank or so of 99 octane fuel as Terry said even a fuel injector cleaner as well and the Italian tune ups.
I'm assuming all 4 coils are firing at idle and you not running on 3? you don't want to be washing your bores with unburnt fuel. You could also check right now if the inlet manifold flaps connecting rod is attached and not broken and make sure the vacuum pipe is connected to the N316 valve.

index.php


If after this the car is still playing up then it really would be time to get a vcds done.
 

Phil FSI

Member
Does it have to be a ‘Microsoft’ laptop or a laptop which can run Microsoft?
Sorry if this is confusing but just looked on eBay now and Microsoft laptops are a bit pricey
 

PlasticMac

Member
Does it have to be a ‘Microsoft’ laptop or a laptop which can run Microsoft?
Sorry if this is confusing but just looked on eBay now and Microsoft laptops are a bit pricey

Any Windows pc, XP to W10 inclusive,will run VCDS Lite. Any old machine will do. Mines a 10 year old netbook. Works fine. KKL lead under a tenner on flea bay.
Mac.
 

ANDYT

Member
Any Windows pc, XP to W10 inclusive,will run VCDS Lite. Any old machine will do. Mines a 10 year old netbook. Works fine. KKL lead under a tenner on flea bay.
Mac.
Hi, I had exactly the same problem, all new coils, several tanks of v-max, no engine light ( and yes, the bulb is there and working !), still a hesitation at the same revs. Fitted an A2Steve proboost ecu, cured the problem completely !!
Cheers, Andy.
 

N8P

Member
Hello All

Ok so i have got an update on my 2004 1.6 FSI Sport, i now have an engine management light, but to be honest it wasn't the EML. I'm just hoping for some more advice & possible direction?

Especially as more i ask Google the more i find more FSI problems! However thats not such a bad thing, perhaps i should've done some better research before buying or perhaps im slightly unlucky with this A2 or should of got a TDi as one member said?

But to be honest the car hasn't done much mileage in the last 4 years (6k) today we're on 116671 miles, Nov19 115,336 miles, Nov18 114,771 miles, Nov17 110,205 miles, Nov16 100,759 miles, Nov15 93,573 miles & so on. The info on the car prior to me was the last owner (family) had it for 10 years, (& the A2 has had 4 owners in total) generally had serviced each year, every year at the same garage. Backed up by various stickers found around the engine bay & door strut identifing what had been done along with loads of receipts from Audi & the Indie.

At the point when i was viewing the A2 & with full history known, & even family member advising of the 99Ron, i duly purchased it from the Family & drove it back up to Scotland some 500 odd miles. Quite a nice drive apart from the engine 'hesitation & the rattle'. So in part i thought i knew it's history with regard to servicing, fuel type, treatment, etc etc.

So in my search of resolving this rough & lumpy idle, & hesitation which kind of judders, bogging down the A2 between 2.2 & 2.7rpm it develops this rattle, clicky or tinny flappy noise. I'm not sure if all is related to the same thing?

Ok, so yesterday i managed to get my A2 scanned through a friend of a friend, as noted below.
IMG_4009.jpg


It also highlighted this

IMG_4011.jpg

and this but i guess this could be self explanatory ?

IMG_4010.jpg


Before i go any further, from what other members had previously advised (prior to my scan), i would like to share the following

1. I've put through a tank or so of 99 octane fuel & it didn't really make much difference.
2. I've probably done to many Italian tune ups!! Doesn't seemed to have done much to the running of engine, i feel.
3. I haven't used any injector cleaner just yet... perhaps i should do more Italian tune ups using this stuff?
4. I've changed out the ex. spark plugs for new Bosch ones & i think that has made a small difference (pulls better) which i was hoping would be the case as it looked like the plugs had been in for a few years?
5. I haven't changed or even looked at the current fuel filter yet, should i have?
6. At this stage i haven't assessed the injectors, air filters, fuel pressure, lambda 1 & 2, or intake manifold (i wouldn't know how) to be honest but happy to learn? Again should i have check these?

Ok so once the results of the Scan was known, the mechanic (friend of a friend) whom kindly fitted me in, set about the following.

7. Swopped over the coil packs to see if number 4 would spark in cylinder 3 (is number 4 the furthest away from engine oil filler)? But it didn't make any difference, & it seemed that each coil pack was sparking ok & when coil pack 4 was removed out of cylinder it didn't seem to effect the running of the engine - possibly suggesting it was running on three cylinders still lumpy!

8. Although they were new spark plugs the mechanic whipped them out & check each spark plug, again number 4 spark plug from its cylinder was slightly wet with oil unlike the rest. He did the 'sniff test', noting that it smelt oily & not of fuel.

9. Mechanic decided that he would use his borescope & thought he could see some oil sitting dished in the bottom of cylinder 4? So it seems like all 4 coils are firing/sparking at idle but only 3 cylinders are running, as number 4 is contaminated with oil or unburnt fuel? Help...

10. I haven't checked the inlet manifold flaps connecting rod to see if it is attached or broken, but think its on the lefthand side of the engine block slightly down right of the wiper spindle? is that right?

Below is photo from last week of the engine which as you can see hasn't been cleaned yet but thats least of my worries!
my a2 engine.jpg


11. Unfortunately the Mechanic seemed to think it was game over with this A2 because of failure of oil present? As it would be uneconomical to diagnose then fix & as such probably couldn't be fixed /sorted quickly & at minimal cost.

Googling again - some posts speak about a liquid gasket failed & oil in cylinders? So fellow knowledgable members &/or long term 1.6 FSI owners, where should i go with this. Just to reiterate once again - once past 2.7rpm it regains acceleration pulling up through the rest of the curve. There is no smoke, blue or white, on start up or running, i do smell alittle fuel around the car when ticking over & strangely it seemed a little low of coolant a couple of days ago & so topped it up & i'll keep an eye on it.

Ok so my ex-mechanic friend whom put me in touch with the garage mechanic whom did the scan, didn't think or expect the oil scenario & wondered about doing/performing a compression test? is that a good idea?

Otherwise what's the alternatives apart from firstly doing the above items 6 & 10, is it breaking it up or selling it on... i don't want to do either to be honest. Please note MOT is up in one weeks time unfortunately!

Thanks for reading if you got this far!
N8P.
 
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Andrew

A2OC Donor
Hi @N8P,

I got to the end of your post it was a pleasure to read, thank you.

It's late no time to reply properly, I will come back tomorrow and comment if I think I can add to any replies by then you may have received.

For info on inlet manifold suggest you read the P1031 thread, forum search 'fault p1031' will find it.

Andy
 

dj_efk

A2OC Donor
Did the garage do a compression check with the plugs out and the throttle wide open? This will tell you straight away whether the engine is fundamentally (I.e. mechanically) sound. That would be my first action before doing anything else.
 

Andrew

A2OC Donor
So much I could say but decided to keep it brief.

Agree with the last post next step is a compression test to assess engine integrity. It should not be expensive as it does not take long and post readings here.

I assume the dash light is the ABS system, no way round this except to fix before the MOT. While on dash lights does the yellow EML illuminate briefly at startup?

Monitor the coolant level in what looks like a newish coolant tank.

Andy
 

Evripidis

Member
Same over here. No misfires and the flaps are fully operational. Flatspot like yours. Higher octane fuel helped a bit. The only sensor at fault at the moment is the nox sensor which would leave me with a high pressure fuel pump rebuild or a complete removal of the head for a cleanup. But really, the flatspot would have been the least of my worries on the 1.6.
 

N8P

Member
Thanks @Andrew unfortunately not, its just the EML, the ABS has only ever came on when i'd touched the brake at 10mph in Halford carpark of all places to get my radio keys!!
1605800718252.jpeg

As for the EML light it only currently blinking circ. 10 times & then goes out for 30 seconds before its back on blinking? I think i have had it on constantly only once out & about, that was only after a few Italian tune ups! its just strange on my way back up to Scotland at no point did the EML come on, then it was just the hestiatation thing.

Thanks again @Andrew for the inlet manifold suggested 'P1031 thread' although not read all 13 pages yet - certainly easies me a little to think how the evolution of this problem is slowly being resolved by other members - hopefully by the end of the read it is a happy end !!!!

Regarding my FSI yes i will speak with my mechanic friend to see about the compression test as he had suggested previously, just to confirm the garage didn't do any compression check with the plugs out & the throttle wide open? Excuse my ignorance but is that the only way to do that?

@dj_efk yes i do need to find out whether the engine is fundamentally (mechanically) sound first, especially as i have bought a few items off @A2Steve & @Clackers & the mot will be up in a weeks time

Cheers
N8P
 

N8P

Member
HI Guys

Its been a wee while since I last gave an update on the above, so after 'Scanning' the car was done & new spark plugs were checked over it was felt cylinder 4 spark plug was slightly wet with oil (& smelt oily & not of fuel). Used a borescope & could see what looks like oil sitting dished in the bottom?

So we did a compression test & the results were as follows
cylinder 1 - 145
cylinder 2 - 175
cylinder 3 - 185
cylinder 4 - 0........

Slightly disappointed as i just bought it a couple of months ago, okay it was going to be a project car, wasn't terribly expensive it needs some new panels & some fixing up of various items here & there, aswell as having the typical little niggles as we all have possibly experienced. But given that I had driven it up from London to Sunny Scotland a few months ago & bought knowing it had this slight hesitation before anyone asks. i thought it may be a relatively simple fix unfortunately it isn't the case, well i don't think it is with my limited mechanical knowledge.

Does this mean it's game over for this car?
The car is now out of MOT only has 115k miles, i'm the fifth owner & last owner had it for ten years.

So looking for some advice regarding Next Step & what my options are?

Hope you can help
Thank you :(
 

PlasticMac

Member
Best keep an eye out here :
Mac.
 
It's highly unlikely that bore wear is your issue here. I think it's more likely that the cam belt has gone at some time and you have a bent valve. Get the head off and inspect further. A single bent valve is an easy fix.
 
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