A front top mount question.

The sport \ se rie height mystery continues......;-) who knows 😆

One things for sure if your shock are factory still, change it all if you can afford to as the difference is huge. The standard shock and prints are awesome quality so are still passing mot's but the ride they now posess is dreadfully wooden.
 
Yep, I kinda agree.
However, after doing a complete renewal front and back of every bit of the suspension, it all sits really square and 'fresh'
The drive and comfort is fabulous.
 
carlston said:
Like others have said, all the Audi A2 models (including the 1.2TDI) use the same top mount. So if the Sport models have lower front suspension (I haven't confirmed this, but maybe others have and it seems likely because the Sport models have thinner front rubber buffers) then I suspect the front shock absorbers are shorter on the Sport models...or in some way cause the lowering of the front ride height.

Non-Sport models have the following OEM part numbers for the front shock absorbers
8Z0413031AB
8Z0413031AD

Sport models have the following OEM part numbers for the front shock absorbers
8Z0413031P
8Z0413031AC

Bilstein list front shock absorbers with part number 22-105813 for non-Sport models and 22-196309 for Sport models. I haven't confirmed whether the 22-196309 model will drop the front ride height or not, or whether it closely matches the 8Z0413031P and 8Z0413031AC OEM part numbers.

One owner said that they removed original front springs from their 1.4TDI with OEM part number 6Q0411105AD and this isn't a short spring. I don't know if their 1.4TDI had OSS or not, but in any case any lower ride height of the Sport models is therefore not down to them using shorter springs.

Therefore, I suspect the lowering of the front ride height on Sport models (if it is indeed lower) is down to the front shock absorbers causing the lowering. This is unusual for VAG cars, because normally VAG (on non-Audi A2 cars) uses shorter front springs to cause the lower ride height, not the front shock absorbers.

Perhaps the only way to find out for sure is to compare (8Z0413031AB or 8Z0413031AD) with (8Z0413031P or 8Z0413031AC) side by side.

Or perhaps compare Bilstein B4 22-105813 (for non-Sport models) and with Bilstein B4 22-196309 (for Sport models) side by side...but with these two Bilstein front shock absorbers being aftermarket they might not be a very close match to the original Audi A2 front shock absorbers...although there is hope because Bilstein have gone to the trouble of listing two different front shock absorbers for the non-Sport and Sport models.

Bilstein are also selling their 22-196309 for the Fabia MK1 with sports suspension (ie. lowered ride height), therefore I doubt this front shock absorber would lower the front ride height on the Audi A2 because the Fabia MK1 tends to use shorter front springs to lower the ride height, ie. not shorter front shock absorbers. Perhaps the only advantage of using this front shock absorber on the Audi A2 is to get firmer damping...but that's not always an advantage, especially when the damping becomes too firm as that would simply slow the speed at which the front suspension can move up and down.
Click to expand...
The Sport definitely does have a lower ride height. Mine's a Sport, with original springs and shocks, and is lower than non Sport by about 25 mm.
I can only see that this is achieved by shorter shocks.
The shocks probably pre load the springs, to limit the max extension, but I have no detailed knowledge.
I suspect that most buyers of shocks do not realise there are two types, and most sellers only list one, probably the standard
8Z0413031AB and 8Z0413031AD.
Not 8Z0413031AB and 8Z0413031AC.
So, contrary to perceived wisdom, (mine included), it may be that the shocks govern ride height, and not the springs ...
Mac.
 
PlasticMac said:
The Sport definitely does have a lower ride height. Mine's a Sport, with original springs and shocks, and is lower than non Sport by about 25 mm.
I can only see that this is achieved by shorter shocks.
The shocks probably pre load the springs, to limit the max extension, but I have no detailed knowledge.
I suspect that most buyers of shocks do not realise there are two types, and most sellers only list one, probably the standard
8Z0413031AB and 8Z0413031AD.
Not 8Z0413031AB and 8Z0413031AC.
So, contrary to perceived wisdom, (mine included), it may be that the shocks govern ride height, and not the springs ...
Mac.
Click to expand...
If you jack up one of the wheels on a Sport (or a non-Sport), the shock absorber will extend quite a bit before the wheel finally lifts off the ground.

Therefore, the shock absorber isn't limiting the ride height by constraining the spring. This would actually be a very bad state of affairs because you don't want a fully extended shock absorber in an unladen car (or a laden car for that matter), which is called having zero sag...and car's aren't set up with zero sag in their suspension.
 
So, the difference between the Sport and non Sport shocks is, probably, in the damping rate only. Ride height is down to springs.
I've just looked at an ebay Bilstein seller, and the only front shocks that are spec'd for an A2 are the standard ones. So, it's likely that anyone replacing shocks on a Sport, will end up with non Sport.
Mac.
 
Just to clarify - due to the lack of the page in 7zap for the TDI front axle, the above is only confirmed for the petrols, correct ?
 
dj_efk said:
Just to clarify - due to the lack of the page in 7zap for the TDI front axle, the above is only confirmed for the petrols, correct ?
Click to expand...
The 7 Zap image below includes AMF, so not just petrols, does that help?
I've messaged Bilstein, asking for the differences between Sport and non Sport shocks.
We'll see if I get a response.
Mac.
1727340722802.png
 
Wow, answer back from Bilstein:

"The sports shock absorber are physically shorter than the standard one.

Fitting a standard shock on vehicle that is originally fitted with a sport suspension is not ideal. The springs won't likely get the correct preload and will definitely mess up your vehicles handling"

So, that's clear then, and, obviously, not specific to Bilstein.
Care needed when ordering.
Mac.
 
More from Bilstein.
For Sport cars, - I based my enquiry on my car, which is a Sport.
It looks like Sport owners are the ones likely to end up with the wrong units.

B8: https://www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk/products/35-052180

www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk

Rear Bilstein B8 - Sprint Shock Absorber - 24-067904

Rear Bilstein B8 - Sprint Shock Absorber - 24-067904 Bilstein shocks.co.uk have thousands of Bilstein suspension products listed to purchase with FAST FREE UK DELIVERY
www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk

B4: https://www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk/products/22-196309

www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk

Rear Bilstein B4 - Gas Shock Absorber - 19-106120

Rear Bilstein B4 - Gas Shock Absorber - 19-106120 Bilstein shocks.co.uk have thousands of Bilstein suspension products listed to purchase with FAST FREE UK DELIVERY
www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk
Edit: Bilstein say the above B4 rear shock is OK for both Sport and Standard. Only the fronts are different.
Mac.
 
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CrispyEdd said:
The sport \ se rie height mystery continues......;-) who knows 😆

One things for sure if your shock are factory still, change it all if you can afford to as the difference is huge. The standard shock and prints are awesome quality so are still passing mot's but the ride they now posess is dreadfully wooden.
Click to expand...
So, the mystery is, probably, solved Edd. Sport cars must have Sport * Front shocks.
Most online offerings are Standard not Sport, so shouldn't be supplied if your car is a Sport.
This applies to all shock brands, although not all aftermarket brands will recognise the difference I suspect.
Mac.
*Edited.
 
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After a lot of "research" I think that Sport spec cars have lower front suspension only, the rear is the same on all cars.
My Sport is 330 mm front, and 350 mm rear.
If anyone with original, standard suspension could check, (wheel centre to underside of wheel arch), to be sure, that would be great.
Mac.
 
PlasticMac said:
After a lot of "research" I think that Sport spec cars have lower front suspension only, the rear is the same on all cars.
My Sport is 330 mm front, and 350 mm rear.
If anyone with original, standard suspension could check, (wheel centre to underside of wheel arch), to be sure, that would be great.
Mac.
Click to expand...
How old are your springs and top mounts etc?
 
I remember the feeling of disappointment when I changed my suspension because of it sitting higher than I'd have liked. What I'd not considered before was the springs on the old suspension had bits broken giving it a nicer looking ride height.
The good thing is, it now has a decent ride but I'd definitely take the time in future to find the sport suspension.
If the driver side mount wasn't such a nightmare I'd maybe tackle it
 
Buchanan DTR said:
I remember the feeling of disappointment when I changed my suspension because of it sitting higher than I'd have liked. What I'd not considered before was the springs on the old suspension had bits broken giving it a nicer looking ride height.
The good thing is, it now has a decent ride but I'd definitely take the time in future to find the sport suspension.
If the driver side mount wasn't such a nightmare I'd maybe tackle it
Click to expand...
I suspect a lot of Sport owners have been supplied with, and fitted, the longer, incorrect front shocks, regardless of brand.
The result is the front being about 20 mm higher than it should be, and possibly less than optimal handling.
The "enter your reg number" lookup on many retail sites are not as comprehensive as the Bilstein online selector I posted earlier.
This is not restricted to suspension parts either.
Mac.
 
PlasticMac said:
So, the difference between the Sport and non Sport shocks is, probably, in the damping rate only. Ride height is down to springs.
Click to expand...

The front springs on the Sport aren't shorter.

Any lowering must be caused by the front shock absorbers being shorter...but not in the way that Bilstein means.

Bilstein sell sport front shock absorbers that don't extend as much as standard ride height front shock absorbers...they don't need to extend as much because they are made to be used in conjunction with shorter front springs. If you fit the Audi A2 Sport front springs in a Bilstein sports front shock absorber the front ride height will be standard ride height not lower. Most VAG cars that have sports suspension (ie. lowered ride height) get their lowering by using shorter springs, but the Audi A2 Sport appears to get its front lowered ride height by the front shock absorbers being shorter in a way that lowers the ride height with standard ride height front springs.

Until recently, Bilstein didn't offer front shock absorbers for the Audi A2 Sport model...and it looks like the ones they are now listing for the Sport model aren't really appropriate because I doubt the front ride height will be anything other than standard ride height if using the Sport front springs. Sachs don't list any front shock absorbers for the Audi A2 Sport model, so they are being more honest than Bilstein and not pretending they have front shock absorbers that will give lowered ride height with the Audi A2 Sport front springs. I suspect anyone fitting the Bilstein sport front shock absorbers to their Sport will be disappointed and find that the front ride height becomes standard ride height if using the standard Sport front springs.
 
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carlston said:
The front springs on the Sport aren't shorter.

Any lowering must be caused by the front shock absorbers being shorter...but not in the way that Bilstein means.

Bilstein sell sport front shock absorbers that don't extend as much as standard ride height front shock absorbers...they don't need to extend as much because they are made to be used in conjunction with shorter front springs. If you fit the Audi A2 Sport front springs in a Bilstein sports front shock absorber the front ride height will be standard ride height not lower. Most VAG cars that have sports suspension (ie. lowered ride height) get their lowering by using shorter springs, but the Audi A2 Sport appears to get its front lowered ride height by the front shock absorbers being shorter in a way that lowers the ride height with standard ride height front springs.

Until recently, Bilstein didn't offer front shock absorbers for the Audi A2 Sport model...and it looks like the ones they are now listing for the Sport model aren't really appropriate because I doubt the front ride height will be anything other than standard ride height if using the Sport front springs. Sachs don't list any front shock absorbers for the Audi A2 Sport model, so they are being more honest than Bilstein and not pretending they have front shock absorbers that will give lowered ride height with the Audi A2 Sport front springs. I suspect anyone fitting the Bilstein sport front shock absorbers to their Sport will be disappointed and find that the front ride height becomes standard ride height if using the standard Sport front springs.
Click to expand...
@carlston if it's OK with you, I'll ask Dominique at [email protected] to comment on your thoughts.
Let me know if you agree.
Mac
 
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