A scare today followed timing belt change and oil drain!!

D

datsundrew

A2OC Donor
So a total drama this afternoon that me doubting my knowledge and ability!!
As you may have seen in my post ‘another A2 on the road to recovery’ I have been doing a lot of work on the recent purchased black A2.
New suspension etc etc, and I decided to send my Ecu off to be ‘looked at’😀
Whilst it’s out of action I replaced the timing belt and left the oil to drain for 2 days as it was black!
The Ecu turned up in the post this afternoon, so I stuck 4 litres of oil in it to flush it through, plug in the ECU and start it up, it runs beautifully and I go to the front to check for leaks etc then a hell of a clattering, sounded like the timing belt had slipped..proper valves hitting piston noise, than ran rough, misfired and stalled!!😱😱

Complete panic, rip the covers off expecting to see the belt slack, but it’s fine. Try starting it and it made that awful no compression noise, spinning over with a regular hiccup,
I Hook up compression tester through the glow plugs….cylinders 1 and 2 nothing, cylinder 3…..400 psi!
I’m now assuming I’ve really f%%ed it up, and Recheck timing, put nylon tube down cylinder 1 and turn crank to TDC, check cam and insert pin, all ok, and my extra tippex marks line up too??
Decide it’s broken anyway so try to start it, and it’s slow to turn over, connect the jump pack and it spins fast, splutters into life on 1 cylinder and sounds awful then the rattle stopped and it ran absolutely fine.
I think all the oil drained from the lifters, preventing the valves opening, and the delay in oil get to them was slower than the cam beating the oil out of them? It gave me a big scare and put my on a proper downer, but it was just a big drama!!😱😱
 

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datsundrew said:
So a total drama this afternoon that me doubting my knowledge and ability!!
As you may have seen in my post ‘another A2 on the road to recovery’ I have been doing a lot of work on the recent purchased black A2.
New suspension etc etc, and I decided to send my Ecu off to be ‘looked at’😀
Whilst it’s out of action I replaced the timing belt and left the oil to drain for 2 days as it was black!
The Ecu turned up in the post this afternoon, so I stuck 4 litres of oil in it to flush it through, plug in the ECU and start it up, it runs beautifully and I go to the front to check for leaks etc then a hell of a clattering, sounded like the timing belt had slipped..proper valves hitting piston noise, than ran rough, misfired and stalled!!😱😱

Complete panic, rip the covers off expecting to see the belt slack, but it’s fine. Try starting it and it made that awful no compression noise, spinning over with a regular hiccup,
I Hook up compression tester through the glow plugs….cylinders 1 and 2 nothing, cylinder 3…..400 psi!
I’m now assuming I’ve really f%%ed it up, and Recheck timing, put nylon tube down cylinder 1 and turn crank to TDC, check cam and insert pin, all ok, and my extra tippex marks line up too??
Decide it’s broken anyway so try to start it, and it’s slow to turn over, connect the jump pack and it spins fast, splutters into life on 1 cylinder and sounds awful then the rattle stopped and it ran absolutely fine.
I think all the oil drained from the lifters, preventing the valves opening, and the delay in oil get to them was slower than the cam beating the oil out of them? It gave me a big scare and put my on a proper downer, but it was just a big drama!!😱😱
Click to expand...
Jeez! Brown underpants moment. Moral of the story don’t drain the oil down and leave it too long? But what is the difference when you leave the car for weeks without starting it? The oil would have drained into the sump anyway??? Weird one
 
Chris Warren said:
Jeez! Brown underpants moment. Moral of the story don’t drain the oil down and leave it too long? But what is the difference when you leave the car for weeks without starting it? The oil would have drained into the sump anyway??? Weird one
Click to expand...
I know! It’s just very odd. I almost rang you hen it happened to see if you had any ideas on it. Jim was here with me too. It was a mystery and a scary one!!
 
For first start of a petrol engine after extensive work on it or after a very long stand I start it like this.
Drain some oil, pour it back in the top.
Remove plugs and oil filter
Earth plugs or disable ignition
Disable fuel supply
Crank to prime oil pump, can be messy but leave it
Fit pre filled oil canister, crank for oil pressure.
Fit plugs and enable ignition
Enable fuel supply, prime pumps
Turn ignition key.

For the first time I have a fully stripped diesel engine and I’ve not yet worked out the equivalent procedure. Leave the glow plugs out and introduce air to the tandem pump?

To determine if this problem was hydraulic lifters you need to turn the cam on a head that is off the block with dry lifters. If the cam turns without lifting the valves you have your answer. I will have this situation, hopefully in the not too distant future, and will check.

Edit, I should have mentioned I adopted this starting procedure following a, similar to yours, brown underpant moment many years ago following a timing belt and lifter change.
 
Last edited:
More thoughts on the subject, things i can check.
When the oil filter is removed does the oil pump also drain?
Can the filter canister be pre filled with fresh oil after a filter change?
Can the oil pick up become restricted? It’s fine in my case but can an engine create a beever dam of dipstick ends or just get sludged up?
All of this, or lack of, would stop oil getting to the lifters quickly.
 
Little Dog said:
For first start of a petrol engine after extensive work on it or after a very long stand I start it like this.
Drain some oil, pour it back in the top.
Remove plugs and oil filter
Earth plugs or disable ignition
Disable fuel supply
Crank to prime oil pump, can be messy but leave it
Fit pre filled oil canister, crank for oil pressure.
Fit plugs and enable ignition
Enable fuel supply, prime pumps
Turn ignition key.

For the first time I have a fully stripped diesel engine and I’ve not yet worked out the equivalent procedure. Leave the glow plugs out and introduce air to the tandem pump?

To determine if this problem was hydraulic lifters you need to turn the cam on a head that is off the block with dry lifters. If the cam turns without lifting the valves you have your answer. I will have this situation, hopefully in the not too distant future, and will check.

Edit, I should have mentioned I adopted this starting procedure following a, similar to yours, brown underpant moment many years ago following a timing belt and lifter change.
Click to expand...
I did have similar on an astra mk 1 many years ago, helping a friend, those early Vauxhall engines had bad camshafts, and so we replaced it and the lifters. The instructions said to prime them in oil before fitting which being 19 didn’t seen to important…..until we went to start it! Zero compression, and we had to tow it to get the oil flowing, it rattled a bit and was fine😱
 
Glad it's sorted Drew and hope there are no long term repercussions.

Back in my youth I once took a worn gearbox out of an Austin 1100. Took one look at the complexity and asked my Dad to take it his company's garage and ask them to fix it. They weren't happy doing it and it was a week or so before I got it back. When reassembling I thought I might as well change the big end shell bearings. Dunderhead me didn't pre-oil them and like you the engine had drained itself dry. So despite filling will new oil it was quite a noise starting up and I thought that was the end of it. But it settled down and lasted many years before the rust eat it away. Scary moment. 😱
 
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