A2 TDi 90 - 10 years on. The good and bad news ( DUAL MASS FLYWHEEL)

Final update to this thread now the job is all finished. I've still to add my pretty ropey pictures - which I'll put on my gallery and link on here.

The main purpose of this wee report is to give some comfort and help to other TDi 90 owners who will come across problems with the DMF component of the ATL engine. From discussion with the most impressive mechanic who worked on Ada, it's really a matter of when these will go faulty - not if.

Therefore, as the car gets older, I'm concerned that all but the most stalwart enthusiast may be frightened off by some of the quotes for carrying out this work - with main dealer franchises likely to ask in the region of £1600 as stated by Nigel earlier in the thread.

Having observed the whole task start to finish, the first thing I'd say is that this is no DIY job unless you've got some serious hardware. The engine doesn't have to come out to access the offending parts, but you definitely need the car on a ramp or over a pit and means to support the engine while the gearbox is removed.

I had this work done at the same time as a new cambelt fitted and a full service. So altogether the car feels very much rejuvenated. I didn't realise how worn the DMF had become and this did increase noise and vibration markedly, but I don't drive the car that often really and my beloved Mrs wouldn't notice changes in noise levels unless the exhaust had fallen off or similar!!

Summary is I would do it all again tomorrow, and with some shopping around, you can definitely secure this job for well below dealer costs - but you are still looking at the guts of £800 to £1000. I'd estimate this to be a minimum of 6 hours labour and that's with no hitches and techs who are really familiar with the car. Perhaps one of our mechanical gurus can confirm or correct this?

Yes, ~£1000 bill may still put some people off the car and have them looking to do a quick part exchange - but for me with a car that is so under the skin as the A2 - it's a definite investment and the starting point for me spending the next decade restoring the car as close to 'as new' as I can afford so I can continue to enjoy this brilliant little piece of engineering and have a show car into my retirement when it comes :cool:

Anyhoo - the parts you need.

LUK part number 417 0047 10 - ( £411 from Euro car parts)

This is the clutch and DMF together. For my money it's false economy not to replace the clutch when the car is so disassembled anyway.

Audi part number A02A 141 180 A ( £15.82 from Audi)

This is a guide sleeve which was pretty worn so glad I went with Spike's advice. Thanks Mr. P ;)

LUK Part number 644440050 ( £12.60 from Euro Car Parts)

This is the clutch release bearing and it was totally goosed. In fact the tech demonstrated the wear on the DMF when he was removing it, and it was pretty near the point of collapsing. If it does have a catastrophic fail I'm advised that this will also damage the gearbox. Again, I'd appreciate one of our tech people advising on the accuracy of that?

Moral is - if you have a 90 and it starts making odd noises from the transmission - get it checked out PDQ.

I realise now I've never stated the actual symptoms for future reference.

*Vibration and percussive grinding noise when car is idling.

* Juddering through clutch pedal when disengaging/engaging - especially when moving off from a standstill

* General increase in noise and vibration which you may/may not notice as it's a progressive thing ( or was for me anyway)

Hope this helps fellow TDI 90 owners. I'll edit a link to photos as stated.

Final point - would I avoid the 90 because of this issue? NO CHANCE! - I've driven lots of Audi's and the 'other car' is a Q5, but there is no fun for me like a remapped A2 TDi 90. It pulls like a train and always brings a smile to my face.

Here's to the next 20 years!
 
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Final update to this thread now the job is all finished. I've still to add my pretty ropey pictures - which I'll put on my gallery and link on here.

The main purpose of this wee report is to give some comfort and help to other TDi 90 owners who will come across problems with the DMF component of the ATL engine. From discussion with the most impressive mechanic who worked on Ada, it's really a matter of when these will go faulty - not if.

Therefore, as the car gets older, I'm concerned that all but the most stalwart enthusiast may be frightened off by some of the quotes for carrying out this work - with main dealer franchises likely to ask in the region of £1600 as stated by Nigel earlier in the thread.

Having observed the whole task start to finish, the first thing I'd say is that this is no DIY job unless you've got some serious hardware. The engine doesn't have to come out to access the offending parts, but you definitely need the car on a ramp or over a pit and means to support the engine while the gearbox is removed.

I had this work done at the same time as a new cambelt fitted and a full service. So altogether the car feels very much rejuvenated. I didn't realise how worn the DMF had become and this did increase noise and vibration markedly, but I don't drive the car that often really and my beloved Mrs wouldn't notice changes in noise levels unless the exhaust had fallen off or similar!!

Summary is I would do it all again tomorrow, and with some shopping around, you can definitely secure this job for well below dealer costs - but you are still looking at the guts of £800 to £1000. I'd estimate this to be a minimum of 6 hours labour and that's with no hitches and techs who are really familiar with the car. Perhaps one of our mechanical gurus can confirm or correct this?

Yes, ~£1000 bill may still put some people off the car and have them looking to do a quick part exchange - but for me with a car that is so under the skin as the A2 - it's a definite investment and the starting point for me spending the next decade restoring the car as close to 'as new' as I can afford so I can continue to enjoy this brilliant little piece of engineering and have a show car into my retirement when it comes :cool:

Anyhoo - the parts you need.

LUK part number 417 0047 10 - ( £411 from Euro car parts)

This is the clutch and DMF together. For my money it's false economy not to replace the clutch when the car is so disassembled anyway.

Audi part number A02A 141 180 A ( £15.82 from Audi)

This is a guide sleeve which was pretty worn so glad I went with Spike's advice. Thanks Mr. P ;)

LUK Part number 644440050 ( £12.60 from Euro Car Parts)

This is the clutch release bearing and it was totally goosed. In fact the tech demonstrated the wear on the DMF when he was removing it, and it was pretty near the point of collapsing. If it does have a catastrophic fail I'm advised that this will also damage the gearbox. Again, I'd appreciate one of our tech people advising on the accuracy of that?

Moral is - if you have a 90 and it starts making odd noises from the transmission - get it checked out PDQ.

I realise now I've never stated the actual symptoms for future reference.

*Vibration and percussive grinding noise when car is idling.

* Juddering through clutch pedal when disengaging/engaging - especially when moving off from a standstill

* General increase in noise and vibration which you may/may not notice as it's a progressive thing ( or was for me anyway)

Hope this helps fellow TDI 90 owners. I'll edit a link to photos as stated.

Final point - would I avoid the 90 because of this issue? NO CHANCE! - I've driven lots of Audi's and the 'other car' is a Q5, but there is no fun for me like a remapped A2 TDi 90. It pulls like a train and always brings a smile to my face.

Here's to the next day 20 years!
Love this very informative guide,im a newby owner,(one week,almost)....and first day my door stay needed repairing,..BUT now the rattle I thought was something or nothing,seems to be coming from my clutch..When I depress and relese it makes a noise, it doesn't slip/vibrate or shudder....and drives fine my gears are silky smooth to get too....Hmmmm !!
 
Love this very informative guide,im a newby owner,(one week,almost)....and first day my door stay needed repairing,..BUT now the rattle I thought was something or nothing,seems to be coming from my clutch..When I depress and relese it makes a noise, it doesn't slip/vibrate or shudder....and drives fine my gears are silky smooth to get too....Hmmmm !!
Hi Bob. Thanks for the kind feedback on this thread and sorry to read about your problems with the new A2. I don't see your mileage stated in the original thread you posted? The advice I was given was the DMF will wear out - It's when not if.
For me it was 95k miles. I had no issues with driving or changing gear either. The vibration wasn't noticed immediately as it's my wife who primarily used the car at the time. Even when I pointed out the noise and vibration she had gotten used to it as it's a progressive thing.
My DMF was near to collapse when it was replaced and failure could have caused damage to the gearbox - again this is the advice I received from the VAG tech working on the car.
I'd follow the good advice from Spike and not consider a single mass flywheel conversion for the 90, and if you're in doubt as to the source of the noise you are experiencing - get a competent Tech who knows this engine to assess it or provide a 'second opinion'.

I'm hoping this doesn't put you off and the car is sorted out to your satisfaction. If you bought it at a keen price that's fair to be factored into the repair- if not it's unfortunate you've bought a car with a potentially expensive defect off the bat .
I'm assuming it didn't come from a dealer whereby you'd have some protection or recourse to assist with the fault?

Best of luck and I hope you get everything sorted out to your satisfaction.
 
I was £700 for mine, the only thing I wish I had got done was the slave cylinder done at the same time.
Mind you 147k and trundleing along as normal.

Wheel bearings, Disc guards are here to be done next
 
Hi Bob. Thanks for the kind feedback on this thread and sorry to read about your problems with the new A2. I don't see your mileage stated in the original thread you posted? The advice I was given was the DMF will wear out - It's when not if.
For me it was 95k miles. I had no issues with driving or changing gear either. The vibration wasn't noticed immediately as it's my wife who primarily used the car at the time. Even when I pointed out the noise and vibration she had gotten used to it as it's a progressive thing.
My DMF was near to collapse when it was replaced and failure could have caused damage to the gearbox - again this is the advice I received from the VAG tech working on the car.
I'd follow the good advice from Spike and not consider a single mass flywheel conversion for the 90, and if you're in doubt as to the source of the noise you are experiencing - get a competent Tech who knows this engine to assess it or provide a 'second opinion'.

I'm hoping this doesn't put you off and the car is sorted out to your satisfaction. If you bought it at a keen price that's fair to be factored into the repair- if not it's unfortunate you've bought a car with a potentially expensive defect off the bat .
I'm assuming it didn't come from a dealer whereby you'd have some protection or recourse to assist with the fault?

Best of luck and I hope you get everything sorted out to your satisfaction.
Hiya Murdo, yes mine has done 97k now....I didn't really have much bargaining power as others were there to purchase had I not !....Ive had it 7days now and covered almost 700 miles too,it drives spot on....it is my flywheel,and yes it will get replaced like for like,as I don't like fitting a solid when its suppose to have a dmf,...allsorts of things can and do happen, with age becomes wisdom..and im an old fossil now.!..Ive always like the shape, and indeed I do like the car...im averageing,67mpg on a run too,the engine is spot on, I did the door strap first day I had it,and now the clutch...Luk are pretty good so will probably go with luk....I did buy private yes,hey ho it can be mended !
 
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