Audi A2 6 speed upgrade path

scirocco makes a good point. The BAD engine has several serious weak points: the high internal temps make the plastics age faster; It was only used in a few Golfs, Boras (never the Lupo!) and the A2, which means short engines are extremely hard to come by, and the inlet manifold flap issues and resulting EMLs are going to become a pain in the rear as time goes by. Let's not talk about coil packs.
The 90 has its own problems with VTG turbos, blocked EGRs, and fragile intercooler / Tandem pump seals, never mind injector harnesses.

The most robust is probably the AUA *if* it is looked after well with regular oil changes so the piston rings are kept clear. That also only has one ignition coil. Early AMFs are only Euro 3, the BHCs seem better. But all the diesels suffer with the oil pump chain issue. Watch the E3 become an issue also in the UK with regard to clean air zones.

Horses for courses.

- Bret
 
bretti_kivi said:
scirocco makes a good point. The BAD engine has several serious weak points: the high internal temps make the plastics age faster; It was only used in a few Golfs, Boras (never the Lupo!) and the A2, which means short engines are extremely hard to come by, and the inlet manifold flap issues and resulting EMLs are going to become a pain in the rear as time goes by. Let's not talk about coil packs.
The 90 has its own problems with VTG turbos, blocked EGRs, and fragile intercooler / Tandem pump seals, never mind injector harnesses.

The most robust is probably the AUA *if* it is looked after well with regular oil changes so the piston rings are kept clear. That also only has one ignition coil. Early AMFs are only Euro 3, the BHCs seem better. But all the diesels suffer with the oil pump chain issue. Watch the E3 become an issue also in the UK with regard to clean air zones.

Horses for courses.

- Bret
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Every Fsi owner who has read these pages knows the weaknesses of the A2 fsi.

Sadly every time an innocent question is asked concerning fsi it's........."don't bother" or "your braver than me" and becomes open season to bash the fsi which becomes tiresome. Fsi owners know their weaknesses but love the way they drive so why the constant denigration of the car and their owners as if their mad to own one?

My response to scirocco was irony something missed it looks like.

I'm not interested in a regurgitated history lesson about the fsi, i just want to know what help can be offered about fitting a 6 speed gearbox to one which is what this thread was originally about. Thanks.
 
... and the point remains "why do it?" If the lifetime of the car is limited - which it will be by the EML, then any benefit from the 6 speed is moot, especially at UK speeds. There's minimal fuel to be saved, complexity added and potentially another weak point in the system.

we have multiple conversions to 6 speed on the German forum. Some work well, others have issues - too many for me to personally consider this as a viable option. The 'box change has been done, additional work as per Tony nd there's another option that escapes me right now. 3k rpm at 70mph is high, by todays standards, buy expecting any return over 'because i can' is foolish.

- Bret
 
I'd prefer that newbies understand known issues and problems and understand that - for example - the EML *will* be a problem for drivers as the cars get older in the UK and it's already a "fail" elsewhere in Europe.

I'm surprised the A2 ever existed. Reading the SSPs last night it became obvious just how much work was put in to the prestige project "3L" at the time and how the beancounters were excluded. The depth of thought that went into the improvements is immense; Audi or at least Piech really, really wanted this to work. The lightness that was added to that specific model still makes me wonder - the special work with Lear on the seats is lunatic in the extreme.

I do not view the FSI with rose-tinted glasses, just as I do not see it as a punching bag. I do believe that being honest about the shortcomings for prospective buyers is the only fair way to go.

- Bret
 
bretti_kivi said:
I'd prefer that newbies understand known issues and problems and understand that - for example - the EML *will* be a problem for drivers as the cars get older in the UK and it's already a "fail" elsewhere in Europe.

I do not view the FSI with rose-tinted glasses, just as I do not see it as a punching bag. I do believe that being honest about the shortcomings for prospective buyers is the only fair way to go.

- Bret
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I can understand you wanting to set people straight when they first register as a member and ask which model they should go for, but wouldn't that would be in the introduction section...........;)

I'm not a newbie, nor a prospective fsi buyer, i already own one had it fixed and loving it. Perhaps you missed that bit?;)

Let us just get back to ideas and solutions to an fsi 6 speed gearbox! To me it's an ideal one as there's so much torque low down in the fsi to make this conversion a triumph imo and if i can get an extra 5mpg easily would consider that worthwhile. This would see our fsi approaching 60 mpg comfortably on a long run. I'm personally able to drive the fsi on the flat even with slight incline at just 25mph in 5th, barely touching the loud pedal, no problem at all so can completely agree with what was written below.

I like what Tony wrote hence why I'm so interested. Quoting........

A2 Cars said:
Audi A2 6 speed solution from A2 Cars Milton Keynes.

For many members it has been common knowledge that A2 Cars Milton Keynes has researched and implemented a solution to convert and upgrade the standard 5 speed gearbox fitted to the Audi A2, to a 6 speed gearbox.

Two months ago we carried out the first UK 6 speed conversion to an Audi A2 FSi. This car is in daily use and our opinion is that this conversion is even more successful than that on the A2 TDi’s. Utilising the ample and amazingly low rev torque of its engine, the FSi can be driven at 40 MPH in 6th gear and is quite capable of smooth and rapid acceleration without the need to change to a lower gear.

blue skies
Tony
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looks like i might just break it for bits if its that unreliable, it appears that it won't get the 25yds from where its parked to the main road from what you say.
 
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I'm not going to take that bait. It is, like all other A2s, older and may be unreliable. If you have the time and want to put the effort in, it will be a decent classic. But if you're looking for a cheap way to save fuel, a 6-speed conversion is not it. The probably most trouble-free engine is not the FSI.

The best thread I can find on this is here: https://a2-freun.de/forum/forums/topic/29166-6-gangumbau-der-benziner/?page=2. There are all the details, but without part numbers. The rebuild from CKR is discussed, along with an alternative, along with graphs. The comment that the parts should have cost €1000 is also made.

In case it wasn't clear, I'll reiterate: I might have grown up in the UK and have English as my first language, but I've been out for longer and see no point in beating about the bush. Sarcasm and irony are all well and good but setting expectations is something I find of rather more use.

- Bret
 
I sell parts for 1950 to 59 Aston Martins, I am one of the leading experts one of the most complicated engines ever built but it looks simple to people who don't know, it took me 30 years to really cure those problems, 15 years to cure the gearbox problems.
An A2 may be a tough job to cure, for the electronics there are plenty of people who can totally rebuild those with new bits.
If the engine has high internal temps that destroy the plastic you can do several things, reduce the basic temps including the favourite that car manufacturers dont really understand, high underbonnet temps.
Inlet manifolds, etc that are made of plastic, just cast them in alloy, the death pipe can be made in stainless, the heater hoses can be made in alloy with just small rubber joiners.
Nothing is insurmountable nowadays.
 
?

No - one said we were looking for cheap. If we wanted that we'd have gone for the TDI.

We might just want that something special because it's possible.:)

They spent billions and billions on putting man on the moon because someone said "Hey lets try and put man on the moon at whatever cost" Many would argue it wasn't worth it but some would say "but look what fun it was and the spinoffs that it generated."
 
Bruno said:
I sell parts for 1950 to 59 Aston Martins, I am one of the leading experts one of the most complicated engines ever built but it looks simple to people who don't know, it took me 30 years to really cure those problems, 15 years to cure the gearbox problems.
An A2 may be a tough job to cure, for the electronics there are plenty of people who can totally rebuild those with new bits.
If the engine has high internal temps that destroy the plastic you can do several things, reduce the basic temps including the favourite that car manufacturers dont really understand, high underbonnet temps.
Inlet manifolds, etc that are made of plastic, just cast them in alloy, the death pipe can be made in stainless, the heater hoses can be made in alloy with just small rubber joiners.
Nothing is insurmountable nowadays.
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Absolutely, the rumour mongers help spread what a rubbish car the Triumph Stag was. Good job there remained a good few enlightened people out there, the problems were easily understood and sorted in time and now look what a sought after classic they are now. Astons are beautiful but i think you'll agree the Stag is a lovey car to look at and drive with it's lovely V8 burble. ?
 
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citroen sm said:
I owned a Stag in the mid 80s. Wish I still had it. Nothing quite like driving around with the top down listening to that Stag burble.
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A car i always wanted the Stag,....... and the XJ6 Double Six Coupe. I was young then and now sadly these 2 beauties have sailed of into the sunset with me just looking on. :confused: That's my sad face.

Oh well i have a nice fsi though to be thankful for. :)
 
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