Audi, Now and Then.

PlasticMac

Member
United-Kingdom
While out and about yesterday, I saw several current Audis, of the. Q7 type, big, aggressive looking, to me, making a "look at me" statement, not in a good way.
Made me think how the image of an Audi owner has changed, from the 2000s, when Audis were understated, and not for the "loads'a money" types, as this ad of the time confirms:
Current Audis are no longer content to stay in the background. Harry Enfield's character would certainly find a Q7 to be a natural choice.
Just my opinion of course.
Mac.
 
Didn't Q7 production take over from A2 production at the same site (Neckarsulm?)?

RAB
 
That ad is so spectacularly at odds with Audi's image today it has to join Samsung's ads flaunting headphone jacks and included chargers in the olympus of milk-aged marketing.

Actually, come think of it: if Harry would now seal the deal on a Q7... what dealer would he have walked out of?
 
Totally agree on the way Audi have gone - all models from A1 to Q8 are gaudy, aggressive, unintelligent (in that they are merely re-badged and re-bodied versions of other VW-group models, and therefore are always compromised in their build and packaging) and dreary 'aspirational' cars, the Burberry of the car world, in my opinion.

Grilles are massive (even on their full electric models which need no grille), for aggression and cheapness (it's far cheaper to fill the front of a car with mostly fresh air and plastic than to put metal there), the head and tail lights are now all just exercises in pointless light shows, akin to the brightly lit PC cases of gaming rigs a few years ago and they are mostly bought on the never never by younger wannabes who pretty much bankrupt themselves to get 4 rings on their driveway, or more likely, on the street outside their flat.

Struggling to think of anything that's impressed me since the A2 - I've driven most models and owned a TT and A3 e-tron since and both have been merely 'nice', but didn't impress me enough to keep them.

I really do think that Audi should be made to drop their motto - they certainly don't make any advancement through technology these days.
 
Agree with all that is written above, but it can be applied to all manufacturers now ... this endless obsession with 'power & image of superiority' is making the world a worse place to be part of.

So many 'fat, useless' cars on the market now is a sad reflection of modern life.

We have the A2 (nearly utopia !), a 2014 A3 183hp diesel (that just means less efficient estate car), 2014 Ford S-max (really efficient use of it's dimensions , like the A2) & a 1974 Alfa 105 coupe (style, pace & space for 2 peeps, with a ton of baggage, but not very fuel efficient vs modern engines) & each have their merits, but someone needs to produce 1 car thar combines the attributes of all 4 to make me reduce the size of our fleet !

Anyone got any ideas ??
 
Sign up for a Tesla Model Y. I have a 3 and it's nearly perfect. The Y carries even more, is easier to get in and out of (for those of us over 6 feet tall) and is about as future proof as you'll get. So refreshing not to be sold a service plan when buying the car - the dealers are not interested as there's nothing to do beyond the normal wear and tear, plus a battery coolant change at 8 years! Brilliant cars all around.
 
Sign up for a Tesla Model Y. I have a 3 and it's nearly perfect. The Y carries even more, is easier to get in and out of (for those of us over 6 feet tall) and is about as future proof as you'll get. So refreshing not to be sold a service plan when buying the car - the dealers are not interested as there's nothing to do beyond the normal wear and tear, plus a battery coolant change at 8 years! Brilliant cars all around.
I'm not fussed with Tesla's cars personally. However, their infrastructure / charging system appears to be several steps beyond anything else out there - it's a bit reminiscent of the old adage about Alfa Romeos in the 1970s - you buy an engine and they throw in the car for free. In Tesla's case, the engine is the charging system and sites. I'm perhaps being a little dismissive of the vehicles but from my engineering perspective the infrastructure is the bit that appeals.

Why don't you try petitioning Elon to launch a "Model 2" - in the spirit of the A2 but underpinned by Tesla's charging network? Cities are far too congested as it is - launching more and more 2+ tonne SUVs or eSUVs isn't solving the problem if they are carrying 1 or 2 people for a commute.
 
Great input from @Skipton01 & @Robin_Cox ..... my main problem is finding circa €60000 in the 1st place, & not knowing what it will (not) be worth after a few years ; cars have just become so 'kin pricey, no ?

Obviously, at first glance, a private lease reduces the outlay, but the reality seems to be that you are just paying the depreciation, without owning the car, so what's the point ??

I'm not a car snob, just want something practical, comfortable, space efficient (outer dimensions vs inside space), reasonable efficiency ; fun to drive is no longer important, given the traffic & speed enforcement density everywhere.

Maybe l need to travel by train more often ??
 
Robin, I wasn't fussed about Tesla either - that's why I initially signed up for a Jaguar I-Pace until the dealer told me porkies about order times and I had chance to see the numbers coming back in for fixes under warranty (which were normally involving bricking). Also, the depreciation on the iPace was eye-watering.

It seems that the Tesla model range is about the lowest depreciating range on the market - most retain around 60% after 3 years. As to engineering, I suggest you take a look at Sandy Munro's youtube video selection - he is brutal about bad engineering and this goes down to the nut and bolt level. Over the last 3 years, since Model 3 was revealed, it seems that the way the cars are built has become much, much better. When I collected mine, I was very wary about panel gaps and other issues widely reported. There were none. The cars are so well screwed together and they make my last A3 e-tron look shabby by comparison. The newest model Y's are moving to a structural battery - basically it becomes the chassis and everything else is bolted to it. Tesla have introduced mega-casting - basically the entire quarters of the car are cast in one piece, making for incredibly accurate and massively strong components. These are then bolted to the battery in much the same way as a die cast model car is cast and put together.

I'm no Tesla fan-boy, but credit where it's due: Musk has looked at the car with a fresh eye and the results make so much sense. The cabin is light and airy and very spacious. It's silent and refined and I genuinely look forward to driving it in a way I've not done with any other car in a very long time.

Hoomart, it's funny you mention the train: I've started to take the train when we go into Manchester as a family - even before the Clean Air Zone is introduced (and we wouldn't be charged in the Tesla), and bearing in mind the efficiency of the Model 3, it's cheaper for us to get a train rather than park for a few hours.

Yes, they're quite spendy up front, but factor in 10 years of reduced running costs (esp fuel and servicing) and they are on a par with a new petrol/diesel German equivalent. Longer you keep, the cheaper they are.
 
It was the R8 actually. The first V8 models all used the same welding technologies that were pioneered on the A2.
Possibly, but space frame aside, they only make from 8 to 15 R8s a day, with a maximum of 29!

Mr Munro is a little obsessed with fixings, namely screws and bolts. According to him, everything should clip together, as far as possible, because of the alleged tendency of screws/bolts to loosen. Can you imagine repairing a car that was predominantly clipped together, or worse, putting it back together?

RAB
 
Robin, I wasn't fussed about Tesla either - that's why I initially signed up for a Jaguar I-Pace until the dealer told me porkies about order times and I had chance to see the numbers coming back in for fixes under warranty (which were normally involving bricking). Also, the depreciation on the iPace was eye-watering.

It seems that the Tesla model range is about the lowest depreciating range on the market - most retain around 60% after 3 years. As to engineering, I suggest you take a look at Sandy Munro's youtube video selection - he is brutal about bad engineering and this goes down to the nut and bolt level. Over the last 3 years, since Model 3 was revealed, it seems that the way the cars are built has become much, much better. When I collected mine, I was very wary about panel gaps and other issues widely reported. There were none. The cars are so well screwed together and they make my last A3 e-tron look shabby by comparison. The newest model Y's are moving to a structural battery - basically it becomes the chassis and everything else is bolted to it. Tesla have introduced mega-casting - basically the entire quarters of the car are cast in one piece, making for incredibly accurate and massively strong components. These are then bolted to the battery in much the same way as a die cast model car is cast and put together.

I'm no Tesla fan-boy, but credit where it's due: Musk has looked at the car with a fresh eye and the results make so much sense. The cabin is light and airy and very spacious. It's silent and refined and I genuinely look forward to driving it in a way I've not done with any other car in a very long time.

Hoomart, it's funny you mention the train: I've started to take the train when we go into Manchester as a family - even before the Clean Air Zone is introduced (and we wouldn't be charged in the Tesla), and bearing in mind the efficiency of the Model 3, it's cheaper for us to get a train rather than park for a few hours.

Yes, they're quite spendy up front, but factor in 10 years of reduced running costs (esp fuel and servicing) and they are on a par with a new petrol/diesel German equivalent. Longer you keep, the cheaper they are.
The one problem there is you are suggesting that after warranty the years ahead (suggested 10 + ) there is no catastrophic problem with motor or batteries ..I think it’s still to early to be able to say with any certainty that there still will not be any huge bills .. I obviously hope not for yours and others sake ..But in my humble opinion I would only consider leasing at this stage.. Thereby handing back the risk..P
 
The one problem there is you are suggesting that after warranty the years ahead (suggested 10 + ) there is no catastrophic problem with motor or batteries ..I think it’s still to early to be able to say with any certainty that there still will not be any huge bills .. I obviously hope not for yours and others sake ..But in my humble opinion I would only consider leasing at this stage.. Thereby handing back the risk..P
Electric cars have 80 to 90% fewer moving parts. For Tesla, if the battery drops below 70% capacity within 8 years, Tesla will pay for repairs, which doesn't necessarily mean replacing the complete battery. The drive units are designed to last for a million miles and the batteries should last 300k to 500k miles. Results from Europe suggest that after 500k miles, 20% of the battery capacity will be lost. Fossil cars better?

RAB
 
Electric cars have 80 to 90% fewer moving parts. For Tesla, if the battery drops below 70% capacity within 8 years, Tesla will pay for repairs, which doesn't necessarily mean replacing the complete battery. The drive units are designed to last for a million miles and the batteries should last 300k to 500k miles. Results from Europe suggest that after 500k miles, 20% of the battery capacity will be lost. Fossil cars better?

RAB
I never said Fossil fuels are better rab ...but unless you have a crystal ball I don’t think you know what problems may lie in the future. my concern is that in a few years time when these electric cars are secondhand or 3rd hand down the line the sort of people that can afford to buy a secondhand electric car can’t afford a horrendous bill of £5000 plus if there is a major issue as some of the secondhand electric car buyers are finding out right now .. There is a big part of our population that are not on six-figure salaries..And as in the next few months will show they are struggling now.....
 
My concern is that in a few years time, when these electric cars are 2nd/3rd hand down the line, the sort of people that can afford to buy a secondhand electric car can’t afford a horrendous bill of £5000+ if there is a major issue as some of the secondhand electric car buyers are finding out right now
The greatest thing about electric cars is powertrain-wise there's about 3 things that can ever break, so you'll basically never need maintenance.
The terrifying thing about electric cars is powertrain-wise there's about 3 things that can ever break, so when one does out goes a third of the powertrain.

The main worry is batteries.They're inescapable failure points, and they make up so much of the cost of electric cars - cost that people don't currently pay thanks to heavy subsidies, which only increase the battery cost to car price ratio, that thus starts high and only goes up: battery cost stays dead still and car value lowers year on year. So by the time an electric car is a decade old and prime for a change, its value will have gone below battery cost, and if it won't be the insurance to declare it totaled, it'll be the owner who'll consider it unwise to spend, say, $5k on a $3k car (and then go spend $15k for a new one :rolleyes:) and scrap it.
What this will mean in practice is busted electric cars will be split between crashed ones, good examples with busted batteries, and exceptions. So the salvage market will supply plenty of good "shells", lowering their value, and the crushers will barely get any good used batteries, so their value will stay about still, making the situation even worse.
In short, old cars will all have bad batteries (time is a wear factor too, so it's inevitable), but new ones won't have any reason to cost less and used ones will be so rare they basically won't be a sensible option.

However, there are ways to look at the bright side:
  • At some point, if no one buys used electric cars, the new battery price will have to lower to move some units, so at some point the wasted shells will be curbed somewhat
  • This situation means that new, better/cheaper battery types (which are already in the air right now) will have a great incentive to be adapted for older cars, because of all the shells that are only waiting for a new pack of them
  • Every other spare will become cheap and plentiful because every car totaled over battery cost alone means an entire set of everything else becoming available, and with how frequent this will be the price will be bound to lower immensely
There is to note, I'm junk with predictions - please don't go around thinking a newbie on an A2 forum has brought you the gospel.
 
I never said Fossil fuels are better rab ...but unless you have a crystal ball I don’t think you know what problems may lie in the future. my concern is that in a few years time when these electric cars are secondhand or 3rd hand down the line the sort of people that can afford to buy a secondhand electric car can’t afford a horrendous bill of £5000 plus if there is a major issue as some of the secondhand electric car buyers are finding out right now .. There is a big part of our population that are not on six-figure salaries..And as in the next few months will show they are struggling now.....
That electric cars have far fewer moving parts means that they should be accordingly more reliable. We have a 2013 E-Up! (one of VW's launch cars, so one of their first electric cars) which has performed faultlessly since we bought it. It's always a risk buying any secondhand car but is it greater with electric cars? You can easily check the state of the batteries before you buy. Reliability figures for EVs are made to look worse by their infotainment and technology features, not by their drive trains. You may soon be able to buy a new electric car with reasonable range for about £18k.

Part of the reason that the UK is worse off now is that it seems perfectly legal for politicians to commit fraud without consequence. The forecast loss of GDP in the UK due to Brexit is between 4 and 6% - that's compound, so after 10 years, you're between 33 and 47% worse off! Something will have to change!

RAB
 
I have two concerns.
Where is all the raw material for the batteries going to come from?
Where is all the electricity, to charges said batteries going to come from (not to mention the charge points)
Mac ?
 
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