Bilstein B4s - An update

simes2024

simes2024

A2OC Donor
Here is an update for anybody who recently took an interest in or advised me on a recent suspension upgrade. Firstly some background info:

Having only used the services of Stealth Racing a for remap a few weeks ago I rang Vince to report that my top mounts had gone and that perhaps I should probably consider this an opportunity to upgrade the suspension. He agreed and recommended Koni FSD shocks with Weitec springs. I mulled over his recommendation (and the considerable £800+ cost) but also decided to invite opinion from other A2OC members; almost unanimously I was advised to avoid the Koni shock absorbers.....I would say perhaps only 10% of members offered a positive opinion.
The reasons for this were that those who had Koni's fitted (albeit around 2006-2007) had suffered unacceptable amounts of corrosion. Some people also commented that the new suspension geometry had created a premature tyre wear problem.
The forum discussions went on at length, though it did become clear that Koni would honour their lifetime warranty and replace any 'faulty' units - though this proved little comfort when your car would not be available for a month while waiting for parts to be shipped abroad to be analyzed and verified.

I took this on board and I decided to have the Bilstein B4 shocks fitted instead as they were largely favoured by those who had them fitted, with the added bonus that they were considerably cheaper. I ordered the 4 shock absorbers and front springs from Germany at a cost of around £250; my A2 has a 1.4 tdi engine so the advice was to order the Spidan 49515 springs, them being of oem specification but of better manufacturing quality.
The quote for the fitting at Stealth racing was very much worth the 130 mile round trip from St Albans, so I had it all done at the end of March. While there I mentioned to Vince and his team the large contingent of unhappy Koni FSD owners I had encountered. He was fully aware of the 'problem' with 7/8 year old Koni shocks but assured me the issue had been addressed and still valued Koni for their after-sales service, something other shock absorber manufacturers would not provide as extensively. This, however was all just mildly irrelevant chat, brand new Bilsteins having just been fitted and all.

Having driven around 500 miles since since the upgrade and thought I would now share my conclusions with any A2OC members who happen to be still reading my waffle so far:

1. There is a definite improvement in handling and turning
2. There is some improvement in the stability of the vehicle but I have to admit I was expecting better
3. There is still a considerable amount of steering wheel vibration on bumpier roads, though this could be down to poor wheel balancing or alignment (see 5)
3a. Noticed today that the car drives better on my steel wheels with 195 55 15 winter tyres
4. The front of the car is clearly an inch or so higher than perhaps it should be. This is despite first hand advice from those who had had the same shock and spring combination fitted who experienced no such 'lift'......now, it doesn't bother me a great deal.....and is not noticeable when driving; I do wonder (and hope) whether it will lower to normal height over time.
5. When Vince checked the wheel alignment it was so far out of kilter that he told me it was almost impossible to put it right. The camber is almost double the tolerance allowed. The good news being though that the poor reading is matched on both sides....so at least it's consistently bad. I won't pretend to possess a comprehensive grasp of the science of wheel alignment, but Vince said in some cases (unfortunately not mine) the sub-frame could be rotated to compensate. I think this would perhaps only apply if, for instance, one wheel was toeing in and the other toeing out......

I welcome comments from A2OC members who have advice or may have experienced something similar.
Picture of the side of the car showing raised front is attached along with a scan of the wheel alignment test.
Cheers
-Simon



IMAG0499.jpgscan0001.jpg
 
Thanks for the interesting update.
I'm just about to change the fronts on mine and will go down the B4 and Spidan route.
Do you know whether the old springs which came off were the same length as the new ones. I know they share the same specification but wonder whether the old ones had lost some height over time?

Cheers
Jonathan
 
I think that I may need to replace my rear O/S shock so am considering this same job. I'm still mulling Monroe's Reflex and the B4s but am more than happy keeping the OEM springs. I'm guessing that it's the springs that are causing havoc with ride height?
You paid £250 for springs and shocks (?), I presume that it was cheaper importing from Germany? Certainly cheaper than I've priced up.
 
My b4s and stock SE springs raise the front slightly. About 2cm or so I'd say. Compared to the old shocks the B4s were a lot sturdier. It is noticeable if you are looking, but not that bad.

Chris
 
Although I have had my SPIDAN 49546 rear springs for some months I have only recently ordered the SPIDAN 49515 fronts, the Bilstein B4's and bump stops, bolts etc to overhaul the whole A2 suspension.

Without a garage and living on the side of a Welsh mountain with MOT looming, I rebuilt the rear suspension between showers over Easter as I had found I had a broken rear spring. It was a 10mm piece off the offside and a definite MOT failure. (Surprised to find that the original rear shockers were Monroe? would these have been original in 2001? Springs were 2 x orange, 1 x green, 1 x white. Although I had new rear spring top mounts, bump stops and dust covers all originals were in perfect condition and only needing new bolts.
Very pleased with the height which was as before, two fingers between tyre and rear arch.

After a handbrake adjustment to the rear drums and all brake lines checked to be ok, booked my MOT and a couple of days before it expired.

'Failed due to a broken front spring! Owned VW cars since 1980 and never had a broken front spring and with little time to fix,
booked it in for the MOT garage to do the front Spidan 49515, top mounts, Bilstein B4's etc to complete the MOT for a PASS>

BUT as simes2024 above has found, my car sits too high at the front! It has Bilstein top mounts which are similar to the originals so why this raised height is the case I do not know? I didn't compare the Spidan 49515 against the AUDI springs 3 x blue, 2 x red that I removed so is the SPIDAN 49515 the correct front spring! Is there an alternative SPIDAN spring that will improve the present stance?

I too am hoping that the front will settle but cannot see that it will do so by the required amount? Comments please.

PS. I have original VW Passat Sport TDi springs on my 2002 Passat that I overhauled last year at 150k, adding replacement spec Bilsteins which had been superb and one of the reasons that I opted for them on the A2. The Passat springs etc were waxoyled in 2004 when I bought the car which I believe has prevented rusting and breakage.
 
From previous discussions, the increase in static ride height is due to the shocks being gas pressurised (it stops the damping oil aerating) and this adds just enough to the spring force to lift the front end.
I have Koni FSD's and standard Audi springs and while others have noticed a similar lifting effect, the ride height on my car barely changed (not sure why)

Cheers Spike
 
vkx245l said:
Do you know whether the old springs which came off were the same length as the new ones. I know they share the same specification but wonder whether the old ones had lost some height over time?
Click to expand...

Having only owned an A2 for just over a year, it's hard for me to answer this accurately. As Stealth did the work for me I had no opportunity to compare the strut assemblies side by side - though I did keep the old ones so may be able to at some point.
Interestingly I have a photo I took last May, which I'll post to the thread (with original suspension setup) where the sit height at front still looks somewhat more than the rear. Bear in mind this could be 10 year old shocks and springs. Also the driveway may dip at the front, so perhaps it's a slight optical illusion.
 
tagscuderia said:
I'm guessing that it's the springs that are causing havoc with ride height?
You paid £250 for springs and shocks (?), I presume that it was cheaper importing from Germany? Certainly cheaper than I've priced up.
Click to expand...

Well I'm guessing that, though no one else reported ride height issues with this combination. Had they I would have researched other options. The £250 was for 4 shocks, front springs only (rears were less than a year old, and as they were an MOT repair I assume Audi OE) and dust covers and bump stops all round. The new top mounts cost me £50 more but bought them locally. prinz-autoteile.de is where I ordered them, as have many other members. Took about a week to arrive
 
The front-end lifting effect is well-known with the Koni FSDs and the "cure" is/was to fit springs that were 10mm shorter than normal at the front. A similar thing must be happening with the B4s.
 
spike said:
From previous discussions, the increase in static ride height is due to the shocks being gas pressurised (it stops the damping oil aerating) and this adds just enough to the spring force to lift the front end.
I have Koni FSD's and standard Audi springs and while others have noticed a similar lifting effect, the ride height on my car barely changed (not sure why)
Click to expand...

Interesting.....so you're saying this lift is apparent only while stationary? Would that not count for the rear shocks as well then if they are B4s?
I would like to read some of these previous discussions if you could kindly point me towards.

I'm aware that for club members of many years this may be a well-trodden subject that requires no further discussion...........it appears I require some further indulgence. Thanks in advance
 
I researched at length. 49515 are correct for tdi and sport models with sunroof. Even when I was ordering on parts websites, when adding 1.4 tdi as the model, only the 49515s became available....other A2 compatible springs were removed from the list
 
Front-end lifting is well-trodden with the FSDs but that's only because FSDs were pretty much the only shock upgrade available/widely trialled until recently.
The cure there was to use, for example, Weitec -30s at the front if you had a Sport, or to use Audi OEM Sport at the front if you had an SE - both of these would counter the approx 10mm lift from the FSDs. However they both come at a cost to ride quality improvement as they're pretty stiff springs. I think the more recent trials with Spidans was entirely about optimising the ride quality gains from the better shocks.

I don't think many people have experimented with Bilstein B4s hence not many prior examples of front-end lift with them.

That Spidan part number doesn't make sense to me though either way and could be the issue - how can the same front spring be used for both SE and Sport, when the Sport runs 10mm lower than the SE?

I think Timmus is the expert here with regards to Spidan spring catalogue?

simes2024 said:
Interesting.....so you're saying this lift is apparent only while stationary? Would that not count for the rear shocks as well then if they are B4s?
I would like to read some of these previous discussions if you could kindly point me towards.

I'm aware that for club members of many years this may be a well-trodden subject that requires no further discussion...........it appears I require some further indulgence. Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
 
I guess you have read the suspension thread - http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthrea...rs-coilovers-and-airride&highlight=front+lift I'm sure lift with gas dampers is covered there.

This is one of the other posts I found - http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?19806-KONI-FSD-S-or-BILSTEIN-B6-S&p=150686#post150686

Not sure about B 4's adding lift but you can usually tell by the amount of 'spring back' effect when priming any damper before installation.

Static ride height is just the normal terminology used to describe the stance of the car. Not sure how you would tell the effects on ride height when the car is in motion.

Cheers Spike
 
meriafel said:
BUT as simes2024 above has found, my car sits too high at the front! It has Bilstein top mounts which are similar to the originals so why this raised height is the case I do not know? I didn't compare the Spidan 49515 against the AUDI springs 3 x blue, 2 x red that I removed so is the SPIDAN 49515 the correct front spring! Is there an alternative SPIDAN spring that will improve the present stance?

I too am hoping that the front will settle but cannot see that it will do so by the required amount? Comments please.
Click to expand...

Well if we can't live with it as it is then we have limited options.......perhaps go to the expense of changing it all again (but there's still guarantee we'll be happy with it).
One cheap option, though it probably would be reckless and on the whole not recommended, is to buy a set of spring clamps
 
Hi you can get springs reset I believe a company name was mentioned in the long suspension thread. I will try and find it or at least Google it.
I have FSD'S and weitec springs on my FSI 70K Miles old now, looking rusty but handles great. My storm is on sport suspension from the factory and will be replaced soon with Monroe reflex and H&R springs as recently fitted to my wife's tdi sport (vonnie) by A2cars Ltd. Point to note is both modified cars I have fitted spacers under the rear springs to ballance the stance.
Cheers Mike ---don't fit spring clamps please.
 
a2sumo said:
Point to note is both modified cars I have fitted spacers under the rear springs to ballance the stance.
Cheers Mike ---don't fit spring clamps please.
Click to expand...

Won't be using clamps...it was more tongue-in-cheek. After I'm not a 17 year old Citroen Saxo owner!

Are you suggesting that raising the rear springs a little will compensate by lowering the front a bit?
 
I'm not unhappy with the set up that I have as I have yet to do any mileage in it to form an opinion apart from which I have the original part worn tyres that the car came with a year ago. Two MOHAWK on the front with a KUMHO ECSTA HM and a MARSHALL following up behind as best they can! My Priority was keeping out the rainwater while I rebuilt and repaired items like the glove-box which is now rock solid, closes as it should with a working interior light. Car now dry with all trim/carpets refitted and it is
quieter than I imagined it would be.

It is higher at the front than I would have expected but photos viewed this evening I took last year show it was high at the front then but less so partly because my old rear spring seats were virtually non existent.
I too have had my old shockers and springs returned so could sometime in the future could make a comparison. I do have the OSS sunroof so the suspension set-up should be correct for the 1.4 SE Tdi. My comments/findings are similar to symes2024 and maybe in a years time I will be more than happy with my set-up. Tyres and pressures can have implications for ride and handling so there is plenty to experiment with when new tyres are fitted.
 
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