Camshaft Seal Leak 1.4 16v

Rosstbeef

Rosstbeef

Member
Check out how much this leaks after running the engine just for a few seconds :eek:

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I though it was the crankshaft seal initially until removing the engine mount to be sure.
I'm attempting to do this myself. Its the first time I've pulled seals before and reinserted them but I should be ok with it. Just thought I'd share this as I havent seen anything else on here about leaking camshaft seals.
I've bought a kit like this one to do the seals:
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And I already have a timing belt tool kit that covers a fair few VAG engines. This is the 2nd time I've used it. First time on my Mk3 Golf TDI
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You may notice the tensioner in the pic isn't at the correct tension (pointers not lined up). Maybe this is the cause? Now I've removed the belt I can see that it has been rubbing against the cam cover housing from being a bit loose perhaps. The car has covered 80k miles and had its belts changed at about 70k, just under four years ago. Another possible cause could maybe too much oil in the engine at some point causing too much pressure? The dipstick had snapped short on this car. I've now bought a new one and had to remove the broken section from the engine as the new one wouldn't go in. Possibly it has been filled up to the shortened dipstick in the past, but I don't know. There was a good crust of oily sludge on the engine tray so maybe it has been leaking for a while.

I've bought new camshaft sprocket bolts from Audi. The bolt heads are different but I'm assured they are the correct ones. They say they've superseded the originals. I know the parts guy there well so I'm pretty confident all should be ok with them.

I've cleaned up the oily mess off this side of the engine now and cleaned all the sprockets. I'm planning to change the sealant on the cam cover housing at the same time and have new bolts for this.

I'll get more pics up here when I actually do the seals but need some dry weather first.
 
Ours has done 122k, I changed the cam belts two weeks ago and there were no visible leaks, so I would say what you have is unusual at that mileage. Good luck with it.
 
What is the kit please that you have bought to pull and replace the seals? I have two of these to do and so need a decent tool kit.
 
Er, ahem, yes! its about time I updated this thread!

Don't buy a cheap kit from ebay as I did. I went for the cheapest at £25, very similar to the sealey kit but the puller's legs are just so weedy the hooks bent straight and the seal didn't budge in the slightest. The sealey kit looks to have some sturdier legs. The seals are in there pretty tight so potentially it could still struggle?

Here's what happened for me...

The kit I pictured above looks like it has a puller with stronger legs, it's not the actual one I bought. This is what happened to my puller:
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I ended up very carefully drilling holes in the seals and founds some long but thin screws to screw into the holes to use with the remains of the puller. I saw a vid on YouTube of someone doing something similar. It worked!

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I cleaned everything up well making sure there was no swarf from the seal drilling. And I made sure there was no oil on the housing where the outer edge will meet. The rest of the kit worked a treat for inserting the new seals. I lightly oiled the camshafts and the inner lip of the seals.
First I used a thinner silver spacer in the kit to get the seal in this far:
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then I changed it over to a slightly thicker spacer to drive it fully home:
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I think the job would have been a bit trickier if the housing was still on the car but only due to the crappy kit I bought and having to drill holes in the seal.
I had oil weeping past the camshaft housing seal and entering the spark plug recesses so I had to remove it anyway. I used Elring Dirko sealant from GSF. They recommended it for this particular application and it withstands 300C.

So then I went and rebuilt everything with new timing belt kit and water pump (lucky I didn't scrimp here as the old genuine pump with 2008 date stamp showed signs of leaking).

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The new 23mm camshaft bolts were a bit of a pain as the camshaft sprocket holding tool gets slightly in the way of a 23mm socket.

I bought a new crankshaft pulley bolt too. A 21mm headed one with a recessed head has superseded the original 19mm. The new one has a massively different torque setting. Old one is 90Nm plus a 90 degree turn. The new one is 150Nm and a 180 degree turn!!!
I managed to break my 21mm socket in the process of getting it that tight. I also needed to all the extension bars so I could find to clear the wheel arch/side of the car. Needed so I could get a nice long torque wrench on the bolt for leverage and do the 180 degree turn.
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It's all back together and running leak free now. I've changed the oil and filter and all seems well. I've still got a few other jobs to do on the car before I start using it. An Inner CV boot is split and the seals on the EGR valve are causing another slight oil leak. The weather has stopped play again now though....

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Oh and the camshaft seals I went for were Elring from GSF. I didn't replace the crankshaft seal. I used the ebay Elsawin manual for the wrench settings and procedures.
 
Nice work, I’ve never seen an oil leak that bad.

Does the puller have fine legs that fit inside the seal lip? If so, apart from the risk of failure as you experienced, I don’t think I have the space to use such a long puller.

Looks like I’m back to plan A. Remove the cam.
 
Got to ask this one. After the initial torque I’m struggling to get a full extra 1/4 where specified. How did you hold the cam to apply that whopping torque?
 
philward said:
Got to ask this one. After the initial torque I’m struggling to get a full extra 1/4 where specified. How did you hold the cam to apply that whopping torque?
Click to expand...

I've got it, it's the crank not the cams that require 150 Nm plus 180.
 
Yes the pullers legs hook in between the cam and seal. Here's a link to a vid of the sealey tool...
Video

You should have room to do it in situ, worth a go before removing the cam housing. I guess it depends on how long you can have the car off the road for, i.e. having to then order and wait for new housing bolts to arrive if you were to need to remove it.

You may want to do the housing seal anyway if you think it may need doing or want peace of mind.
Let us know how you get on. Hope it goes well for you.
 
Thanks, will report how I get on. Could be a little while though as I have two cars to repair before I get to the leaky one.
 
Just a note on torque settings when you are using extensions etc. The reading on your wrench may not be totally accurate as there could be play from the wrench to the extension and then extension end to the socket. This gets exaggerated if you are using multiple extensions.
 
Not sure about that Neil.

If nothing is moving then the torque has to be the same at both ends no matter the number of joints?
 
philward said:
Not sure about that Neil.

If nothing is moving then the torque has to be the same at both ends no matter the number of joints?
Click to expand...
The problem is that it is very rare not to have any "play" at the joints. Some joints are actually shaped so that you do get play and a bit of movement to help with access in tight areas. Also, worn extensions that have been abused can be mis-shaped and introduce play.
 
Great work there and it's very welcome to see someone post this sort of thing! Have you got a full on picture of the underside of the camshaft carrier housing showing it all?
 
Thanks. No I don't have a pic but this videoshows the same type of 1.4 16v engine in a Golf.
One thing i notice they did wrong was not allow the oil to drain out of the housing when it's off. When it comes to refitting if you can see the oil oozing out at the front edge of the housing between the housing and head. That might cause a leak and all that time spent cleaning it all up would be wasted! Think they put sealant on places where it's not required too. You can easily see where the housing is usually in contact with the head and where you need to stick sealant. Go easy on the sealant, not much is needed, just a very thin bead, especially around the small oilways.
 
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Thanks, that was excellent viewing! I've seen these 2 in action before it's a shame it's not in English although it's pretty self explanatory. I notice the 10-40 oil they were using instead of the usual stuff recommended on our A2s. I wonder what tappets and rollers they were using? I've already got INA hydraulic tappets so i might ask VW for a price on the rollers? Very often cheaper than going to Audi. Cheers Mark.
 
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