Crumbly Biscuit

P

Pilchard

Member
I recently had an unsuccessful attempt at re-glueing an approx 1 square foot section of the headline in the rear OS corner of my non OSS A2. I of course followed all the instructions on the can of Trim-Fix High Temp and, although I wasn’t expecting to achieve an invisible mend, it looked kind-of OK-ish when I left it. But by the next morning, during a period of cool weather, the lining had sagged again… just as if I’d done nothing.

I may be entirely wrong, but it appears to me that the problem causing poor adhesion is because the yellow-coloured foam “biscuit” has a very fine layer of orange-coloured “crumb” on it that if even very gently rubbed with a finger comes away. It seems that some of this crumb is also adhering to the stretch headliner, but whether said crumb had stuck to the fabric before or after my attempts at repair… I couldn’t say.

So… this car is my first A2, but not my last because I’m actively searching for a better one. It’s a little bit of a dog really… compared to some stunning examples you guys have, but it was cheap… and it has won me over as a confirmed A2 fan. I don’t want to re-line the head on this car, I just want a quick fix that doesn’t shout at me every time I look at it.


I’m wondering that if I gently removed what of this fine crumb had stuck to the fabric… whatever I could get too… and then applied some kind of stabiliser (?) to the biscuit… I might be able to succeed with the glueing process I’d attempted in the first place.

Any ideas?
 
As you have identified, once the fabric has separated from its backing, there is no hope sadly but to opt for new fabric.

If function over finish is your end point, you could opt for something like these, though that will permanently damage the biscuit of course.

I'll be flattered if that is mine you are refering to.

Pilchard said:
Thanks Robin but I did look at some of his posting re head-linings, and especially his replies to the forum member with that orgasmically beautiful Cobalt Blue model. These guys are way beyond my league and might just laugh at me.
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Darren C said:
I'll be flattered if that is mine you are refering to.
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I believe it is yours Darren.

In my experience trim fix adhesive simply does not work whatever preparation you do. The professionals use a paint on contact adhesive and it’s very effective. I think it’s one of them jobs that is always going to cost a fortune due to the labour time. DIY is hard to impossible in my experience, and I can put my hands to most things.

Ian
 
Kleynie said:
I believe it is yours Darren.

In my experience trim fix adhesive simply does not work whatever preparation you do. The professionals use a paint on contact adhesive and it’s very effective. I think it’s one of them jobs that is always going to cost a fortune due to the labour time. DIY is hard to impossible in my experience, and I can put my hands to most things.

Ian
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Ian - Do you not to the refit of the headlining material yourself then? I thought you did that on the side?
 
CrispyEdd said:
Ian - Do you not to the refit of the headlining material yourself then? I thought you did that on the side?
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No Sir, it’s subbed out to the same people who trimmed both our A2’s. At least we then can refit the roof lining with confidence!

Ian
 
Darren C said:
As you have identified, once the fabric has separated from its backing, there is no hope sadly but to opt for new fabric.

If function over finish is your end point, you could opt for something like these, though that will permanently damage the biscuit of course.

I'll be flattered if that is mine you are refering to.
Click to expand...
Ah, so the fine orange crumb belongs to the fabric not the biscuit? That makes sense.
I clicked your link and almost threw up in disgust. I don't think Drag Queen Boudoir style would sit quite right in an A2... even a less than perfect one like mine.
As a one-time antique furniture restorer and cabinet maker I tend not to give up easy and know that there can often be some fairly unorthodox solutions. Even pretty off the wall ones. You just have to keep digging, but cautiously in case the cure ends up worse than fault.
And... of course it IS your car I'm drooling over. It's a stunner and it might have changed my mind about Silver being the only proper colour for an A2. Maybe you were very careful not to show them but I can't even remember seeing any worn-through-to-white switches.
 
I’m not a fan of the items I linked to either, hence opting for the more expensive option. A curve ball solution, for which you’ll have to forgive me for. Thank you for your kind comments, sincerely appreciated. 🙏🏻

P.S. There aren’t any, but with soft touch it can be a case of when, not if.

Pilchard said:
Maybe you were very careful not to show them but I can't even remember seeing any worn-through-to-white switches.
Click to expand...
 
Hello all,

It’s posts like this along with the souring temperatures of late that sees the real need for someone to step up to offer headlining reupholstery as a service. There will of course be plenty of A2s out there suffering with a failed headlining.

Across our fine membership is quite a few who have reupholstered their own head lining and know how to do it with great results. Perfecting the process can be gained through experience of just a couple of headlinings. Whilst I know that professional outfits use a mixed adhesive in a paint spray gun, there is nothing wrong with Trim Fix High Temperature Spray Adhesive for the DIYer. I’ve observed perfect adherence properties and still occassionaly see a XJS TWR that I used to own and reupholstered the headlining in it. Still not sagging and that was completed over a decade ago now. The headlining in Project OEM is also still holding perfectly after some 2 years since being reupholstered.

I’ve mentioned in the past that I was going to start such a service myself but feel that it would take so much of my time that I have decided not to start. A considering factor is of course the financial side of any service offered as it would be an additional income. Providing an invoice/receipt along with submitting all funds received on my self assessment return on any income at the rate I was intending would equal to nothing to show and as such detrimental to my quality family time.

Someone who may have time on their hands could quickly fill this void in the guise of Member Services. If no one jumps in to offer assistance then I’ll reconsider my thoughts as I know how annoying a sagging headlining can be.

Back to the OP, @Pilchard: can you confirm the colour of your headlining please. Is it Twist (beige) or Platinum (light grey). The issue you’re having is that you’re trying to adhere the thin absorbent fabric to a headlining biscuit that is covered in the original foam backing, there is no quick repair solution. Even if a repair was to hold, the rest of the headlining will eventually fail. The best course of action is to totally remove the original fabric and start over with new materials.

Kind regards,

Tom
 
2work said:
Hello all,

It’s posts like this along with the souring temperatures of late that sees the real need for someone to step up to offer headlining reupholstery as a service. There will of course be plenty of A2s out there suffering with a failed headlining.

Across our fine membership is quite a few who have reupholstered their own head lining and know how to do it with great results. Perfecting the process can be gained through experience of just a couple of headlinings. Whilst I know that professional outfits use a mixed adhesive in a paint spray gun, there is nothing wrong with Trim Fix High Temperature Spray Adhesive for the DIYer. I’ve observed perfect adherence properties and still occassionaly see a XJS TWR that I used to own and reupholstered the headlining in it. Still not sagging and that was completed over a decade ago now. The headlining in Project OEM is also still holding perfectly after some 2 years since being reupholstered.

I’ve mentioned in the past that I was going to start such a service myself but feel that it would take so much of my time that I have decided not to start. A considering factor is of course the financial side of any service offered as it would be an additional income. Providing an invoice/receipt along with submitting all funds received on my self assessment return on any income at the rate I was intending would equal to nothing to show and as such detrimental to my quality family time.

Someone who may have time on their hands could quickly fill this void in the guise of Member Services. If no one jumps in to offer assistance then I’ll reconsider my thoughts as I know how annoying a sagging headlining can be.

Back to the OP, @Pilchard: can you confirm the colour of your headlining please. Is it Twist (beige) or Platinum (light grey). The issue you’re having is that you’re trying to adhere the thin absorbent fabric to a headlining biscuit that is covered in the original foam backing, there is no quick repair solution. Even if a repair was to hold, the rest of the headlining will eventually fail. The best course of action is to totally remove the original fabric and start over with new materials.

Kind regards,

Tom
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Hi Tom, I'm starting to realize the truth of your last paragraph. What I have been incorrectly referring to as crumb... assuming it to be products of degredation of the biscuit... is in fact the remains of the thin foam backing that belongs to the stretch headlining fabric... which is the light grey version you mentioned. As I've mentioned, I feel my car is not the best example on which to base any kind of restoration project and that isn't my thing anyway. So I need to think up a bodge of some kind that'll not depress me too much every time I look at it. At the moment I'm thinking I might try cleaning the remains of the foam backing off the fabric and biscuit as best I can and trying some double sided tape. So long as whatever I do holds and hides the biscuit then I can pretend I cant see any more minor bulging and sagging.
There's a guy in Carlisle, Mario's, I made contact with and sent him photos. He also said a re-line is the only way and quoted £300, which if my car was a worthwhile example I'd go for it.
 
These are a cheap fix option that I've seen used and recommended on another marque group.

NA 100 Pcs Clear Heads Twist Pins Bedskirt Pins for Upholstery Slipcovers and Bedskirts Headliner Repair Loose Drapery Craft : Amazon.co.uk: Home & Kitchen

NA 100 Pcs Clear Heads Twist Pins Bedskirt Pins for Upholstery Slipcovers and Bedskirts Headliner Repair Loose Drapery Craft: NA 100 Pcs Clear Heads Twist Pins Bedskirt Pins for Upholstery Slipcovers and Bedskirts Headliner Repair Loose Drapery Craft: Amazon.co.uk: Home & Kitchen
www.amazon.co.uk
 
Pilchard said:
Hi Tom, I'm starting to realize the truth of your last paragraph. What I have been incorrectly referring to as crumb... assuming it to be products of degredation of the biscuit... is in fact the remains of the thin foam backing that belongs to the stretch headlining fabric... which is the light grey version you mentioned. As I've mentioned, I feel my car is not the best example on which to base any kind of restoration project and that isn't my thing anyway. So I need to think up a bodge of some kind that'll not depress me too much every time I look at it. At the moment I'm thinking I might try cleaning the remains of the foam backing off the fabric and biscuit as best I can and trying some double sided tape. So long as whatever I do holds and hides the biscuit then I can pretend I cant see any more minor bulging and sagging.
There's a guy in Carlisle, Mario's, I made contact with and sent him photos. He also said a re-line is the only way and quoted £300, which if my car was a worthwhile example I'd go for it.
Click to expand...
Hello again,

I must say that £300 from a professional isn’t too bad a price to be honest. You’ll get a perfect finish and of course some kind of warranty. They of course can hold larger rolls of fabric than any DIY outfit along with the adhesive for the paint spray guns.

When I was looking at offering this as a service my pricing was going to around £200 which includes £80 for the headlining fabric plus 2 tins of Trim Fix High Temperature spray adhesive, so around £100 in materials. Leaving £100 to show for roughly 6-7 hours work, broken down as follows:

1 hour removal of headlining
2-3 hours cleaning and preparation of the biscuit
1-2 hours of reupholstering the biscuit and pillars
1 hour refitting the freshly reupholstered headlining. Of course time could be saved over time if cleaning more than 1 biscuit at a time etcetera.

Quite a lot of work which I was totally up for but then had to factor in the 40% tax I’d have to offset which would leave roughly £60 for the ‘up to’ 7 hours of labour which is in the garage away from my family.

After discussing this with the family, I was asked what would be the benefit to the 2work Towers household some 7 hours labour away from them, to which I replied, it would just about cover 4 pizzas whilst we watch a film on the sofa on a Friday evening. At that point I got that look across the table which most people will recognise as ‘Why’

It’s something that I may look at in the future should anything change, but right now I just couldn’t give me time away at under £10 an hour.

Anyone reading this who needs their headlining reupholstered really should look into doing it themselves as your time is essentially free and you can have it completed for around £100.

I’ve got to do a headlining on one of the fleet so might even produce a pictorial how to guide as I conduct the process with some pointers along the way. This should be good enough for most competent DIYers out there. It’ll be a few weeks and will be a non-OSS variety which isn’t too dissimilar to that of the OSS variety.

I’ll of course start a new thread for this guide as I’ve swerved this one for long enough now. Apologies to the OP @Pilchard for clogging up your thread.

Kind regards,

Tom
 
Is it possible to drive the car with the headlining and biscuit completey out? safety wise etc with wires hanging around? As I could be tempted when mine gets worse to take it out one wekeend, do the work over several weekend and pop it back in.
 
Jeff Sutcliffe said:
These are a cheap fix option that I've seen used and recommended on another marque group.

NA 100 Pcs Clear Heads Twist Pins Bedskirt Pins for Upholstery Slipcovers and Bedskirts Headliner Repair Loose Drapery Craft : Amazon.co.uk: Home & Kitchen

NA 100 Pcs Clear Heads Twist Pins Bedskirt Pins for Upholstery Slipcovers and Bedskirts Headliner Repair Loose Drapery Craft: NA 100 Pcs Clear Heads Twist Pins Bedskirt Pins for Upholstery Slipcovers and Bedskirts Headliner Repair Loose Drapery Craft: Amazon.co.uk: Home & Kitchen
www.amazon.co.uk
Click to expand...
This will certainly work at least as a temporary solution. Yes the lining needs to be replaced for a permanent solution but at least this is not too noticeable and will hopefully prevent much more peeling off in the interim. Would also prefer to run the car like this rather than remove the liner and drive around with exposed wiring and any issues caused by not having the interior lights and interior sensor connected.

These pins may even help support the liner in place as a glue dries. Remember to coat both sides with the glue.
 
CrispyEdd said:
Is it possible to drive the car with the headlining and biscuit completey out? safety wise etc with wires hanging around? As I could be tempted when mine gets worse to take it out one wekeend, do the work over several weekend and pop it back in.
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Absolutely fine, providing you don't carry inquisitive 10yr olds that may try and pull on the wires!!!! I would imagine a slightly tinny sound when driving though, or even noisuer if it is raining!
 
CrispyEdd said:
Is it possible to drive the car with the headlining and biscuit completey out? safety wise etc with wires hanging around? As I could be tempted when mine gets worse to take it out one wekeend, do the work over several weekend and pop it back in.
Click to expand...
Proghound said:
@Darren C didn't yours have the headlining completely out for a while ... did that include any mileage?
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Yes, perfectly drivable and that is with OSS. Just be sensible with tying up the sun visor vanity light cables and everything is absolutely fine.
 
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