Difficulty selecting 1st and 5th Gear

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Hi,
I have a 2002 1.4SE. It's on about 145000 miles and I've had it for seven years.
Recently I have had a little trouble selecting 1st or 5th gear. it is an intermittent problem. A lot of the time it is ok.
When it occurs its like there is a notch you need to push past.
I've read everything I can on the subject and have considered trying to adjust the cables as detailed on some posts.
I have not done much under the bonnet yet and I'm not sure if I am up to the task!
If it was the cables would it be intermittent? If it was the clutch I guess that would be pretty expensive.
As I say it happens on first and fifth gear. Can anyone help me diagnose this one? I have taken some video of the cables at the gear box end under the bonnet whilst the gears are changed if that helps.
 
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your response
I did read your post but thought it didn't apply because i was having trouble with fifth as well.
But I will try revving a bit next time I have trouble with first and see if that helps. Would that be a sign that the clutch is failing?
I will also try the crud check. That looks quite easy.
Thanks again
 
Next time you start the car start it in neutral with the clutch NOT depressed. Then depress it and immediately engage 1st. No need to Rev it. The next time you find it difficult to engage first, slip it into neutral take your foot off the clutch and then (without a pause) engage first.
That should make a difference.

The other thing to check is to switch off the engine, depress the clutch and try to engage the gears and see if they are easy to engage. If they are, then it is not the gear adjustment that is needed.

As a say, you might have two separate issues one affecting first gear selection (which may be due to the gearbox not spinning when you try to engage first.
5th may be due to the crud.
A clutch when it starts to fail will slip and that does not affect gear selection.
if the hydraulics of the clutch are starting to fail the pedal may feel like it is easy to depress until the last couple of inches and bites almost as soon as you lift off the pedal slightly.

so try the above regarding first gear and check out the adjustment (which will not be needed if you can engage the gears easily. with the engine not running.

Let us know how that goes.
Steve B
 
Next time you start the car start it in neutral with the clutch NOT depressed. Then depress it and immediately engage 1st. No need to Rev it. The next time you find it difficult to engage first, slip it into neutral take your foot off the clutch and then (without a pause) engage first.
That should make a difference.

The other thing to check is to switch off the engine, depress the clutch and try to engage the gears and see if they are easy to engage. If they are, then it is not the gear adjustment that is needed.

As a say, you might have two separate issues one affecting first gear selection (which may be due to the gearbox not spinning when you try to engage first.
5th may be due to the crud.
A clutch when it starts to fail will slip and that does not affect gear selection.
if the hydraulics of the clutch are starting to fail the pedal may feel like it is easy to depress until the last couple of inches and bites almost as soon as you lift off the pedal slightly.

so try the above regarding first gear and check out the adjustment (which will not be needed if you can engage the gears easily. with the engine not running.

Let us know how that goes.
Steve B
For the first time Steve, I have to disagree with you on something ( :eek: ?): two modes of clutch release failure can be down to the clutch itself rather than slave.

i) On cars where used, the lever that takes the action of the slave cylinder to the clutch cover plate can wear, crack or bend over time. This can mean gears get harder and harder to select, particularly first and reverse.
ii) Most clutch cover plate (which clamps the friction plate to the flywheel at all times other than when the clutch pedal is depressed) have a large number of fingers that act as pivots between the central clutch release bearing and the 'clamping ring' of the cover plate. These can wear or occasionally crack. Also if the release bearing has started to fail, occasionally the fingers can be overheated and softened, leading to them bending.

Symptoms: a rather imprecise feel to the clutch, a bit woolly perhaps, harder pedal effort than a new, healthy clutch. Very low clutch biting point (i.e. feeling as though you have to ram the clutch right into the carpet to get a gear).

Clutch release test: engine running, try to select reverse. If it drops straight in, clutch probably O.K.

If a struggle, pop into another gear and try reverse again (clutch still down), it'll probably now go in. Keeping clutch down, come out of reverse, count to five (or whatever), and go back into reverse once more. To be clear, keep the clutch down all the way through this test and engine running. If it drops straight in second time, clutch fine. If it feels as though it's being blocked, the clutch is probably dragging for whatever reason (above plus possible master / slave / fluid issues).

As the issue is also with fifth, I would doubt the clutch is the issue, esp as intermittent. Fifth is usually pretty relaxed about having a clutch.

OP: yes, if you could pop the video up, it might give a clue. Whereabouts in the country are you?

You don't mention if you've got a 1.4 petrol or diesel. The petrol gearbox is usually particularly sweet: it's the nicest gearbox in the range. If a TDi however, I have found my current one does block fifth from time to time. Doesn't matter if I double-declutch, and much of the time it's fine. I just drive around it as there's nothing more that I can do: new gearbox oil, all linkages / shifter area etc dismantled and lubed. Gear oil came out perfectly clean.

I would suggest adjusting the linkage, but as you've said, it's intermittent so that does't make sense. Also, if third's O.K. that suggests the fore-aft cable adjustment is fine and the left-right one will usually be fine on one side if a problem on the other.
 
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If the sleeve bearing in the tower shaft is drying up or rusting that can make some gears hard to select.

As a test pop off the little black plastic cover on the base of the tower, pour a little gear oil down through a funnel and then move the selector shaft back and forth, up and down to spread the oil around.

If that improves the problem then bearing could be culprit. They're replaceable on the TDi but a sealed unit on the petrol so needs the whole selector shaft replacing (still a reasonably easy DIY job). There's also a big ball bearing inside on each side that the tower shaft moves against and they don't get much lubrication. A bit of oil is a cheap test to cross a few off list of possible faults.

Also check the cable ends and the little white plastic thingy that fits on the tower weight for crud build up.
 
For the first time Steve, I have to disagree with you on something ( :eek: ?): two modes of clutch failure can be down to the clutch itself rather than slave.

i) On cars where used, the lever that takes the action of the slave cylinder to the clutch cover plate can wear, crack or bend over time. This can mean gears get harder and harder to select, particularly first and reverse.
ii) Most clutch cover plate (which clamps the friction plate to the flywheel at all times other than when the clutch pedal is depressed) have a large number of fingers that act as pivots between the central clutch release bearing and the 'clamping ring' of the cover plate. These can wear or occasionally crack. Also if the release bearing has started to fail, occasionally the fingers can be overheated and softened, leading to them bending.

Symptoms: a rather imprecise feel to the clutch, a bit woolly perhaps, harder pedal effort that a new, healthy clutch. Very low clutch biting point (i.e. feeling as though you have to ram the clutch right into the carpet to get a gear).

OP: yes, if you could pop the video up, it might give a clue. Whereabouts in the country are you?

You don't mention if you've got a 1.4 petrol or diesel. The petrol gearbox is usually particularly sweet: it's the nicest gearbox in the range. If a TDi however, I have found my current one does block fifth from time to time. Doesn't matter if I double-declutch, and much of the time it's fine. I just drive around it as there's nothing more that I can do: new gearbox oil, all linkages / shifter area etc dismantled and lubed. Gear oil came out perfectly clean.

I would suggest adjusting the linkage, but as you've said, it's intermittent so that does't make sense. Also, if third's O.K. that suggests the fore-aft cable adjustment is fine and the left-right one will usually be fine on one side if a problem on the other.
LOL
It’s ok. I KNOW that I am not always right and I welcome any corrections because the people we are trying to help need facts.
I am not sure that you were disagreeing anyway.
I just didn’t want to go into too much detail to try to keep it clear. But you are absolutely correct and adding that additional info will help anyone reading the post so thank you !

Steve B
 
LOL
It’s ok. I KNOW that I am not always right and I welcome any corrections because the people we are trying to help need facts.
I am not sure that you were disagreeing anyway.
I just didn’t want to go into too much detail to try to keep it clear. But you are absolutely correct and adding that additional info will help anyone reading the post so thank you !

Steve B
You beat me to it: I was just going to EDIT to highlight your excellent point on trying the gears without the engine running, which frankly I had missed in my first read ( :oops: ).
 
My wife has the car during the day so have not tried out any of this yet. Will upload video to flickr now and post a link. I am in Chichester,
West Sussex.
 
To be clear, whilst filming the gears were selecting ok. so the problem wasn't occurring whilst the video was made.
it is petrol.
 
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Hi,
This evening I tried the gears without the engine on and with the clutch depressed.
All the gears were selectable.

I then lifted the leather around the gearstick.
There was some rubber dust around which I removed.
Also noticed a tear in the rubber near the locking hole.
I am not sure how to get at the possible crud beneath this rubber/plastic part.
Does the square black plastic part unclip and lift up?



IMG_1869.JPEG

IMG_1874.JPEG
 
Does the square black plastic part unclip and lift up?

Yes, there’s 4 little clips in the corners you can see the prongs of a clip in one of the photos. If you squeeze the clips together then the rubber will slide up but access will be easier if you remove the plastic cover first.
Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hi All,
Been meaning to update this thread for a while now.
I gave up trying to remove the rubber / plastic part in the photo above. Would not unclip.
However when it went in for its MOT in November I asked them to change the gear box oil just to see if it would make any difference.
Don't want to jinx it but this seems to have solved the problem.
Happy Christmas
 
If all gears shifts easily when the engine is off but it is difficult to shift gears when engine is running you should try bleeding the clutch. It is easy job and no tools needed except 11mm wrench.
 
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