Do you want an electric A2?

Quite a few Year's ago I heard from an insider source that Israel intended to develop technology where a range of different makes of cars would all adopt a system using an identical battery pack/unit that would be able to be quickly withdrawn and changed at a range of battery "stations". The battery packs would, of course, not be owned, merely exchanged for a fully charged unit. Further, the recharging would be by solar power and Israel has plenty of that! I have put this on the A2OC site before. However, this never came to fruition .... That's a pity because it really would work!

David
 
DJ 190 said:
Quite a few Year's ago I heard from an insider source that Israel intended to develop technology where a range of different makes of cars would all adopt a system using an identical battery pack/unit that would be able to be quickly withdrawn and changed at a range of battery "stations". The battery packs would, of course, not be owned, merely exchanged for a fully charged unit. Further, the recharging would be by solar power and Israel has plenty of that! I have put this on the A2OC site before. However, this never came to fruition .... That's a pity because it really would work!
Click to expand...

Gogoro have developed a successful version of this for electric scooters in Taiwan: https://electrek.co/2019/09/23/chec...tery-swap-stations-for-its-electric-scooters/ Scooter batteries are obviously smaller and lighter, but an interesting idea.
 
yeah, I was impressed by that episode and what China already have on offer. Technically the new Polestar 2 is Chinese and they seem to have a number of cross over sized cars that I'm surprised they don't export at a higher margin that the prices they're sold for there. Seems to be getting into a situation like with smartphones. Where you've got established brands like Apple and Samsung, versus Huawei and OnePlus,

Highly recommend going through Fully Charged's back catalogue of videos though. Lot of information in there, including the on road charging poles. There's an interview with National Grid about how we'll actually cope quite well with renewables and battery charging.

The battery swaps in Israel was a few years ago. Was actually with Renaults I think? WIRED did an article on it, but the whole thing didn't work out, doesnt mean it cant though.

Fuel Cells and Hydrogen don't appear to have been mentioned yet, Riversimple are launching soon, albeit as car lease/club in nature and look interesting.
 
4markowen said:
Fuel Cells and Hydrogen don't appear to have been mentioned yet, Riversimple are launching soon, albeit as car lease/club in nature and look interesting.
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For cars, fuel cells/hydrogen is a dead end. 90 to 95% of hydrogen is made from methane. A car fuelled on such hydrogen would have higher carbon emissions than a comparable petrol car! For hydrogen generated through wind/solar, the inefficiency of the process, the inefficiency of fuel cells and the need to compress the hydrogen means that it would cost about 8x more than the electricity used to cover the same distance in a comparable battery-powered car.

www.greencarreports.com

Battery-electric or hydrogen fuel cell? VW lays out why one is the winner

Even outside of the fueling infrastructure concerns, VW maps out why battery-electric is simply more efficient for personal vehicles.
www.greencarreports.com www.greencarreports.com

RAB
 
I’m rather hopeful for multifuel miniature turbine generators like the MITRE system from a few years back.

You can run them on ethanol (which can be made sustainably but large quantities is a bit tricky at the moment) and they can be much more thermally efficient than combustion engines can manage in a very small footprint.

Technically very challenging and the start/stop for turbines is a bit more difficult I understand but still a hopeful route for a serial hybrid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If you convert your A2 to electric and it is registered between 1 Mar 2001 - 31 Mar 2017 then it will continue to be classed as a petrol/diesel and you will continue to pay car tax at the same rate as before.

I discovered this in this thread written at end August 2020:
www.speakev.com

UK DIY EV conversions - why so few? / testing requirements?

www.speakev.com www.speakev.com

What is not covered in the article is will the electric A2 be exempt from low emission zone (LEZ) charges. A lot of LEZ are enforced using ANPR. Could also be issues over insurance and MOTs.
 
Alan_uk said:
If you convert your A2 to electric and it is registered between 1 Mar 2001 - 31 Mar 2017 then it will continue to be classed as a petrol/diesel and you will continue to pay car tax at the same rate as before.

I discovered this in this thread written at end August 2020:
www.speakev.com

UK DIY EV conversions - why so few? / testing requirements?

www.speakev.com www.speakev.com

What is not covered in the article is will the electric A2 be exempt from low emission zone (LEZ) charges. A lot of LEZ are enforced using ANPR. Could also be issues over insurance and MOTs.
Click to expand...
Interesting. The only way to change this dreary bureaucratic attitude from DVLA is direct approaches to your MP, government and the Chancellor.
It doesn't rule out converting an A2 registered between 1st march 2001-2017 but it is clearly unfair that you continue to pay diesel or petrol road tax even though this is now an electric car.
 
Alan_uk said:
If you convert your A2 to electric and it is registered between 1 Mar 2001 - 31 Mar 2017 then it will continue to be classed as a petrol/diesel and you will continue to pay car tax at the same rate as before.
Click to expand...
I am sure that that's not true, otherwise wouldn't we have heard about this before? The poster is presumably talking to just one person at DVLA. Try someone else. The law is clear, electric vehicles get free road tax.


More likely the poster hasn't followed the correct procedure:

www.drivingelectric.com

Electric-car conversions: can I build my own electric car? | DrivingElectric

The idea of carrying out your own electric-car conversion seems tempting, but you’ll need specialist knowledge and it won't be cheap
www.drivingelectric.com www.drivingelectric.com

DIY conversion is not that simple!

RAB
 
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It is widely discussed in the EV conversion arena - I don't know if there's a way around it. We purposely chose a diesel for our conversion, because, for now, the road tax is cheap if it can't be changed. Don't scrap any X reg A2's!!!
 
55Stars said:
It is widely discussed in the EV conversion arena
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Do you mean professionals or DIYers? This seems to contradict your claim:

Welcome to Electric Classic Cars

At Electric Classic Cars we can source and build an electric classic to your specifications, or supply parts you'd need to convert your own car to electric.
www.electricclassiccars.co.uk www.electricclassiccars.co.uk

Under 'What are the benefits'.

RAB
 
RAB said:
Do you mean professionals or DIYers? This seems to contradict your claim:

Welcome to Electric Classic Cars

At Electric Classic Cars we can source and build an electric classic to your specifications, or supply parts you'd need to convert your own car to electric.
www.electricclassiccars.co.uk www.electricclassiccars.co.uk

Under 'What are the benefits'.

RAB
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That doesn't quite contradict my claim. They are a "classic" conversion company and most of their conversions therefore would be pre 2001 by default.

Anyway, I really am not an expert and my "claim" is only based on my own observations - I've seen the post 1 March 2001 issue discussed plenty online.

I'm learning here too!:)
 
This video confirm my own research;


It is USA but the $ amounts can be taken as a £ approximation. The 13 minute video is in 2 parts separated by a "ad" for his sponsor. Part 1 looks at using Tesla components with the aim of a long range EV. Part 2 looks at converting an old car - short range but much cheaper and less complex.

I would also add that using modern battery packs like Tesla means working with c350v systems that are not really suitable for amateur conversion. As an example, I read that with the new ID.3, VW will have 2 tier of service garages. Bottom tier for mechanical stuff and top tier for the EV electrics as working on the EV side can be dangerous.
 
Alan_uk said:
I would also add that using modern battery packs like Tesla means working with c350v systems that are not really suitable for amateur conversion. As an example, I read that with the new ID.3, VW will have 2 tier of service garages. Bottom tier for mechanical stuff and top tier for the EV electrics as working on the EV side can be dangerous.
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Most, if not all, modern electrics have high voltage (350-400vdc) battery packs. That's a lethal voltage since dc immobilises you. For some procedures VW have to discharge the battery as EV don't seem to have isolation switches. As far as electrics are concerned, VW have had two tiers of service since 2014 but that will change as sales take off.

RAB
 
I thought there had to be an isolation device/mechanism for safety purposes

Fairly sure saw training videos of fire services having to pull a link the location of which was known to them in advance by make / model

Would be a poor design without such
 
I've just been sent this new (today) YT video (30 mins) on a UK EV conversion specialist:


The company Zero EV is targeting the market for mass produced cars where the volumes are potentially high. However, they are at the stage of developing prototypes where they think the initial market is for at least 10 vehicles. They say their focus is on British marques though they are currently working on a Mazda MX5 EV (focus of the video) and a Porche. Their aim is to supply specialist car restorers/maintainers - so more classic market today with the mass market 10 years off. I suppose the A2 might fall in-between. Currently all their conversions must not modifiy the chassis as that has DVLA compliance issues. Video includes a walk around their premises looking at all the cars, equipment and bits they have accumulated.

Cost wise their web site says £20k for parts and based on the video we are talking about a 23kWh battery and a summer range of 100-120 (I guess 60-80 in the winter). They then talked about the specialist garages spending 60 hours (about £4k-£5k?) in labour.

Interestingly they said that whilst the "go to" batteries are Tesla they are in such demand (only used as Tesla do not sell new batteries) that prices are too high and availability low and things will get worse. Plus with the model 3 the batteries are built into the chassis so may be a "no no". Hence they are developing their own range of batteries. Quite ambitious for a UK company. I can't find out who their investors are.
 
I think it mysteriously went on fire.

The same guy mentioned earlier, Rich Rebuilds, is now trying to electricify a mini DIY for £5,000 to see if it can be done on a ‘shoe string’ budget. Fun but it involves sourcing cheap parts and lucking out a fair bit so far - benefitting from incomplete conversions by others and failed university and college projects etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yeah, I'd recommend tracking down the development videos of the MX5 of theirs too on their YouTube channel.

The Model 3 batteries are where second hand Tesla batteries branch off from most hobbiest/diy projects short of very large vehicles and pickup that can accommodate the packs.

The MX5 project is that the car itself is popular, but it also translates to most other British sports cars of a similar ilk.

The CCS charging system they discuss in the video for fast charging and potentially smaller batteries just went on their webshop and comes in at £3600.

The MX5 conversion comes in roughly, not confirmed at £20,000, but you're paying professionals to develop, install, and warranty their work.
 
Hmmm.

Let’s say you do 10k miles per annum at 60 mpg (diesel), that means your fuel costs for 758 litres is about £950, assuming fuel will rise to £1.25 once things are back to normal.

You also save £30 in road tax and maybe £350 in reduced annual servicing and repair costs. So far that’s about £1300 per year saved, from which you of course have to subtract the cost of charging the thing up. What would that be, £175 assuming you charge at home and very occasionally use a fast charger at a service station? I have no idea but just a guess.

So let’s say for arguments sake you save £1200 a year, £20k would take you 17 years to cover before you’re up, so on the current economics alone, no I don’t want an electric A2, to answer the question asked by the thread title - well not to replace a diesel anyway.

The answer may then change if there was a caveat about being forced to buy an electric car because of legislation etc. - but that won’t happen for a very long time yet.
 
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