Gearbox or clutch problem?

Vic

Member
All gears shifts easily when the engine (AMF) is off.
But it is very difficult to shift gears when engine is running. Especially 1st and reverse gear. Shifting gears requires a lot of of strength and feels that gears get stuck somewhere but go through with force and with loud heavy click sound.
It is better when engine gets warm but still shifts very hard.
Also when engine is in 1st gear and the clutch is pressed, the engine starts to vibrate. I thing it is a little vibration with other gears but it is barely noticeable.
Also it is very hard to get to neutral from revers or 1st gear.

I can do more tests if it helps to identify the problem.

Gearbox oil is changed a year ago.
Sliding shoe (1j0 711 550) and relay lever bushings (1J0 711 067 L) are changed but the old ones was not very worn.
 
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It'll be the clutch not releasing correctly: first and reverse are the gears that show this the 'best'.

Almost certainly the clutch cover plate is failing, although if it wasn't for the vibration part of your description I'd also say try bleeding the clutch. Worth having a look for leaks around the slave cylinder and master cylinder. Also check your brake fluid level as this is what supplies the clutch circuit.

I'm still new to A2's, but on many cars an alternative problem can be the clutch release arm can crack or wear: that'll give you the difficulty selecting gears, but not the vibration.

Ditto clutch slave cylinder: hard to select gears, but no vibration.

If you end up having a clutch fitted, make sure it's a big brand name: LUK, Valeo, Borg and Beck are the big names. Don't be tempted with National or semi-brands no-one's heard of: Google 9e.g.) 'National clutch problems' if in doubt, but the big names mentioned are all fine. Be aware some less good garages will quietly fit a cheap and nasty clutch so ask that the box it came in is left in the car if you have any doubts. This can be true of even the big service chains. If you have a garage you've used and trusted for years though, you'll be fine :)

If it is a clutch failure, the pedal will feel low and a bit mushy, the biting point will be near the carpet and the whole thing just won't feel positive.

Don't be tempted to put this off as you'll quickly destroy the synchro rings in the gearbox and possibly the teeth on the reverse gears depending on the gearbox design.
 
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All gears shifts easily when the engine (AMF) is off.
But it is very difficult to shift gears when engine is running. Especially 1st and reverse gear. Shifting gears requires a lot of of strength and feels that gears get stuck somewhere but go through with force and with loud heavy click sound.
It is better when engine gets warm but still shifts very hard.
Also when engine is in 1st gear and the clutch is pressed, the engine starts to vibrate. I thing it is a little vibration with other gears but it is barely noticeable.
Also it is very hard to get to neutral from revers or 1st gear.

I can do more tests if it helps to identify the problem.
Will add video later.

Gearbox oil is changed a year ago.
Sliding shoe (1j0 711 550) and relay lever bushings (1J0 711 067 L) are changed but the old ones was not very worn.
One thing that you have to watch out for is that if you have just started the car or if you have stopped at traffic lights you might have had the clutch depressed for a short while.
this disengages the gearbox and so it is not spinning. Therefore when you try to engage first or reverse with the clutch still depressed, the gears will be difficult to engage.

The next time this happens, put the car in neutral, then lift the clutch pedal and then depress it and try again.
Lifting the pedal like that spins the gears and makes it easier to select first and reverse.

worth a try!

Steve B
 
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Not heard the best reviews of borg and beck, think they were bought out and quality has suffered but please do your own research!

A new bearing sleeve is a good idea and have you considered the alternative gearboxes that offer different charachteristics for as little as £100?
 
Will try to bleed the clutch this evening.

About new clutch if it really need to change i am looking at LUK 622301800 (150 EUR) or Valeo 826533 (140 EUR) at local store.
I worry about the diameters... LUK is 220mm and Valeo is 216mm :rolleyes:
Whether they would be good for 2001 AMF ?
 
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One more symptom. In 1st gear car is slowly moving forward even with pressed clutch.
 
Then you have air in the clutch system or a similar issue. That would cause it to be very difficult to engage gears too as you mentioned.
So it needs someone to sort out your clutch hydraulics probably!

Steve B
 
I bleeded the clutch and now gears switches easy despite the engine is running or not. So it helped!

BUT now clutch pedal is harder (it is ok) and working different.

It previously started to catch nearly immediately - around 1/8 out and is fully caught by the 1/4 out point.
Now it starts to catch at about the 2/4 way release point, and was fully engaged around the 3/4 out point (see pic).

is it now normal and only needs to learn driving a2 again or i should to do something else ? :D

1599109285468.png
 
Hi
That sounds like a normal operation. It should not start to bite until half way (or so)

if it seem stiffer then perhaps it is because you are now using a different leverage? Before, your leg was probably fully extended and now it will be slightly bent because the pedal is higher?

Glad that it seems to have helped.

Steve B
 
Just be aware: a) clutch systems don't usually need bleeding, so there's a reason this has happened. b) This may be offsetting or overcoming (for now) another issue, because by bleeding the system you can almost temporarily re-calibrate everything. You may find over a day or so it creeps back to where it was.

Nevertheless, it might be fine as well! Either way, good luck with it, it certainly sounds a lot better than it did :)

EDIT: You'll know a good clutch, it'll have a light, smooth action and a reliable, consistent 'bite point'. Anything that feels like you're bending bits of metal, variable bite point, not very positive disengagement / engagement and / or hints of clutch judder are all signs of ageing / poorly clutches. Plus slip of course, but many clutches are toast long before this point.
 
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Agree with both Barry & Steve on this: There's an underlying problem here that needs urgent attention before it leaves you stranded. By bleeding the system but not addressing the issue, all you've done is temporarily corrected the symptoms - and now it feels different because it's working as it should.
 
Now the pedal is higher but also harder.

This morning i was a little scared when i released the clutch a little like before and the car didn't start moving :D but it began to move when pedal was released more like in NOW pic. Now i need to get used to the changed clutch pedal bite point.

Thanks for the help!

And where i need to look for a a long term solution ?

There are no brake fluid leaks and was no decrease of fluid level.
 
Now the pedal is higher but also harder.

This morning i was a little scared when i released the clutch a little like before and the car didn't start moving :D but it began to move when pedal was released more like in NOW pic. Now i need to get used to the changed clutch pedal bite point.

Thanks for the help!

And where i need to look for a a long term solution ?

There are no brake fluid leaks and was no decrease of fluid level.
If the fluid wasn't low and there are no leaks, the clutch doesn't feel very positive and you have no evidence of a clutch change in, say, the last 50k miles, start saving for a new clutch.

It might well turn out to be the operating arm if A2's have one (they probably do), but with most cars gearbox needs to come out to do this anyway. You'd put a new clutch in regardless.

If your car also has a dual mass flywheel (TDi 90), you'd have it checked for wear (rotational resistance and slack) but they often get replaced as matter of course.

One upside is fresh clutches are rather lovely to use: light and positive, assuming a good make.
 
Remember the clutch and brakes utilise the same reservoir, If the brake fluid has not been changed in a while it will contain contaminates. The brakes although still affected by this operate at a much higher pressure due to the ABS pump. The clutch on the other hand is only pressurised by your foot on the pedal. Any debris etc in that line will stay pretty much in the line. Many cars do not have the clutch line flushed / bled when the brakes are flushed, so over the years the problem gets worse.
I would do a complete flush , refill and bleed on all the brakes and the clutch line. That way you know it is clean.
 
All gears shifts easily when the engine (AMF) is off.
But it is very difficult to shift gears when engine is running. Especially 1st and reverse gear. Shifting gears requires a lot of of strength and feels that gears get stuck somewhere but go through with force and with loud heavy click sound.
It is better when engine gets warm but still shifts very hard.
Also when engine is in 1st gear and the clutch is pressed, the engine starts to vibrate. I thing it is a little vibration with other gears but it is barely noticeable.
Also it is very hard to get to neutral from revers or 1st gear.

I can do more tests if it helps to identify the problem.

Gearbox oil is changed a year ago.
Sliding shoe (1j0 711 550) and relay lever bushings (1J0 711 067 L) are changed but the old ones was not very worn.

In my experience changing a clutch totally transforms the gear change and the drive of a car. Ensure everything is spotlessly clean, output shaft spline on gearbox. Clean inside of bell housing, clean clutch fork and pivot point. Spot of grease where output shaft located in centre of flywheel. Change oil in box at the same time. Lubricate gear change cables. With the new clutch it will feel like a new car. Do it.
 
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