Hydrogen powered A2 anyone?

I’m more interested in Capacitor battery tech. Charge up almost instantly is a big plus. That coupled with induction on road charging and you’ll never have to get out to fill up a car ever again.
Couple that with auto drive, your car will drive itself while you sleep in the back and park itself when you get to you destination. Your car will also rent itself out as an Ubher style taxi when it’s not in use so your car is earning you money while your not using it.
When it needs servicing it will either download updates or take itself the the repair shop.
Parking spaces will be abundant as all these self driving cars will be out on the road, and no one will be lost for taxis.
What a world to look forward too. :)
 
"Instant" charging at home will never be a reality, whatever the storage medium. As you know, not being able to charge at home is not very practical to say the least, at least at present.

RAB
 
RAB said:
"Instant" charging at home will never be a reality, whatever the storage medium. As you know, not being able to charge at home is not very practical to say the least, at least at present.

RAB
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I don't understand your reply. I have a charging station at home, a 7kwh one. Though beit slow. 3.5-4 hours to charge a 24kwh battery from 10%.
No battery storage to perform this.
A super capacitor battery is different in that it would perform the charge almost instantly to the transference of static charge which is inherent in capacitors, obivously there is still a way to go in slowing down the delivery of power once charged to the point they are the same as or better than lithium ion and to reduce the standing dissipation of charge once stored if left. But the benefits of quick charging a graphene super capacitor battery bank would mean that induction charging with be super quick and could be done on route without having to stop.

As for it never being a reality, there are already Graphene Super Capicitor battery banks working in model cars, as for larger vehicles, one would assume Fisker (who are spending a fair amount of money into this technology) will help make it a reality for commercial vehicles.
 
AudA2Numpty said:
I don't understand your reply. I have a charging station at home, a 7kwh one. Though beit slow. 3.5-4 hours to charge a 24kwh battery from 10%.
Click to expand...

The rate at which you can charge is limited by the capacity of the connection. At the moment, the domestic limit is 7kw. So rapid/instant charging at home is not possible and won't be for a long time, if ever.

RAB
 
RAB said:
The rate at which you can charge is limited by the capacity of the connection. At the moment, the domestic limit is 7kw. So rapid/instant charging at home is not possible and won't be for a long time, if ever.

RAB
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But that should not limit charging elsewhere which can cater for higher capacities. It just means charging at home will be limited to the push 100a provides. If it’s not tenable to charge at home to full then who cares if you can get an instant charge on route.
 
RAB said:
While H2/fuel cells are more efficient than IC engines (not by much though), it is less efficient than battery EV's, from Wikipedia: "Professor Jeremy P. Meyers, in the Electrochemical Society journal Interface in 2008, wrote, "While fuel cells are efficient relative to combustion engines, they are not as efficient as batteries, due primarily to the inefficiency of the oxygen reduction reaction (and ... the oxygen evolution reaction, should the hydrogen be formed by electrolysis of water).... [T]hey make the most sense for operation disconnected from the grid, or when fuel can be provided continuously."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

Also where will all the hydrogen come from? 95% of hydrogen is made by steam reformation of methane. Not very green!

RAB
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Somewhat old research like the Bossel theory. He was proponent of bio fuels then EV batteries.

One of the biggest concerns is infrastructure and this is where we Brits are stuck with old systems that desperately need updating like the railways. But to electrify the railways would cost hugely more than running trains on H2 where the grid doesn't reach.

H2 is very likely to replace Natural gas or at least be mixed with it in teh very near future. Japan already has homes that make their own H2.

The Mira and some other H2 cars are no better than current EVs - too big and heavy. All you need is enough energy for the cruise like the A2 1.2 (40 to 60 bhp) in an aerodynamic / lightweight package. We don't need 180+bhp like my BMW i3 BEV. So size the fuel cell accordingly and use Capacitors, a tiny battery and regen for the rest.
 
RAB said:
No need for a peer review. Try taking H2 at 350 barg or LNG at a few bar through the Channel Tunnel!

RAB
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That will change. Hazmat on aircraft:

Laptop and mobile phone batteries are becoming an bigger concern in aviation. Many battery types are categorised as Dangerous Goods in the applicable ICAO Technical Instructions .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6

Over the past year major incidents: https://aviation-safety.net/database/issue/lithium.php

Last month:

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=206652

This month:

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=206906

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=194204
 
I was trying (and obviously failing) to show that 1L of HP H2 contains much less energy than 1L of diesel (of any sort).

RAB
 
I'm for EVs and enjoy driving them but I'm not keen on the "zero emission", battery marketing greenwash. Nor they way we are increasing consumption just as we did with the efficiencies of diesel by enabling vehicle obesity.

In particular, having been brought up in Africa and having friends who work in the DRC, discovering the carnage our battery addiction is causing the planet and it's less well off inhabitants. Not really any better than the fossil industries. 60% of the world's Cobalt comes from a nation the size of western europe. It's mining both legally and illegally, often by kids. #drccobaltkids

The wonderful efficiency of electric motors is in stark contrast to the poor energy density of even the latest Tesla cells. Our i3 has to shift 250kg of mass even at low charge. A Model S 750kg.

Whether the unit is used or not, it will degrade (around 3% per year isn't much for a large Tesla battery pack). Smaller packs mean efficiency advantages in terms of shifting weight but also higher battery deep cycling which further degrades long term capacity. Regular Rapid (50kW) charging requires temperature control (not bad in i3, less good in Leaf). Low rate charging means higher AC to DC conversion losses (household plug vrs 7kW). But even then the on-board computer and associated Apps don't tell the truth. Our car claims 3.8mi/kWh. But from the plug socket it's moire like 2.5mi/kWh.

The huge difference between winter and summer ranges cf ICE machines. Can just about get 80 miles in a 60Ah i3 vrs 50 in winter. That's with a reasonable pack and gentle driving. Even the latest Model 3 suffers in the cold. Notice how all the EV reviewers wear serious amounts of outdoor clothing even in mild winters! Bit like UK 1970s housing!

The 8 year warranties on packs are not to provide 100% capacity but more like 70 to 80% of the useable. So a 22kWh BMW pack allows 18 ish kWh from new and BMW only consider partial pack replacement to get you a 70% of the "charging capacity" which is around 18.8kWh. In other words only when you get down to under 13.2 kWh. So 2.5 miles * 13.12 = 33 mile range. And then top up to just over that?

At present under 5% of lithium based batteries are recycled and even then they are not re-made for EV useage as the materials are substandard.

2nd life for the packs maybe in energy storage. I'm involved with the Electric Nation project that seeks to understand EV charging for grid balancing. Also looking into using a spare BMW i3 pack in research with De Montford University. But again costs and cycling of battery pack is of concern.

We need to look at alternative solutions to carry the load, not just assume batteries are a silver bullet.
 
Don't look at hydrogen as being the solution, at least not HP H2. Compressed hydrogen costs about 2% of the power required for the compressor!

RAB
 
Both H2 and Electricity have to be made to be of any use. Both have environmental footprints, advantages and disadvantages.

Things have moved on since 2008 both with batteries and H2 fuel cell and production technologies. Even traditional ICE tech has improved.

On the H2 front there are fresh initiatives for all forms of transport:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tr...ed-by-hydrogen-fuel-cells-for-go-transit.html

https://www.triplepundit.com/2018/03/buses-trains-automobiles-hydrogen-economy-coming-town/

Old arguements are being re-assessed:

https://www.riversimple.com/2018the-world-moving-riversimples-direction/

https://www.triplepundit.com/2017/04/amazon-hydrogen-fuell-cell/

http://www.respectmyplanet.org/publications/fuel-cells/debunking-dr-bossels-anti-hydrogen-thesis

There's new battery tech as well:

https://www.ft.com/content/46adb98c-d8ef-11e7-9504-59efdb70e12f

https://www.wired.com/story/bill-joy-finds-the-jesus-battery/

As for Petrol and Diesel:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-m...-long-coveted-engine-technology-idUKKBN1AO0E7
 
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