Idiot on a motorbike

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craigyb

craigyb

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So I'm travelling home tonight around 19:30, roads are quiet and I've just come to a T junction with 3 lanes in front of me. Lane 1 is closed due to road works (RW) but its only cones and visibility is excellent . The road speed is 30 mph, traffic has just passed me in lane 2 and its clear, lane 3 has some cars and a motorbike approaching. I've moved across lane one as that is closed by the bollards. Can I legally pull out into lane 2 without upsetting anyone?
 

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I don't see why not, if you are turning left into lane 2 with lane one closed it is your nearest available lane. As long as no one in lane 3 is signalling to drop back into lane 2. Love the drawing by the way :)
 
Yes, sorry for the finger art on my phone, but I wanted to draw it how I remembered it. The motorbike nor anyone else was indicating left, the roads were empty, I let traffic in lane 2 pass me and the next car was very far away with ample time for me to pull out. I had my indicator on.

So according to the motorcycle rider I was dangerous. He revved his bike as I pulled out and my window was down so it scared the crap out of me. He then started having a go at me. We pulled up at some lights further down the road and I asked what exactly I had done wrong.

He said I was in the wrong to pull out even though my lane was empty. Well that's news to me after 35 years of driving
 
That's because most ( not all) bike riders think they own the road and all cars are just a hindrance that stops them zooming round at 100mph. You have done nothing wrong. He's probably just had a bad day at work and wanted to vent. Either that or you got in the way of his undertaking.
 
I do have sympathy for bike riders though, the amount of time you see people texting, turning round to shout at the kids or just not paying attention it beggets belief. The standard of driving over the last 10 years has fallen dramatically. It's the main reason I won't get another bike, that and the crater sized potholes everywhere, I drove over one the other day it was that deep I'm sure I saw Neil Armstrong in there :)
 
As a motorcycle rider it saddens me that we're all tarred with the same brush in a way you wouldn't tar car drivers. Sounds like he overreacted to you joining a free lane though riding defensively means I'd have been wary in the same situation. I'm rarely in a position to allow such though having had near misses in the past I'm all too aware of motorists 'not seeing' bikers though most often (in my experience) this is down to motorists not looking carefully (yes, I'm aware some bikers appear from nowhere due to their speed).
 
AFAIK he was not speeding and I saw him and just joined the road as normal. What annoyed me was his aggressive and pathetic behaviour like no one had ever done that before. I was in no rush to get out of the junction. I waited for several cars to pass safely before on turned into an empty lane. He was a dick
 
I think this case describes one motorcyclist who was a 'bag of dicks'. The story would have been equally valid if he'd been a 'Knob in a Beemer'.

I've nothing against motorcyclists (family and friends love the bikes) and I try to be a considerate and respectful driver to them but I can't help being terrified for their safety when I see them driving up the lane dividers, swerving between cars and overtaking on blind bits. I am equally horrified by Corsas doing all of the above as well as 105mph in the left lane.


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As a bike rider and car driver, i get very nervous when someone joins the inside lane, when there is already traffic in the outer lanes, because there is no guarantee that they will remain in that lane.
Strictly, if traffic is present, then the road is not clear and it is not safe to pull out.
There is risk is assuming that the traffic will remain in the lane that you first observe them and btw, they have priority.
Changing lanes is perfectly acceptable for many reasons, as long as they are legal ones.
There is a worrying trend in traffic joining a motorway from a slip-road, thinking that they don't have to give way to vehicles in the inside lane and this situation is just another variation of that.
Bottom line is that the bike and all other vehicles had priority over you, but you still pulled out.
Put yourself in the bike riders boots; if you thought that someone was going to pull out in front of you, how would you feel and what would you do?
 
The bikers opinion according to the ranting at me was I'm not allowed to pull out into an empty lane if people are in the next lane which I found absolutely incredulous as it would stop all traffic flow if that was the case. He was not changing lane, indicating, speeding, except maybe being too close to the car in front of him, but that's more what I observed afterwards.

So I would also like to know what his problems was and I asked him and I was told how wrong I was to pull out into an empty lane. I told him to check with the highway code and learn to ride.
 
craigyb said:
Yes, sorry for the finger art on my phone, but I wanted to draw it how I remembered it. The motorbike nor anyone else was indicating left, the roads were empty, I let traffic in lane 2 pass me and the next car was very far away with ample time for me to pull out. I had my indicator on.

So according to the motorcycle rider I was dangerous. He revved his bike as I pulled out and my window was down so it scared the crap out of me. He then started having a go at me. We pulled up at some lights further down the road and I asked what exactly I had done wrong.

He said I was in the wrong to pull out even though my lane was empty. Well that's news to me after 35 years of driving
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The issue here is that you are pulling out into a stream of traffic and you shouldn't really do it. You say that none of the traffic in lane 3 was signalling that they wanted to go into lane 2, but it's a common mis-conception that you have to indicate left to move left. In this instance, traffic could have been indicating left to turn left (you don't say if the side road you were in was a one way traffic road) and this would have caused confusion. Even if it was a one way traffic road, so not an option for traffic to turn into, indicating left could be mistaken by traffic attempting to turn out into the 3 lane road.

The rule of thumb on ANY road is that you use lane 1 unless overtaking, or the lane takes you in a direction you don't want to go. If you are overtaking, you then use lane 2 and then the same rule as above applies - if lane 2 takes you in a direction you don't want to go, then move out to lane 3, or use lane three to overtake further traffic.

You said you were indicating (to turn left?) - how could traffic approaching from your right see this? You also make reference to 'my lane' - do you mean lane 2 on the main road? If so, it's not your lane: you are waiting on a side road and it is the lane of the approaching traffic. The only lane that is yours is the one you are in at the time - so this would be lane 1 on the side road.

In this instance, you shouldn't pull out into the road, as you're pulling out into oncoming traffic who may be wanting to revert back to lane 2 and have every right to do so, without indicating. It'll be this reason why the motorcyclist has seen fit to 'have a go'. Motorcyclists tend to go on the offensive because in the event of an accident, they come off worse, often through no fault of their own.
 
Skipton01 said:
The issue here is that you are pulling out into a stream of traffic and you shouldn't really do it. You say that none of the traffic in lane 3 was signalling that they wanted to go into lane 2, but it's a common mis-conception that you have to indicate left to move left. In this instance, traffic could have been indicating left to turn left (you don't say if the side road you were in was a one way traffic road) and this would have caused confusion. Even if it was a one way traffic road, so not an option for traffic to turn into, indicating left could be mistaken by traffic attempting to turn out into the 3 lane road.

The rule of thumb on ANY road is that you use lane 1 unless overtaking, or the lane takes you in a direction you don't want to go. If you are overtaking, you then use lane 2 and then the same rule as above applies - if lane 2 takes you in a direction you don't want to go, then move out to lane 3, or use lane three to overtake further traffic.

You said you were indicating (to turn left?) - how could traffic approaching from your right see this? You also make reference to 'my lane' - do you mean lane 2 on the main road? If so, it's not your lane: you are waiting on a side road and it is the lane of the approaching traffic. The only lane that is yours is the one you are in at the time - so this would be lane 1 on the side road.

In this instance, you shouldn't pull out into the road, as you're pulling out into oncoming traffic who may be wanting to revert back to lane 2 and have every right to do so, without indicating. It'll be this reason why the motorcyclist has seen fit to 'have a go'. Motorcyclists tend to go on the offensive because in the event of an accident, they come off worse, often through no fault of their own.
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What you say above is in an interesting view, but I contest it legally from personal experience. - I had a very similar scenario on my first driving test, I'd been doing perfectly well up until this point, similar to above, pulling onto a two-lane road from a side street. My situation had a bus pulled in to the bus stop directly to the right, thereby stopping any traffic from using the lane. I saw cars were coming around the bus and moving into the left hand lane after the junction, but nervousness got the better of me and I waited for the bus to pull away before joining the left hand lane, thereby removing the issue of cars rejoining the lane and also not knowing if the bus was going to pull out into me.

I apparently failed my test for being "too cautious at the junction" - according to the tester I should have pulled out in front of the bus, ignoring the flowing traffic in lane 2. Was I cross? Too right, especially as this was back in the days when you had to wait a month before having another test :)

You live and learn - but please everybody Stay Safe!
 
craigyb said:
AFAIK he was not speeding and I saw him and just joined the road as normal. What annoyed me was his aggressive and pathetic behaviour like no one had ever done that before. I was in no rush to get out of the junction. I waited for several cars to pass safely before on turned into an empty lane. He was a dick
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He probably thought the same of you Craig. And if there'd been a collision, it would have been your fault for pulling out into a stream of traffic. You broke rule 172 of the code.

I do around equal miles in cars and on motorcycles. I am constantly amazed by the carelessness and selfishness of car drivers, who are normally distracted by phones, radios, doing make-up, lighting a fag etc. I am also saddened by car drivers who try to make it difficult for motorcyclists who filter in slow moving traffic, by actually trying to block them! One reason I choose to ride a motorcycle is that I don't get stuck in queues of traffic, which are frequent on the M62. I don't need a plonker in a car trying to make me wait just because they have no option to wait in the queue. Filtering is legal. It is not undertaking.
 
Skipton01 said:
He probably thought the same of you Craig. And if there'd been a collision, it would have been your fault for pulling out into a stream of traffic. You broke rule 172 of the code.

I do around equal miles in cars and on motorcycles. I am constantly amazed by the carelessness and selfishness of car drivers, who are normally distracted by phones, radios, doing make-up, lighting a fag etc. I am also saddened by car drivers who try to make it difficult for motorcyclists who filter in slow moving traffic, by actually trying to block them! One reason I choose to ride a motorcycle is that I don't get stuck in queues of traffic, which are frequent on the M62. I don't need a plonker in a car trying to make me wait just because they have no option to wait in the queue. Filtering is legal. It is not undertaking.
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Mike. it happens every day on dual carriageways, what you are basically saying is both lanes must be empty to enter the carriageway and as a road user I can change lanes at random without indication which is illegal.
 
sco said:
The highway code is quite clear - when you change lanes you should signal your INTENTION to do so:

http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/multi-lane-carriageways.html

Costs nothing to signal and might just prevent an accident.
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And it could also in this instance, cause confusion. Left indicating traffic could be mistaken for wanting to turn left, as opposed to move left.

Rule 160 says that once moving you should "
  • keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road"
So the only reason to indicate left is if you're turning, as otherwise you'd already be in the left lane, unless you're one of the increasing number of drivers who seem to think that driving a 'premium brand' car allows you to always drive in the 'fast lane'.
 
craigyb said:
Mike. it happens every day on dual carriageways, what you are basically saying is both lanes must be empty to enter the carriageway. That's utter nonsense.
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Yes it does and if you pull out into lane 1 such that cars in lane 2 are still going past you at speed, then you are in the wrong. It may sound like utter nonsense, but one of these days, you'll have someone pull out on you when you need to be in lane 1 and then you'll realise it's not nonsense.

In this case, you said that the cars and bike were not speeding, but yet within seconds, the bike was revving their engine at the side of you. This suggests that the gap to them wasn't safe for you to pull out into.

Unlike a motorway, or certain dual carriage ways, where there is an approach lane, a slip road, an acceleration lane etc, in this example you are pulling out with no way to build up speed to match the traffic on the main road. Therefore you need to wait for a gap that allows you to pull out safely. There was no gap, just traffic approaching in a lane adjacent to the lane you wanted to emerge into, traffic which had every right to move left. You didn't anticipate this, you were in the wrong and someone who was at risk of bodily injury chose to have a go. Were they right to do so? Perhaps not, but this doesn't excuse your manoeuvre.
 
Skipton01 said:
And it could also in this instance, cause confusion. Left indicating traffic could be mistaken for wanting to turn left, as opposed to move left.

Rule 160 says that once moving you should "
  • keep to the left, unless road signs or markings indicate otherwise. The exceptions are when you want to overtake, turn right or pass parked vehicles or pedestrians in the road"
So the only reason to indicate left is if you're turning, as otherwise you'd already be in the left lane, unless you're one of the increasing number of drivers who seem to think that driving a 'premium brand' car allows you to always drive in the 'fast lane'.
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Left indicating traffic in the left lane would indicate an intention to turn left.
Left indicating traffic in the right lane would indicate an intention to move to the left lane.

I don't see where the confusion comes from unless you are one of the increasing number of road users who don't indicate at all.
 
As always people have bad days , and lose the plot , put it behind you and move on
I ride a bike , and paid a shed load of cash out for further training , would recommend anybody that uses the road to have further training once you have passed your test , in my case 29 years later , wither this in in the car , Bike , horse , truck or pogo stick ,training helps avoid "incidents "

Drive safe , ride safe , look out for others, whom may make mistakes , one day it could be your mistake

For the record I drive upwards of 40K per year , and expect to be involved in a " incident" once / per 250K miles traveled , one in about each 6 years , the last 15 years supports this at 3 incidents in the time frame , all of which was on motorways at motorway speeds , all as a result of others failing to check mirrors ........

I now drive a A7 for work , as a result of the last one which flattened my C class coupe
 
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