lightest wheel and tyre options

Thanks a lot for the good links and the clear advice ?
I want to keep the cost down, and will focus on solutions that are obtainable for everybody.


Interesting advice @gills - 0.5kg gained per tire just by swapping from 185/60 R15 to 165/65 R15 is a lot and I will have to go deep in my selves and my passion for 185/60 R15, and find out if they are worth the extra 2kg.... do you have a pic of the 7 spoke you refair to?
cheers
dieselfan

Again Ribometaaltechniek, the same A3 pepperpot, superlight version and also made smaller.......so the possibility for narrow tyres.


Take a look around on their website, there's a lot possible in the weight department and/or if you want more info; send them an email.
 
165/70R14 on 5Jx14 ET35 rims would be quite light.

The following three tyres form a group of three. They all have about the same outside diameter and all have the same load index, ie. 81 (462kg) @ 44psi (3 Bar).

165/70R14
175/60R15
185/50R16

Notice that Audi only used two of these three tyre sizes for the A2, as being an Audi they had to be wide and low profile to keep up appearances.

This skinny tyre size could be ideal for use as a winter tyre. The Dunlop SP Winter Response 2 in this size has a surprisingly low noise rating of 65dB.

Dunlop SP Winter Response 2 165/70R14 81T

One benefit of fitting 165/70R14 tyres over the Audi approved 165/65R15 size is the cost of new steel rims. The 5Jx15 ET28 Audi steel rims cost about £73 each. Whereas you can get Alcar 5Jx14 ET35 steel rims for about £21 each. Multiple that by 4 or 5 and the cost savings are quite considerable.
 
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Steel is overweight in this case.
"Wide and low profile"? This is the mid-nineties we're talking about. Piech had a bee in his bonnet and was supported by his engineers. Vorsprung durch Technik - still meant something at this point. Please: read the book. The 17s were a *special option from Quattro GmbH* and only 7J.

The aim of the game was the first five seater four door 3l car. There were tax incentives in place at the time. If you don't know the history, drop the subject.

And no, you couldn't change tyre sizes without losing the 5l status, which was worth something - and 3l status essentially meant tax-free, which was around €400 / year at the time if I remember correctly. This is why there's a big discussion elsewhere talking about 3l, D4, and all the rest of it, as it was worth quite a lot of money at that time.
The reason the tyre / wheel combo starts with 15" is to deal with the requirement for reasonably large discs for braking performance. Anything less than 7m2^2 deceleration was unacceptable at the time in automotorsport, and it was *the* magazine. ams and Bild basically dictated what would sell and what would not. ams would test 10 times from 100 to zero, one after another, and 7 was their limit. Autobahn, high speeds, decent brakes are essential and anything that wasn't up to scratch would be panned. Note that the 155/65R15 in the original CoCs is only for M&S tyres to allow sufficient space for chains. Many ran these in the first years; 175/60R15 was rare, 165/65R15 essentially didn't exist but the paperwork said what it did. I remember cursing the cost of the Semperit 175/60s I bought as my first set of winters (on steel wheels).
The reason the ride is so stiff is because the A-Class Älgtest had recently happened, so a bunch of changes were made and every single A2 had ESP fitted from the factory (and tested!) before being let out. This is also the period with the retrofit of the TT with ESP and its spoiler, which was unheard of until this point. It was complex and costly but seen as the only way out. Essentially zero A2s were sold in Germany with steel wheels from the factory; it was possible to do but they're really rare IMO.

The weight differences between tyres will be minor but significant, depending on exactly what you're trying to do. If you are looking for balance, then binning the rear seats is the wrong way to go, as the TDI is already nose-heavy. There's a reason there are weights behind the bumper in some cars. But assuming a single size weighs something is also silly as there will be differences between makes and it's not immediately clear just how much.
 
The reason the tyre / wheel combo starts with 15" is to deal with the requirement for reasonably large discs for braking performance.
The A2 except 1.2TDI uses 256mm diameter front brake discs, which means that 14" rims will fit.

The 1.2TDI A2 uses even smaller 239mm diameter front brake discs, which means that 13" rims will fit.
 
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The weight differences between tyres will be minor but significant, depending on exactly what you're trying to do. If you are looking for balance, then binning the rear seats is the wrong way to go, as the TDI is already nose-heavy. There's a reason there are weights behind the bumper in some cars. But assuming a single size weighs something is also silly as there will be differences between makes and it's not immediately clear just how much.
Very good reading, Bret ?
The weight differences between tyres will be minor but significant, depending on exactly what you're trying to do.
My objective is to make an A2 lighter (minus 100hg) well handling, due to improved balance, for small money. No NASA, just make some small parts in my lathe and take advantage of access to titanium and Mg/Al alloys.

If you are looking for balance, then binning the rear seats is the wrong way to go, as the TDI is already nose-heavy. There's a reason there are weights behind the bumper in some cars.
If you read bullet #3 in the Letty thread you see that I declare A2 diesels as nose heavy so there is absolutely no discrepancy between our opinions on that topic., luckily ? (I have reduced weight with approx 62kg estimated on the front axle and less than 10 on the rear axle)

But assuming a single size weighs something is also silly as there will be differences between makes and it's not immediately clear just how much.
My English is not the best Bret and I am sorry for that, could you please explain so I can get the point ?

Cheers
dieselfan
 
A Dunlop 185/60R15 may weigh 8.5kg. A Conti 195/50R15 may weigh 9kg. But the Conti 185/60R15 may also weigh 9kg because of the way it's made, how the reinforcement is put into place and how much is used. Your weight index (185/60R15 84 Y) will probably tell you something here - higher numbers mean higher load ratings and therefore probably stronger build, so heavier tyres - but weighing the different tyres would be a good thing if you can. How much effort it's worth putting into this is another question.
I would also recommend the rear ARB if you want harmony in the handling. It will add a few kilos but the improvement is massive.

The A2 except 1.2TDI uses 256mm diameter front brake discs, which means that 14" rims will fit.

The 1.2TDI A2 uses even smaller 239mm diameter front brake discs, which means that 13" rims will fit.
Then we can talk about fade, guaranteed caliper clearance to the satisfaction of TÜV, absolute performance of a 14" rim, marketing implications of 14" rims as standard (3l excepted as it was a "special car" and advertised as such but then again only 7000 sold tells a story all its own) and the ability of a 14 with a correctly-sized tyre to deal with the extreme ESP push that was ongoing at the time... going to an 80 profile and 145 as on the 3L would have meant Audi would have been laughed out of the room. I was there, I understood the petrol-fuelled craziness going on, where 250 "wasn't fast enough", and the real power race between Stuttgart, München and Ingolstadt was in full swing. And Piech was pushing for minimalism, as he knew, deep down, that the craziness would stop somewhere.
 
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Thanks Bret, now it is as clear as it can be.
I will keep both load index and speed rating as low as possible for a lot of reasons, not only weight....
ARB - I have a design for an active hydraulic system I would like to try (we may have discussed that maaaany years ago for scirocco I ?
Cheers
dieselfan
 
How much do the 15inch steel wheels weigh ?
I bought some 16inch steels from a new beetle as I couldnt find 15s at the time
 
do you have a pic of the 7 spoke you refair to?
cheers
dieselfan

These are the 7 spoke 15" alloys, this one has a 165/65R15 tyre on:

PXL_20201111_144707200-01.jpeg


They weight in at 12.5kg with the tyre on:

IMG_20200801_164315958.jpg


and this is what the car looks like with them on:

IMG_20200821_165726526_HDR-01.jpeg
 
These 7 triangle cutout rims are only slightly heavier than the pepper pots around 600g from memory. They are a very sturdy rim
They are much lighter than the 16” se wheels which in turn are much lighter than the 9spoke sport wheels

The first time a picked one of the 15” wheels and tyres up after a 17” I nearly hit myself in the face with it as it was so light
The 17” sports should be bullet proof for the weight of them but they are made of soft cheese instead. Just heavy cheese

Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The biggest problem with the 17" sport wheels are the tyre side wall depth that they wear, or should i say the lack of it. This is what causes them to flat spot on the insides and go out of shape as as carefully as you drive when they hit just one of the many millions of pot holes on our roads there is not enough tyre to absorb the shock of the impact, hence the rim and the suspension take the brunt of it which obviously causes damage.

Run flat tyres are even worse as they have kevlar reinforced side walls so have no give at all hence why the alloys nearly always crack aswell as flat spot on the insides which is obviously weaker than the outside due to having no support from the spokes
 
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