Lower chain and chain tensioner replacements for the TDI

[Little Dog]

For the second "axle stands" read "ramps"!

RAB

I had already decided to disregard the stands and drive the car onto ramps without its auxiliary drive belt.

Clarification appreciated, thanks.

 

[Little Dog]

Got a list of tools together over and above what is likely to be in a std tool box:

T10060A. Locking pin for auxiliary belt and counter balance chain tensioners.
3415. Counter hold tool, removes crank shaft timing belt sprocket??? I think it holds it while a retaining bolt is removed.
T10061. Removes bolt from end of balance shaft. Looks like a std spline drive bit. Anybody know the size?
3359. Camshaft locking pin, locks camshaft position.
3387. Pin wrench, for adjusting timing belt tension.
T10050. Crankshaft stop, for locking crankshaft position.

Either of:
T10008. Locking plate, for locking timing belt tensioner, hydraulically dampened. To Chassis No.: 8Z-2-022 813?
T10115. Timing belt tensioner locking pin, friction dampened. From Chassis No.: 8Z-3-000 001?

T10172. Sprocket wrench, adjusts cam shaft drive sprocket / belt tension, friction dampened timing belt only.

Some means of supporting the engine from above will be required as the front engine mounting and the sump have to come off.

Gear puller with thin jaws to get behind and pull the chain sprocket off the crankshaft

Please nobody take this as a comprehensive list or buy based on this info. I will post up what I buy and what I use.

Comments please.

Edit: See how to thread for updated info / advice https://www.a2oc.net/community/inde...-chain-and-chain-tensioner-replacement.35539/

 

[Little Dog]

Here are the renewable fixings I have identified:

4 x Vibration damper retaining screws
1 x Toothed belt sprocket to crankshaft bolt
1 x Chain sprocket to oil pump bolt
1 x Counter weight to shaft bolt
1 x Idler sprocket to retaining frame bolt
3 x Chain tensioner to engine block screws

Again please only posted for comments at this stage. Will post part numbers for items used later.

Edit: See how to thread for updated info / advice https://www.a2oc.net/community/inde...-chain-and-chain-tensioner-replacement.35539/

 

[Little Dog]

To give an indication of costs at this stage I set myself a budget of £100 for the following tools:

T10060A. Locking pin for auxiliary belt and counter balance chain tensioners.
3415. Counter hold tool, removes crank shaft timing belt sprocket??? I think it holds it while a retaining bolt is removed.
T10061. Removes bolt from end of balance shaft. Looks like a std spline drive bit. Anybody know the size?
3359. Camshaft locking pin, locks camshaft position.
3387. Pin wrench, for adjusting timing belt tension.
T10050. Crankshaft stop, for locking crankshaft position.
T10115. Timing belt tensioner locking pin, friction dampened.
T10172. Sprocket wrench, adjusts cam shaft drive sprocket / belt tension.
Gear puller with thin jaws to get behind and pull the chain sprocket off the crankshaft

Found suppliers for a total of £96.55. To me that's roughly the cost of a mechanic looking at the job and scratching his head for a while (preparing for the job) plus returning tools and preparing paperwork / justification for the massive bill at the end (wrapping the job up).

See comments above regarding not taking this as a comprehensive / correct list at this stage.

Edit: See how to thread for updated info / advice https://www.a2oc.net/community/inde...-chain-and-chain-tensioner-replacement.35539/

 

[Guest 4123]

You only need to remove the engine mount to get access to the cam belt etc. Once these are removed, you could replace the mount temporarily. Otherwise you would need a frame to support the engine from the top. These are likely to be expensive.

RAB

 

[Little Dog]

You only need to remove the engine mount to get access to the cam belt etc. Once these are removed, you could replace the mount temporarily. Otherwise you would need a frame to support the engine from the top. These are likely to be expensive.

RAB

Thank you, I need to rethink the order of work because the engine can now be supported by its mounts or, I guess, a load spreader under the sump. Order is now:
Remove auxiliary drive belt damping pulley etc
Get car on ramps
Remove two screws securing sump accessed via DMF
Support engine under sump
Remove timing belt
Replace engine mount
Remove sump
Do the job

Reassembly though is not quite reversal as I only have 5 minutes to torque all the sump screws. I'll think of a way

First thought:
Replace chain drive, sprockets etc
Position sump and put a few screws in
Support on sump
Fit / set up timing belt
Support on engine mount
Remove sump
Apply liquid gasket and fit sump
Fit auxiliary drive belt etc

Edit: See how to thread for updated info / advice https://www.a2oc.net/community/inde...-chain-and-chain-tensioner-replacement.35539/

 

[Guest 4123]

Why fit the cam belt before the sump? Fit the sump and have done with it. Then support the engine with a jack with a wood block in between the jack and the sump and then replace the cam belt.

RAB

 

[Little Dog]

Why fit the cam belt before the sump? Fit the sump and have done with it. Then support the engine with a jack with a wood block in between the jack and the sump and then replace the cam belt.

RAB

Had to have a good think about that. Never done this before and having set the timing, cam to crank I didn't want to lose it turning the crank, clockwise only, to access two screws in the sump via the DMF. Thought better to secure the timing via the timing belt then I can turn clockwise as much as I like to get the two screws. I'm not sure how logic stacks up against practice but I will find out in the next couple of weeks.

 

[Guest 4123]

You can't set the timing until you have replaced the sprockets and chain. I'm not sure that you need to turn the crank to get to the two screws on the flywheel end of the sump. You will need a long driver to reach the screws - a T driver might be useful.

RAB

 

[Andrew]

........

Reassembly though is not quite reversal as I only have 5 minutes to torque all the sump screws. I'll think of a way

.......

Somebody once suggested what I thought was a good idea. Employ a few longish finger tight studs studs (or decapitated bolts) to act as locating pins to bed the sump spot on first time and secure with remaining fixing points. Whip out studs and complete the job. Dry run and refine before.

Andy

 

[Little Dog]

I'm not sure that you need to turn the crank to get to the two screws on the flywheel end of the sump. You will need a long driver to reach the screws - a T driver might be useful.
RAB

As you suggested RAB the engine turns very nicely with a socket and ratchet on the crank timing sprocket bolt. Surprisingly easy considering the compression ratio. I do need to turn the crank though to access both screws in the back of the sump.

This setup accessed and loosend both screws:

10mm 1/4 socket and long extension onto 3/8 T bar.

Can't get a direct onto the bolt though so looking for a long reach 5mm hex T drive for reassembly. Went for a long reach 5mm Allen key at £1.89 delivered. It only has to start the thread and I will then torque up with socket above. Still under my £100.00 for tools and I think I have everything

 

[Little Dog]

My timing belt kit came with a warning not to remove the tension holding tool. Unfortunately it came out in transit:

Can the tension be put back into the spring once the the assembly is on the car?

Thanks

 

[Little Dog]

My timing belt kit came with a warning not to remove the tension holding tool. Unfortunately it came out in transit:

Can the tension be put back into the spring once the the assembly is on the car?

Thanks

The supplier says I can so decided to get started.

Bollocks! Failed at the first hurdle:

Ribbed belt tensioner broke while trying to lock it. Didn't even get half way to the locking point and the hex sheared off. Best course of action cut the belt and fit all new???

 

[depronman]

The supplier says I can so decided to get started.

Bollocks! Failed at the first hurdle:

Ribbed belt tensioner broke while trying to lock it. Didn't even get half way to the locking point and the hex sheared off. Best course of action cut the belt and fit all new???

I had the same thing happen. I got a strip of aluminium about 30mm wide and 4mm thick and about 2ft long, drilled and tapped it to take some bolts that lock into the casting of the tensioner, works a treat to pull it back and fit the 4mm dia locking pin

 

[sco]

Did it actually shear or just turn the corners off? 5/8ths socket usually fits the cast hex better than 16mm.

If it has sheared off completely then I would block it with some sort of lever against the engine mount, cut the belt and release the tension as carefully as you can.

Simon.

 

[Little Dog]

Did it actually shear or just turn the corners off? 5/8ths socket usually fits the cast hex better than 16mm.

If it has sheared off completely then I would block it with some sort of lever against the engine mount, cut the belt and release the tension as carefully as you can.

Simon.

Yes

Done thank you.

 

[Little Dog]

I had the same thing happen. I got a strip of aluminium about 30mm wide and 4mm thick and about 2ft long, drilled and tapped it to take some bolts that lock into the casting of the tensioner, works a treat to pull it back and fit the 4mm dia locking pin

Probably helpful for others but I don't think this option would have shifted my tensioner. Got halfway with a spanner it locked, tried with a breaker bar it locked in the same place, got out my no nonsense breaker bar locked in the same place and snapped. The bearing in the pulley is a little rough 150k miles. Probably coming up for a change; just didn't need the additional expense at this stage

Thank you for the advice, appreciated.

 

[Guest 4123]

Just release the three bolts securing the tensioner. No need to lock the tensioner before removing it. When you replace it, put it in a vice and lock it.

RAB

 

[Little Dog]

Just release the three bolts securing the tensioner. No need to lock the tensioner before removing it. When you replace it, put it in a vice and lock it.

RAB

Thanks RAB had it in the vice and again it is absolutely solid half way to the locking point. I can only assume there is a stone or something in there.

Good advice and a good option for others with this problem. Thank you.

New tensioner on order.

 

[Little Dog]

I have:

Removed auxiliary belt and broke my auxiliary tenisioner. Even mounting it in a vice would not allow me to tension the spring and insert the holding pin. Bearing was a bit rough, new parts arriving today.

Removed the crankshaft auxiliary damping pulley. Car's a proper little tractor now. Probably pop it back on to get the car on the ramps.

Stuck now waiting for two rear hand brake cables. Front portion fitted but need good parking brakes for getting on those ramps and holding the car there.

Decided to check the tools:

Timing belt kit:

With items:
T10060A. Locking pin for auxiliary belt and counter balance chain tensioners.
T10050. Crankshaft stop, for locking crankshaft position.
3359. Camshaft locking pin, locks camshaft position.
T10115. Timing belt tensioner locking pin, friction dampened.
£7.54

Large tools:

3415. Counter hold tool, removes crankshaft timing belt sprocket??? I think it holds it while a retaining bolt is removed.
£32.90

T10172. Sprocket wrench, adjusts camshaft drive sprocket / belt tension.
£24.99

3387. Pin wrench, for adjusting timing belt tension (the pulley can also be adjusted using an allen key, I have other applications for his tool).

£12.17

Gear puller with thin jaws to get behind and pull the chain sprocket off the crankshaft.

£19.95

Long 5mm allen key to refit those sump screws behind the flywheel (get them started without crossing threads)

£1.89

Bump. T10061. Removes bolt from end of balance shaft. Looks like a std spline drive bit. Anybody know the size?

Edit: See how to thread for updated info / advice https://www.a2oc.net/community/inde...-chain-and-chain-tensioner-replacement.35539/