New 6 speed gearbox method - passat '11 onwards MYP gearbox

russellbridge

A2OC Donor
In short:
Stealth have come up with a new way of installing a 6th gear - using a Passat '11 onwards MYP gearbox. My new '04 A2 tdi 75 Sport (Paz's old car) was the guinea-pig - the install was done yesterday and everything works! It is a successful install which was done at a considerably lower cost than the Europarts method. (approx £700 to £800 total cost) The ratios are the same in gears 1 to 5, but with the bonus of an added 6th gear.

Longer description:
I was down at Stealth a month or so ago getting my Touran remapped. I was chatting to Vince about the Europarts route for a 6th gear and whether the price had come down at all. Vince mentioned that he thought he'd come up with a new method using the Passat '11 onwards MYP gearbox. A week later when I'd collected my new A2, I got in touch with Vince and agreed to be the 1st to try it. I then sourced an MYP gearbox from a breaker (advertised at £575, they took £450 cash - it was from a 15k mile Passat), and booked the car in with Stealth for yesterday. I also booked it in for a new clutch (as it's exposed during the install), and a G28 crank sensor as the car has been refusing to start. My car also had a fault on the gearbox - the syncro on first was shot, which I didn't know when I bought the car, so this would be a good way of dealing with that issue too.

We allocated a full day. Dan at Stealth did the work very professionally, with occasional input from Vince, both keeping me informed of what was going on, and letting me take photos and chat about what what issues were coming up. They extracted the old gearbox and sat the two side by side to work out whether it would work. They concluded that they needed to make a couple of brackets to support the gearchange cable carrier bracket which they'd taken from the old gearbox and offered to the new one. They made two new brackets - a right angle one, and a Z-shapped one to connect back to points on the new gearbox. They also swapped the drive flanges across. The old cables were re-used. They installed the new gearbox, noting that, like the JDD gearbox install, only 2 of the 3 mounting bolt points can be used, but unlike the JDD box, it doesn't need one of the bolt points to be ground down. They re-connected everything else back up. This was roughly 8:30am to 4pm, with a lunch break.

Everything seemed to work, so Dan took it for a test drive and said all was OK. Vince and I then took it out, and we compared the in-gear speeds I'd recorded on the way down. They were identical in gears 1 to 5, but now with the added bonus of a new 6th gear! The car was already re-mapped FYI. I don't know the exact ratios of either gearbox - both Stealth and I went into this 'blind' regarding the ratios. These are my recordings:

Old 5 speed box, recorded speed @ 2000rpm (read from display)
1st @ 2000rpm = 12mph
2nd @ 2000rpm = 20mph
3rd @ 2000rpm = 31mph
4th @ 2000rpm = 43mph
5th @ 2000rpm = 55mph

New MYP 6 speed box, recorded speed @ 2000rpm (read from display)
1st @ 2000rpm = 12mph
2nd @ 2000rpm = 21mph
3rd @ 2000rpm = 31mph
4th @ 2000rpm = 43mph
5th @ 2000rpm = 56mph
6th @ 2000rpm = 70mph

The throw pattern of the box is a lot tighter and less 'agricultural' than the old box, but it is notchy into 3rd and 4th, which might just be that the new 'box has been sat for a while and needs a bit of oil splashed around it. It feels similar to the pattern in my old Mk 1 TT. I'll report back in a month or so to see if it's got any better. Despite the notchiness it is an improvement over the old pattern (just), but it still requires 'grappling', it's not like the Touran which is a very light throw that you can do with 1 finger. On the motorway on the way home I used the new 6th all the way back to Manchester, sat at 60mph which was approx 1750rpm. It was happy at this speed, but not much less, and obviously a lot happier and far less rev happy at higher speeds. It would pull cleanly from 60mph, but I doubt that this would happen in an un-mapped car.

Photos below:
1: the 2 gearboxes side by side.
2: the gearchange cable carrier bracket moved across to see if it'd fit
3: gearchange cable carrier bracket installed properly with two new bespoke brackets
4: looking up at the car on the ramp without the gearbox in
5: looking up at the car on the ramp with the new gearbox in

The above is the total of my knowledge on this subject, so I can't answer any technical queries, sorry. I do not know, and I didn't ask, whether this will work for petrol cars too.

Vince is anticipating that quite a few people are going to go for this, so if you're interested, I'd get searching for an MYP gearbox at the breakers sooner rather than later!

Russ

Gearbox 1.jpgGearbox 2.jpgGearbox 3.jpgGearbox 4.jpgGearbox 5.jpg
 
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DJ 190

A2OC Donor
It is good to see innovation and an easier route to a 6-speed A2! My immediate reaction is, why has it taken all this time for someone to come up with this solution? I think that the only obvious advantage to the "Eurotuning" route, is that you do retain most of your original gearbox ratios.When I'm using my (Eurotuning) 6-speeder, I feel that I've got all the flexibility and usability of the original, 5-speed box, for country-lane work. Then the 6th gear is just great for more open roads, including Motorway use. It's ever-evolving, this topic! ..... longer 5th gear ..... JDD box ...... Eurotuning 6-speed conversion ..... Passat MYP gearbox .... How about a 6-speed AUTOMATIC gearbox?

David
 

a2sumo

A2OC donor
It is good to see innovation and an easier route to a 6-speed A2! My immediate reaction is, why has it taken all this time for someone to come up with this solution? I think that the only obvious advantage to the "Eurotuning" route, is that you do retain most of your original gearbox ratios.When I'm using my (Eurotuning) 6-speeder, I feel that I've got all the flexibility and usability of the original, 5-speed box, for country-lane work. Then the 6th gear is just great for more open roads, including Motorway use. It's ever-evolving, this topic! ..... longer 5th gear ..... JDD box ...... Eurotuning 6-speed conversion ..... Passat MYP gearbox .... How about a 6-speed AUTOMATIC gearbox?

David
David did you miss the bit that says gears 1-5 ratios are the same? i would prefer to keep the a2 box with the extra gear-but thats just my 2p worth
 

spike

Well-Known Member
Well, Stealth didn't report any, and it works perfectly, so I can only assume not.
Russ
Hi Russ, the reason I asked -

Ref Pic.1 of the two gearboxes side by side, the A2 box has a black boss, just above the driveshaft flange. On my 2001 gearbox, this takes a plug-in drive for the speedo signal generator. The new box does not seem to have this feature.
All I can assume is that your late model A2 uses the ABS speed signal for the speedo but this would add major complications for owners of early cars which need the plug-in drive facility.

Congratulations for pioneering this neat transmission upgrade by the way.

Cheers Spike
 

MikeMarsUK

A2OC Donor
Nice work :) gearbox swaps were one of the options the first time it was being discussed but there weren't many good options at the time. One guy in Germany did it but had to spend 2k euros or thereabouts, since it needed a lot of work to make it fit.
 

DJ 190

A2OC Donor
Nice work :) gearbox swaps were one of the options the first time it was being discussed but there weren't many good options at the time.
So why has this option only come to light, now? The box used is 2011 Yr., onwards? I suppose it could be that Vince at "Stealth Racing" is a genius?

David
 

dan_b

A2OC Donor
Time, inclination, supply of suitable donor gearboxes, donor cars to experiment on...
 

russellbridge

A2OC Donor
I asked Vince to read the thread through yesterday to check all of the facts, and to his credit he asked me to note that it wasn't actually his idea:
'The only thing I would say is that it was not originally my idea. Some other A2 owner brought the MYP to my attention with a view of his A2 being the guinea pig. So really credit to him really, but we never heard back from him regarding the installation.'
So, whoever you are, mystery A2 owner, your idea works! :)
 

Adrian888

A2OC Donor
Presumably/theoretically this will work on any VAG car with same engine/gearbox set up? Thinking Polo, Fabia and the likes. However cracking idea and pity we hadn't found this out a couple of years ago when the skipton autos 5th gear 'upgrade' was the topic of the day (I think mine was car no2 to have it done). If I ever find a spare £bob or £thousand down the back of the sofa i could still be tempted......
 

dan_b

A2OC Donor
Well it's still not a plug-and-play solution as it sounds like modification is required, and there is a question mark over the speed pulses for earlier models, but yes you're right, as another very early "longer 5th" adopter it would have been great to have had these options 4 years ago - the longer 5th is a compromise, a 6 speed box would have been ideal!
 

MikeMarsUK

A2OC Donor
David did you miss the bit that says gears 1-5 ratios are the same? i would prefer to keep the a2 box with the extra gear-but thats just my 2p worth
If the rpms vs speed figures are correct it looks like being very similar to Timmus's setup of a normal-5th with a long-6th (which I think is the best option).

If this had been available back when I had my 6th gear upgrade I'd have probably gone down this route rather than the ET route.
 

spike

Well-Known Member
Hi Russ, the reason I asked -

Ref Pic.1 of the two gearboxes side by side, the A2 box has a black boss, just above the driveshaft flange. On my 2001 gearbox, this takes a plug-in drive for the speedo signal generator. The new box does not seem to have this feature.
All I can assume is that your late model A2 uses the ABS speed signal for the speedo but this would add major complications for owners of early cars which need the plug-in drive facility.

Congratulations for pioneering this neat transmission upgrade by the way.

Cheers Spike

Update. Russ suggested I contact Vince direct to clarify the speedo drive issue on early gearboxes. This is his reply -


''There would be 2 possible options -


Option 1, would be to build the MYP gear kit into your existing gearbox if possible.

Option 2, would be to try and make your speedo work from the ABS sensors like it does on the later cars. Not sure if this would work without changing the instrument cluster? This could be tried / tested out before fitting of the MYP I suppose.

Regards

Vince''


Obviously more research (or a guinea pig) is needed for owners of older vehicles who are considering the Passat 6 speed gearbox conversion



Cheers Spike
 

dan_b

A2OC Donor
Just wondering, you say that "only 2 of the 3 mounting bolt points can be used" - does that mean that the gearbox is literally only mounted with 2 bolts, or was another method of instating a triple mounting engineered by the installers? I'm not sure I'd be 100% comfortable with a gearbox only secured by 2 mounts, that's a pretty narrow margin for failure.

Was the 2nd hand gearbox installed "as is", or did they refurbish it first?
 

DJ 190

A2OC Donor
Just wondering, you say that "only 2 of the 3 mounting bolt points can be used" -
Yes, that's the way it was with my JDD box ..... also, one of the redundant lugs has to be completely machined away! Apparently, there are other gearboxes that only have two mounting points, anyway!

David
 

russellbridge

A2OC Donor
Just wondering, you say that "only 2 of the 3 mounting bolt points can be used" - does that mean that the gearbox is literally only mounted with 2 bolts, or was another method of instating a triple mounting engineered by the installers? I'm not sure I'd be 100% comfortable with a gearbox only secured by 2 mounts, that's a pretty narrow margin for failure.

Was the 2nd hand gearbox installed "as is", or did they refurbish it first?
re the 2 mounting points - I don't know is the honest answer, but I trust Stealth not to do anything they're not happy with. The gearbox wasn't refurbished first, but as it came out of a 15k mile '12 reg passat, it can't have had too much abuse!
The gearbox feels really good having done a few more miles in it - I'm very happy with it. I'm seeing Timmus at the weekend so hopefully there'll be a second report on it coming soon...
Russ
 

PaulA2

Well-Known Member
Following on from my recent DIY conversion I would like to add the following detail to perhaps assist others on the forum who are considering doing this. My intention was to take the car to Stealth but as I did not know how bad the dual mass flywheel was on my car (bought with a faulty DMF with no direction how long it had been bad) I did not want to risk driving it too far.

I would first and foremost like to thank the mystery A2 owner that has made the discovery that the box is an option for the 6 speed conversion and to Vince at Stealth for allowing previous upgrades to be documented like they have. Without either I would not have progressed.

Secondly – this is only information from the grey matter of a DIY mechanic / enthusiast, it is by no means authority and any works completed are done so at the risk of the individual trying it. I am of course here to help where I can but while it is a doable project it all depends on your own skill sets and car.

Why did I do it? I sourced a 90 on a trade sale basis that I believe is a great car in the making but it had a suspect DMF and was in a sorry state. It has clearly been maintained as brand new alternator and drop links etc but it is well used and as sold on trade terms it was seen in its raw form which I prefer anyway as nothing covered up. I need a comfortable “cheap” car for a regular commute and the A2 fits the bill nicely and I love them. I have been after a 90 for a long time and this one finally appeared within my unrealistic budget.

Anyway this is how I recall doing the conversion (no pictures sorry as I was literally covered in dirt and grime from head to toe!) on my drive at home.

Firstly I loosed the drive shaft hub nuts 36mm multispline socket then drove the car up onto the ramps. Wheel nuts loosened, bonnet removed and battery disconnected.

Remove engine cover
Remove starter motor – cut off large zip tie and slide off plastic cover. Remove 13mm nut that secures the cables. Carefully disconnect the connector off starter and gearbox.
Remove bracing bar from engine mount to starter motor bolt – both 13mm
Under car remove engine tray – various torx screws (t25 IIRC) and I had 2 bolts that secure it to the chassis legs under the wheel arch (10mm IIRC)
Remove earth cable from starter motor bolt (13mm)
Remove the 2 main starter securing bolts (18mm deep socket) and carefully withdraw starter through the top of the car
I then removed the passenger side driveshaft. Remove 36mm nut (sometimes 17mm allen key nut / cover) these need to be renewed on replacement due to barbs on inner edge to prevent it undoing if loose. Jack up car and secure on stands to remove wheel. Quite trickey as car is high now but I used bricks to raise stands to ensure they were as stable as possible. I used a large hub puller to extract the outer cv joint from the hub. Previous experience from doing this has lead me to use a suitable old socket over the threaded part first to prevent it from damaging the end with the puller. It was as very tight so be careful! Once it started to move I then removed the inner joint multi spline bolts (6 of them). You may need to rotate the shaft to access all of them. To completely withdraw the shaft I removed the ball joint to allow the strut to be moved aside. All was put together to allow wheel to be re-installed minus drive shaft to rest the car on the ramps again.
Next remove the 6 multispline bolts on the driver side shaft. To do this I removed the shaft cover (2 x 16mm bolts). The shaft was left in situ but carefully secured with rope to prevent damage.
In the top of the car I then moved the gear change cables after labelling to ensure put back in right place. I carefully levered them off the ball joints and removed from cable guide. This is done by twisting the end of the plastic housing that sits in the metal guide using the 2 raised tabs. (Clockwise I think!) The cables then lift out of guide; one cable also needs to be removed from a securing loop at the rear of the same metal holder. From under the car remove a 10mm nut securing the bracket (that holds the heavy battery cables that run under the car) to the cable guide bracket.
I removed the cable guide (3 x 13mm bolts) as I was unable to access one of the 18mm bolts securing box to engine.
Next I removed the slave clutch cylinder (2x 13mm bolts) and carefully withdrew from the box.
I then carefully loosened (Only slightly while all engine mounts in place) the box to engine bolts, 2 x 18mm at top of engine under water pipes, 1 x 18mm near flange for driver side shaft, 1x 16mm under car that needs a 13mm nut removing to secure the radiator hose bracket. Next I removed the dog bone mounting plate (3 x 16mm bolts) and dog bone (17mm nut and bolt with a 16 mm bolt securing to subframe) to expose the final 1 x 16 mm bolt securing box to engine to loosen.
At this stage I also drained the gearbox oil using the 17mm allen key type socket. I did this as I needed to remove the driver side drive shaft flange and was not sure if any oil would indeed come out but did not want to foul the drive! Explanation later.
I then used jacks to take weight of box and engine to remove 2 x 16mm bolts on gearbox mount and carefully lower onto stands taking care not to foul exhaust onto the sub frame and ensuring all items disconnected. To prevent the gearbox end mount fouling on the AC pipes I removed the 3 multispline bolts securing the component to the box. I ensured the box and engine were fully supported by the axle stands in preparation for removing the gearbox securing bolts. I used a jock to take the weight of the gearbox and slowly removed all the bolts. I again used a piece of timber between box and jack to spread the load and protect the old box.
Once all bolts were removed it was time to split the box and engine, this seemed to be harder than what it should be and I ended up having to remove the earlier mentioned driver side drive shaft flange from the gearbox as it was fouling on my flywheel. This is held in place by a 6mm allen key bolt. This could then be carefully withdrawn taking care not to foul the seals on the box. This is why I drained the oil. I would suggest that this is perhaps best done while engine and box are on all mounts as was getting crowded with jacks, stands etc under the car. It may not always be necessary and with 2 sets of hands working on the car it could perhaps be possible to manhandle the box out.
The box was then free of the car exposing clutch and DMF. I had to remove clutch first as I could not get to the multispline bolts securing DMF to crank due to excessive wear in clutch and DMF. This was simply a case of removing a load of small multispline screws around the edge of the pressure plate. Once clutch completely removed I needed to remove the 6 multispline bolts securing the DMF to the crank. This was trick as the flywheel wanted to rotate so I prevent this by using a small clutch screw through the end of a ring spanner in order to allow me to then hold in situ while removing the DMF bolts. The DMF is heavy so be careful when removing.
Once all out I could set about making the brackets required to hold the gear selector cables in place as highlighted by Russellbridge in his thread. There is a securing point already in the box for the front (radiator end) of the cable tray and this was used to secure in place ensuring it was in perfect line with the rear bolt used to secure the z shape bracket. Finally the right angled bracket was installed. It holds the cable guide bracket securely and as the bracket is mounted through rubber bushes a little flex is to be expected.
As the box was from a low mileage car I did not need to change the bushes on the release arm but did elect to change the release bearing for an LUK item (part number 644440050) and cleaned the input shaft. The release bearing is held on by a couple of clips that secure to release arm. To remove release arm if needed, at pivot end prise out one of the spring clips. To refit simply re-insert the spring clip and it then pushes back onto the pivot point.
The LUK DMF and clutch kit (Part number 417 0047 10) was sourced from www.partservice.co.uk along with the bearing for £405 delivered on a Saturday.
This come ready assembled so all you need to do is install the complete assembly. For completeness I checked the clutch bolts and they were fine.
The bolts for the DMF to crank only fit in a single position due to the spacing of the bolts, these need to be tightened to a specified torque cant remember but I seem to recall its 60NM plus 90 degrees but PLEASE check!
I then removed the gear change mech off the old box to install on the new one. Be advised the splines on the shaft have a larger spline which is used to locate it in the correct place, the 13mm nut that holds then on is a special one that is designed so it will not come loose so ensure it is the right one that is used to put back on. The sleeves on the other part of the swivel arm of the mech were checked and cleaned. I also left the gear cable carrier off (but attached to the brackets I made).
The drive shaft flanges were also changed by removing the 6mm allen key bolts and swapping from my old box. They are spring loaded so need to be pushed in firmly to allow the bolt to be re-installed.
Then the fun starts to re-install the box. Care needs to be taken to prevent the spline input shaft fowling on the clutch. It also needs to inserted at the correct angle in line with the centre of the clutch. This is not the easiest to do on your own but care needs to be taken and it should not be force, I very loosely installed the lower gearbox bolts to use as guides when man handling the box onto the engine.
Upon mating it correctly to the engine all components were installed in the reverse order.

I was lucky that when I reinstated the gear change cables onto the selector mechanism no adjustments needed to be made, this may change over time and in different situations.

That is as much as I can recall from the grey matter a few days after completing the conversion. If anyone wants any help please shout and I will do what I can.
 
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