Bala_de_plata
Member
The s.c. "sweet spot" of the BSFC is at 2250 RPM when driving in the 6th gear (AMF/BHC).
New 6 speed gearbox method - passat '11 onwards MYP gearbox
- Thread starter russellbridge
- Start date
Bala_de_plata
Member
I don't know what you mean as I was talking about fuel consumption...
E T Oddie
Banned
We cannot achieve the sweet spot for any length of time on our pot hole infested Autobahns in Scotland , and should you wish to , you do so at the risk of penalty point from Police Scotland Offlicers.
Speed Limit 70mph 2000rpm.
..................80mph unknown some of Euros to the Polis, we want to remain in Europe in Scotland, maybe once we get Independence we can up the speed limit from the Border to get home quicker and this in turn will free up the Traffic Polis to get off their Phat derriere's and concentrate on the Criminals in Westminster.
Speed Limit 70mph 2000rpm.
..................80mph unknown some of Euros to the Polis, we want to remain in Europe in Scotland, maybe once we get Independence we can up the speed limit from the Border to get home quicker and this in turn will free up the Traffic Polis to get off their Phat derriere's and concentrate on the Criminals in Westminster.
Bala_de_plata
Member
Roads are OK in Scotland. At least, they were last year. Believe me, I've seen a lot.
Right, I forgot to speed limits, sorry. Still, it is possible to use the 6th gear between 80 and 112 km/h (50...70 MPH) when driving in a plain terrain.
Right, I forgot to speed limits, sorry. Still, it is possible to use the 6th gear between 80 and 112 km/h (50...70 MPH) when driving in a plain terrain.
BiggDogg
A2OC Donor
OK, so I acquired an MYP gearbox last July on eBay and decided this weekend was time to do something with it. The other incentive is that the DMF has been causing a vibration at idle when cold which disappears when the clutch is pressed. This builds up and disappears over the course of a few seconds and has been the same for 30,000 miles or so.
Obviously I've been using russelbridge's and PaulA2's excellent write-ups further up this thread.
Things have been a good bit slower than I expected, though I have taken a short-cut and got away so far without removing the wheels or driveshafts at the out ends, opting instead to remove the 3 bolts at the ends of the wishbones and swing the whole suspension, hubs, wheels etc out far enough, allowing the near-side driveshaft to be pivoted forward and tied up at the end of the front bumper.
I thought I would try and add something technically. Please find attached a .pdf file with instructions on how I made the cable bracket adaptors. NB: This is for the GRJ gearbox fitted to the ATL engine. I am about half way through, the next jobs are to change to a new Luk DMF and clutch then fit new release arm, spring, release bearing.
Slightly kicking myself for not realising in advance that ALL the 5 gearbox mounting bolts are stretch bolts, so there will be a couple of days' pause whilst I get those.
A couple of questions for those in the know:
When swapping the driveshaft flanges, what is the torque setting for the 6mm Allen key bolt?
Can I re-use the clutch slave cylinder which came with the MYP gearbox? The bleed nipple looks to be in a better position.
I'll do an update when it is done, but no promises for when.
MattView attachment Cable carrier mounting adaptors for GRJ to MYP gearbox conversion.pdf
Obviously I've been using russelbridge's and PaulA2's excellent write-ups further up this thread.
Things have been a good bit slower than I expected, though I have taken a short-cut and got away so far without removing the wheels or driveshafts at the out ends, opting instead to remove the 3 bolts at the ends of the wishbones and swing the whole suspension, hubs, wheels etc out far enough, allowing the near-side driveshaft to be pivoted forward and tied up at the end of the front bumper.
I thought I would try and add something technically. Please find attached a .pdf file with instructions on how I made the cable bracket adaptors. NB: This is for the GRJ gearbox fitted to the ATL engine. I am about half way through, the next jobs are to change to a new Luk DMF and clutch then fit new release arm, spring, release bearing.
Slightly kicking myself for not realising in advance that ALL the 5 gearbox mounting bolts are stretch bolts, so there will be a couple of days' pause whilst I get those.
A couple of questions for those in the know:
When swapping the driveshaft flanges, what is the torque setting for the 6mm Allen key bolt?
Can I re-use the clutch slave cylinder which came with the MYP gearbox? The bleed nipple looks to be in a better position.
I'll do an update when it is done, but no promises for when.
MattView attachment Cable carrier mounting adaptors for GRJ to MYP gearbox conversion.pdf
For torque settings look up my thread here:
http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?23606-General-A2-Servicing-Information
Sarge
http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?23606-General-A2-Servicing-Information
Sarge
BiggDogg
A2OC Donor
I finished the MYP gearbox conversion and DMF replacement yesterday evening. 
Has anyone counted how many of us have done this mod now?
I managed to save a little time by not taking neither driveshaft out of the hubs, instead disconnecting the (pressed steel wishbone) balljoints from the wishbones by releasing the 3 screws. There was just enough room to fit the old flange shaft to the driver's side once the gearbox was mated to the engine again, but I had to turn the steering to full lock and take care of what was happening to the other driveshaft at the same time as I didn't release the steering tie rods or drop links either. I decided to keep the old clutch slave cylinder as the hydraulic pipe junction was at a different angle and I didn't fancy bending the pipe and maybe kinking it, so I didn't break the hydraulic circuit but somehow it had a load of air in and needed pressure bleeding with an old Gunson kit.
After adjusting the gear cables everything could be selected. With the car still on the axle stands and idling, I selected each forward gear and reverse without any adverse effects. Some air was punched! The ASR warning lamp was flashing though, clearly doesn't like having the back wheels stationary and the fronts at 35mph at 1000rpm in 6th.
The throw seems considerably shorter, not really notchy but somehow not quite so positive as before. It will take a little getting used to and the change of gearbox oil might see it ease up after a few miles. The new clutch feels (as it should) like a brand new car and the vibration from cold in neutral with the clutch engaged has mercifully vanished. I did a side-by side comparison of the old and new DMFs and the old one had wear that amounted to about 1mm up and down movement at the perimeter if you tried to pull up on one side of the clutch cover while pushing down diagonally opposite. The new one has zero movement, and this is for 2 Luk DMFs.
One tip: Elsawin says to put a M8x35mm screw into the front-most cable support bracket screw hole and use it to hold the clutch release arm back, and compress the slave cylinder before fitting the gearbox. I guess this is to guard against anything coming out of place inside before it is mated up. Obviously I read this and took off the cable support bracket from the newly-fabricated adaptors before fitting the new gearbox.
Thanks to Sarge for the link to his excellent post giving torque figures. The 2x countersunk head 6mm Allen key bolts that attach the old driveshaft flanges into the new gearbox need torquing to 25 Nm after compressing the springs a little. If I did the job again I would probably use a large G clamp for the compressing force but as it was I just used hand pressure to get the first couple of threads engaged but thinking about it, the spring reaction might have affected the torque a little.
It has taken me an embarrassingly long time to do this, probably more than 30 hours over the course of 2 weekends and 2 evenings but I do like to faff about quite a lot, look for tools I last saw 5 years ago, too many tea breaks, etc.
The gearbox mounting console bolts (multi-spline x3 and hex-head x2) as well as the centre pendulum bolt are all stretch bolts so should not be re-used. None were in stock at Audi, only the pendulum was available in 2 days and the other 2 types were on back order from Germany. Since these all have to come out for the relatively common task of changing the clutch I assume that nobody in the UK uses the new Audi bolts, or else re-uses the old ones. Given the choice of waiting 2 weeks or re-use the old ones with Loctite you can guess which way I went. I just re-torqued with the torque-wrench, leaving off the angle so as not to re-stretch and risk breakage. I also noticed that the wishbone bolts are stretch bolts, those have received the same treatment after cleaning the threads with a wire brush. I'm not 100% confident about this but my mates seem to think it's OK. Someone mentioned BMW or Mercedes give a max. permitted length for a stretch bolt for re-use but it seems not Audi.
I've been on a couple of runs, one to 70mph (2000 rpm) which was nice.
About swapping the flange-shafts: It seems the only difference between the GRJ and MYP flange shafts is the fact that the threaded holes for the 6 driveshaft boltas are M10 on the GRJ gearbox flanges and M8 on the MYP gearbox flanges. Is this correct?
Anyone want an old GRJ gearbox (you will need to swap your flanges!)
What did it cost me (all prices inc. VAT and delivery, rounded up to nearest £)
LUK DMF with clutch cover, driven plate and screws (ready-assembled to bolt on) eBay £435
MYP gearbox from Passat with 52 miles £340
LUK release bearing, arm and spring eBay £32
Front oil seal / clutch bearing sleeve eBay £15
Comma fully synthetic MVMTF Plus 75W gear oil Halfords £22
TOTAL £844
Obviously if I had not “needed” a new DMF then it would have been less than half the price. I think I was quite lucky to get the gearbox for that price, especially considering it came nicely shrink-wrapped and tied securely onto a custom made pallet.
Problem areas / still to do.
Notwithstanding the stretch-bolt availability debacle, the starter isn’t making a happy noise. I’m almost certain I remember torquing up both bolts properly. I am wondering if it is just the sharp burrs on the new flywheel ring gear teeth need to be worn off by the starter pinion, but you don’t get this noise from a brand new car… once I re-check the gear oil level on the flat later (I filled it with the car on the axle stands) I’m going to run it up the ramps and check the starter out before re-fitting the undertray.
I’m not certain that gear selection is quite as it should be. When I got the car the gear selection was fairly heavy and it has lightened up with regular use. I feel I need to go on a long run and get the gearbox fully hot before I’m happy that it’s OK.
I’ll be telling my insurance company as this is a non-standard mod.
Need to sort the gearstick emblem – I bought a cheap one but have misplaced it.
Has anyone counted how many of us have done this mod now?
I managed to save a little time by not taking neither driveshaft out of the hubs, instead disconnecting the (pressed steel wishbone) balljoints from the wishbones by releasing the 3 screws. There was just enough room to fit the old flange shaft to the driver's side once the gearbox was mated to the engine again, but I had to turn the steering to full lock and take care of what was happening to the other driveshaft at the same time as I didn't release the steering tie rods or drop links either. I decided to keep the old clutch slave cylinder as the hydraulic pipe junction was at a different angle and I didn't fancy bending the pipe and maybe kinking it, so I didn't break the hydraulic circuit but somehow it had a load of air in and needed pressure bleeding with an old Gunson kit.
After adjusting the gear cables everything could be selected. With the car still on the axle stands and idling, I selected each forward gear and reverse without any adverse effects. Some air was punched! The ASR warning lamp was flashing though, clearly doesn't like having the back wheels stationary and the fronts at 35mph at 1000rpm in 6th.
The throw seems considerably shorter, not really notchy but somehow not quite so positive as before. It will take a little getting used to and the change of gearbox oil might see it ease up after a few miles. The new clutch feels (as it should) like a brand new car and the vibration from cold in neutral with the clutch engaged has mercifully vanished. I did a side-by side comparison of the old and new DMFs and the old one had wear that amounted to about 1mm up and down movement at the perimeter if you tried to pull up on one side of the clutch cover while pushing down diagonally opposite. The new one has zero movement, and this is for 2 Luk DMFs.
One tip: Elsawin says to put a M8x35mm screw into the front-most cable support bracket screw hole and use it to hold the clutch release arm back, and compress the slave cylinder before fitting the gearbox. I guess this is to guard against anything coming out of place inside before it is mated up. Obviously I read this and took off the cable support bracket from the newly-fabricated adaptors before fitting the new gearbox.
Thanks to Sarge for the link to his excellent post giving torque figures. The 2x countersunk head 6mm Allen key bolts that attach the old driveshaft flanges into the new gearbox need torquing to 25 Nm after compressing the springs a little. If I did the job again I would probably use a large G clamp for the compressing force but as it was I just used hand pressure to get the first couple of threads engaged but thinking about it, the spring reaction might have affected the torque a little.
It has taken me an embarrassingly long time to do this, probably more than 30 hours over the course of 2 weekends and 2 evenings but I do like to faff about quite a lot, look for tools I last saw 5 years ago, too many tea breaks, etc.
The gearbox mounting console bolts (multi-spline x3 and hex-head x2) as well as the centre pendulum bolt are all stretch bolts so should not be re-used. None were in stock at Audi, only the pendulum was available in 2 days and the other 2 types were on back order from Germany. Since these all have to come out for the relatively common task of changing the clutch I assume that nobody in the UK uses the new Audi bolts, or else re-uses the old ones. Given the choice of waiting 2 weeks or re-use the old ones with Loctite you can guess which way I went. I just re-torqued with the torque-wrench, leaving off the angle so as not to re-stretch and risk breakage. I also noticed that the wishbone bolts are stretch bolts, those have received the same treatment after cleaning the threads with a wire brush. I'm not 100% confident about this but my mates seem to think it's OK. Someone mentioned BMW or Mercedes give a max. permitted length for a stretch bolt for re-use but it seems not Audi.
I've been on a couple of runs, one to 70mph (2000 rpm) which was nice.
About swapping the flange-shafts: It seems the only difference between the GRJ and MYP flange shafts is the fact that the threaded holes for the 6 driveshaft boltas are M10 on the GRJ gearbox flanges and M8 on the MYP gearbox flanges. Is this correct?
Anyone want an old GRJ gearbox (you will need to swap your flanges!)
What did it cost me (all prices inc. VAT and delivery, rounded up to nearest £)
LUK DMF with clutch cover, driven plate and screws (ready-assembled to bolt on) eBay £435
MYP gearbox from Passat with 52 miles £340
LUK release bearing, arm and spring eBay £32
Front oil seal / clutch bearing sleeve eBay £15
Comma fully synthetic MVMTF Plus 75W gear oil Halfords £22
TOTAL £844
Obviously if I had not “needed” a new DMF then it would have been less than half the price. I think I was quite lucky to get the gearbox for that price, especially considering it came nicely shrink-wrapped and tied securely onto a custom made pallet.
Problem areas / still to do.
Notwithstanding the stretch-bolt availability debacle, the starter isn’t making a happy noise. I’m almost certain I remember torquing up both bolts properly. I am wondering if it is just the sharp burrs on the new flywheel ring gear teeth need to be worn off by the starter pinion, but you don’t get this noise from a brand new car… once I re-check the gear oil level on the flat later (I filled it with the car on the axle stands) I’m going to run it up the ramps and check the starter out before re-fitting the undertray.
I’m not certain that gear selection is quite as it should be. When I got the car the gear selection was fairly heavy and it has lightened up with regular use. I feel I need to go on a long run and get the gearbox fully hot before I’m happy that it’s OK.
I’ll be telling my insurance company as this is a non-standard mod.
Need to sort the gearstick emblem – I bought a cheap one but have misplaced it.
Thats a great write up, ive been following your progress with this and found your photos and bracket info will be a great help to others doing this conversion. id like to show my interested in your old gearbox for my tdi project as the GRJ has a larger bellhousing and may come in handy if my new uprated sachs clutch cant handle the horses my new turbo will be kicking out.. then i will need to look into a larger flywheel and clutch assembly.
Regards Gary
Just thought id add the starter gear cog has tappered edges so may not be the problem , common problem with starter motors is they become dry inside and need stripping down , cleaning and relubing , theres several posts on how to do this on the forum
Regards Gary
Just thought id add the starter gear cog has tappered edges so may not be the problem , common problem with starter motors is they become dry inside and need stripping down , cleaning and relubing , theres several posts on how to do this on the forum
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BiggDogg
A2OC Donor
Thanks Gary for this. The starter lube job is one I did last year, and it worked, but this is a different noise during cranking rather than after. The noise is still there, but does seem to be normalising a little so maybe the theory on sharp new ring-gear teeth is correct. I will change the fuel fillter soon so the starter and ring-gear will get a nice workout then.
Do PM me if you decide on the gearbox.
I've driven a few hundred miles now - the MYP 6-speed gearbox is fine and dandy - very pleased with it. I've also added a new emblem to the gearknob having gently levered out the black badge and worn metallised plastic surround. It is a cheap £3 one meant for a VW T5 Transporter and is 37mm diameter. Shock, horror, I have Superglued it to the top of the gearstick leather, but I think this is just as good an attachment method as Audi's original selection of double sided tape. I quite like it, see pic.
Matt
Do PM me if you decide on the gearbox.
I've driven a few hundred miles now - the MYP 6-speed gearbox is fine and dandy - very pleased with it. I've also added a new emblem to the gearknob having gently levered out the black badge and worn metallised plastic surround. It is a cheap £3 one meant for a VW T5 Transporter and is 37mm diameter. Shock, horror, I have Superglued it to the top of the gearstick leather, but I think this is just as good an attachment method as Audi's original selection of double sided tape. I quite like it, see pic.
Matt
BiggDogg
A2OC Donor
Thanks. Ah, yes I've re-used the existing starter from my "90". Have I missed a trick here? I thought I'd read everything on the subject of the conversion. With starter pinion positioning relative to the ring gear I guess it has to be in the right place radially and longitudinally. Is one of these wrong, which is why it's sounding unhappy during cranking?
Matt
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sco
A2OC Donor
I finished the MYP gearbox conversion and DMF replacement yesterday evening.
The gearbox mounting console bolts (multi-spline x3 and hex-head x2) as well as the centre pendulum bolt are all stretch bolts so should not be re-used. None were in stock at Audi, only the pendulum was available in 2 days and the other 2 types were on back order from Germany. Since these all have to come out for the relatively common task of changing the clutch I assume that nobody in the UK uses the new Audi bolts, or else re-uses the old ones. Given the choice of waiting 2 weeks or re-use the old ones with Loctite you can guess which way I went. I just re-torqued with the torque-wrench, leaving off the angle so as not to re-stretch and risk breakage. I also noticed that the wishbone bolts are stretch bolts, those have received the same treatment after cleaning the threads with a wire brush. I'm not 100% confident about this but my mates seem to think it's OK. Someone mentioned BMW or Mercedes give a max. permitted length for a stretch bolt for re-use but it seems not Audi.
Problem areas / still to do.
Notwithstanding the stretch-bolt availability debacle, the starter isn’t making a happy noise. I’m almost certain I remember torquing up both bolts properly. I am wondering if it is just the sharp burrs on the new flywheel ring gear teeth need to be worn off by the starter pinion, but you don’t get this noise from a brand new car… once I re-check the gear oil level on the flat later (I filled it with the car on the axle stands) I’m going to run it up the ramps and check the starter out before re-fitting the undertray.
I’m not certain that gear selection is quite as it should be. When I got the car the gear selection was fairly heavy and it has lightened up with regular use. I feel I need to go on a long run and get the gearbox fully hot before I’m happy that it’s OK.
I’ll be telling my insurance company as this is a non-standard mod.
Need to sort the gearstick emblem – I bought a cheap one but have misplaced it.
Just a quick point - a torque plus angle specification doesn't automatically mean a stretch bolt. Torque plus angle is a more accurate way of getting a reliable preload - if you have just done the torque and not the angle then you will not have achieved the designed preload which is more dangerous than re-using a stretch bolt.
If you want to learn about bolts this website is excellent: http://www.boltscience.com/pages/basics1.htm
Simon.
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Bala_de_plata
Member
The MYP in my A2 1.4TDI BHC was replaced with a PTW gearbox from a Golf VII 1.6TDI BlueMotion. Besides, a Quaife QDF26R limited-slip diff was installed as well. Looking forward to driving my car
https://youtu.be/DUDtFdnn9oQ
https://youtu.be/DUDtFdnn9oQ
Bala_de_plata
Member
Pinkythelabrat
A2OC Donor
Hello all,
It seems this mod has been popular. Perhaps a few gearboxes are wearing out and refurbishment is incredibly expensive.
I'm in Glasgow and think this sounds a good option for when my ailing box bites it. Raymor - I've PM'd you.
Is there any feedback from early TDI 75 users who have been living with it for a while? How's it going? Any longer term user reviews not w that things have had a chance to settle?
It seems this mod has been popular. Perhaps a few gearboxes are wearing out and refurbishment is incredibly expensive.
I'm in Glasgow and think this sounds a good option for when my ailing box bites it. Raymor - I've PM'd you.
Is there any feedback from early TDI 75 users who have been living with it for a while? How's it going? Any longer term user reviews not w that things have had a chance to settle?
Pinkythelabrat
A2OC Donor
It looks like the MYP was also used in the Skoda superb 2010-2015 - a 1.6 diesel with 105hp. I wonder if the 2.0 TDI gearbox would be the same size/figment for those with higher hp - would a manufacturer normally change the fitment pattern for larger engines?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bala_de_plata
Member
Bigger engines are coupled with MQ350, that have three shafts instead of two (MQ250 like MYP). Retrofitting might be possible, but it is complicated. The MQ350-6 is heavier than the MQ250-6.
IMHO, a PTW gearbox from A3 1.6TDI Ultra or Golf VII BM 1.6TDI ist even better than an MYP from a Passat. The only problem is that it is a rare thing
IMHO, a PTW gearbox from A3 1.6TDI Ultra or Golf VII BM 1.6TDI ist even better than an MYP from a Passat. The only problem is that it is a rare thing