Silenced!

hotstuff

A2OC Donor
For some time now I have been keen to do some work to humpy's exhaust. I have read pretty much what has been posted on this forum regarding the removal of the catalytic converter and playing with the silencer and the piping. There have infact been a few members that have reported a negative effect as a result of a de-cat and exhaust re-work on a 75HP TDi. There are also comments that Stealth Racing have determined that the 90's exhaust is more customisable than the 75's due to the latter's "requirement" for some "back pressure" to operate more effeciently.

This line of thought has never sat comfortably with me - in all my years in the motor trade, my current profession and my logic tells me that an un-restricted exhaust should have benefits if done correctly. I have long toyed with the idea of "modding" the exhaust, and last week I did just that. Humpy's exhaust has been removed in total and been replaced with a straight through system. Two "silencers" are utilised, one in the center tunnel and one next to the composite well in the rear. Where the original system used 50mm diameter piping, the new system is made from 63mm and is stainless steel in construction and is laid much "straighter".

A quick explanation of how the exhaust system works should help to explain why there should be an improvement in performance. In an normally aspirated (non turbo) engine, the exhaust gasses travel down the exhaust in a series of pulses as the pistons goes through the exhaust strokes. These pulses happen so fast that the gasses flow - but - they are still pulses. As the pulses travel through the system, they create an area of low pressure behind them. This has the effect of "drawing" the next pulse along, thus allowing the gasses to "flow" and exit the system. Engine manufacturers "tune" the exhaust system to maximise this "drawing" of gasses which is called scavenging. It can best be described as "slipstreaming or draghting". When this scavenging effect is slowed down - be it from a catalyst, blocked pipes/silencer, or other restriction, the "flow" is slowed and is referred to as back pressure.

The difference with a turbo charged engine is that the exhaust pulses are used to spin-up the turbo turbine (exhaust impeller) and exit the turbo into the exhaust system in more of a stream rather than a pulsed flow - the scavenging is therefor dramatically reduced. The faster the gasses can spin the turbine, the faster the turbo compressor (inlet impeller) can draw and compress the inlet charge, the better the performance. The more the restriction, the less efficient the process.

Given the above, I question how almost identical engines can yield positive results in one application and negative in another, ie 75 vs 90.

So, what's the proof?

I had humpy dyno'ed some months back prior to having any work done on the exhaust, The figures recorded at the time were;

105.6HP and 75.6HP at the wheels

Today, humpy was dyno'ed again following the exhaust re-work;

112.3HP and 82.0HP at the wheels

That's an incease of around 6.5HP, and torque is up by just over 10Nm delivered around 50 rpm lower.

In addition, the curves are so much smoother and the engine "holds" its power for longer at the higher revs. I can confidently say that the car drives sooo much better, it's smoother, takes up quicker and is such FUN! Oh, and the turbo sounds great.

There is a slight down side however - the exhaust note is much louder. It makes a lovely burble and is superlative at low/medium revs and whilst cruising - but - plant it and wow - its really tells you what its doing! I'm getting used to the louder exhaust and I'm sure the extensive soundproofing that I put down in the car helps quite alot. I will do a little more soundproofing though, or may end up putting in another box.

I'll post some pics over the week-end, but to all those who have suggested that a 75HP TDi cannot have the exhaust modded to give better power or have advised not removing the cat for similar reasons - look at the title of the thread.

blue skies

tony
 
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Sounds all good Tony i look forward to seeing and hearing it. I have one question though--was the same dyno used and comparable weather as these two factors can have significant impact to data. But i guess your seat of the pants dyno says its better. I think you should start building these pipes as a queue is forming lol see you soon mike
 
The tdi90 has variable vanes on the turbo which may explain the difference. My knowledge of fluid dynamics is limited but my understanding is that 'back pressure' is a common misused term to describe the effect of a narrower exhaust pipe. For the same amount of fluid/gas flow rate, the narrower pipe will be higher speed with the implication of it on the exit flow from the exhaust valves/manifold. You'd want decent speed of gas flow at least in the lower end of the rev range to have good torque and less of the restriction on higher rev (do diesel engines rev much? ;) ). So ideally you want a variable exhaust that is matched to the revs (which dictates the amount of gas flow).
 
Tony, I'm glad you did a proper before and after test with only one variable - I'm with you, it's never sat easily that reducing back-pressure on the 75 would result in a negative impact on performance!

I also guess this means that Humpy is now properly back on the road with all its innards restored? Time to celebrate!
 
Hi Toni

Have you De-Cated it as well then? If so Im assuming it wont have any MOT implications.

Did you make teh pipes youself or get someone local to fabricate it.

I would be game on getting one on mine :)

John
 
I have one question though--was the same dyno used and comparable weather as these two factors can have significant impact to data. But i guess your seat of the pants dyno says its better.

Mike, the runs were done some months apart. The 1st was in April, but the car has been off the road for a few months with all the other upgrade work I was busy with. I used the same people we used for our colloge motor sport programmes and they are very reliable and knowledgable. I am quite comfortable that the reuslts are accurate - in fact the first thing that the techician said to me after the 1st run was "what have you done to it?". In reality, I was expecting around 2 -3 HP increase but getting over 6 is a very nice surprise :D.

You'd want decent speed of gas flow at least in the lower end of the rev range to have good torque and less of the restriction on higher rev (do diesel engines rev much? ;) ). So ideally you want a variable exhaust that is matched to the revs (which dictates the amount of gas flow).

Correct Humps. Manufacturers try to get this variable as close as thay can but costs and easy/standardised production methods leave lots to be desired and it is an acknowleged fact that there is improvement in performance to be found with a well designed exhaust system. Top end manufacturers do fit variable inlet and outlet tracts to their engines with sophisticted electronics to constantly vary the rates of flow to provide the best of both worlds - good low end torque and high top end power.

Have you De-Cated it as well then? If so Im assuming it wont have any MOT implications.

John, the car went for it's MOT the day before the exhaust upgrade. I did speak to the technician specifically about the CAT and he indicated that on diesels they do not make a physical inspection for the CAT, nor test for emissions. All they do is analyse for the amount of smoke measured against a temperature matrix. My car indicated 0.6 out of a maximum of 3.0 allowable. Well within spec and the CAT would have no effect on this figure at all. This holds true for latest gen cars too, although he said that almost all record a value of 0. As things stand at the moment, you could remove a CAT without concerns come MOT time - things can change however. When the new exhaust was fitted, I ensured there is enough space before the 1st box to allow fittment of a CAT if necessary.

blue skies

tony
 
Some picies.

the business end.JPGturbo with down pipe.JPGturbo with flexi.JPGinto the tunnel.JPG

1: The business end - turbo with old exhaust removed.
2: Turbo with new flexi-pipe fitted.
3: Looking into the flexi on the down pipe.
4: Into the tunnel it goes.

blue skies
tony
 
More picies.

looking back.JPGmiddle box.JPGaround the tank.JPGover the axle.JPGrear box.JPG

1: The centre box looking backwards.
2: The centre box again.
3: Work of art - around the fuel tank and ...
4: ... over the rear axle.
5: The rear box - just a little tease ;).

go compare.JPG

The difference!


blue skies
tony
 
Fantastic job Tony. A really nice fit and finish resulting in good looks and good performance. How is production going? Another service for Hotstuff auto services. See you soon mike
 
I visited Tony on Wednesday evening and had the pleasure of driving Humpy around. Before I make any comment on the exhaust, I must say what an incredible A2 Tony now has. Everything Tony has done has been done to perfection and with astonishing attention to detail. The only thing that Humpy lacks is OpenSky, and I'm sure Tony will conquer that, too. Otherwise, Humpy is absolutely dripping with spec, including simple but beautiful things like a genuine pop-out 12V socket in the boot, interior boot lights on both sides, etc. Humpy may have been off the road for months and been taken to bits in a big way, but now that he's back together again, you can really see why Tony chose to go about things the way he did.

The new exhaust is certainly louder than the standard kit, but not by much. It has a deep growl, but we're a long way from Saxo territory.
The torque definitely feels like it starts lower down the rev range. There's much less turbo lag, meaning that the accelerator has a much more immediate effect. Its delivery is also smooth and continues right up the rev range.

Driving a TDI75 that chucks out 112bhp and just has an urge to go is a lot of fun!

Tom

PS: Excellent photos, Tony. :)
 
Fantastic job Tony. A really nice fit and finish resulting in good looks and good performance. How is production going? Another service for Hotstuff auto services. See you soon mike

Hi Mike

Although Iv'e been up for a few hours and fully awake, i'm wondering if you're pulling my leg?
Great to see you have such faith in me and as much as I'd like to take credit for it, the exhaust work is not my handywork - I hope my description did not mislead anyone.
The work was done by Jeff & Rob at Piewerx. They were refered to me by a colleague who has work done by them for his racing bikes. As it turns out, Pipewerx also did Malcolm's car - the converted A2 with the 1.8 turbo motor.
I spoke with them (and other outfits) extensively before the job and they said the right things so they got the job.
As has been mentioned, the workmanship and end result is really top notch and the service is fantastic - the entire process was discussed as we went along and they consulted with me in all aspects.
The car is booked in there again next Sat to add another box where the original silencer goes - I'm looking for slightly less noise on full throttle.

Now, i'm off to mod & fit an ***-E.

blue skies

tony
 
oh sorry i had read it that you had done it --ooops.

"The work was done by Jeff & Rob at Piewerx." hmmm piewerx that sound like my sort of company--ha ha
It still looks great and looks like i will be giving them a call.
 
Hi Tony,

Since you fitted the new exhaust do you feel the fuel consumption has gone up or down - doing your best to allow for the extra performance you now have. Apparently the flexi section of mine has started to blow so I need to think about options.

Cheers,

Mark
 
Interested in this? I might be ..... So. here's a bit of information for you :- The Firm : Pipe Werx, Ormskirk. Tel no. 01704 89778. Contact "Jeff". Quote : 3-box system, 2 1/2" diameter, including down-pipe, £565, fully fitted. Sounds good to me! Just how much is the standard Audi system, including the down-pipe, please? Oh, this is a De-catted system with the 3rd. box there to give some silencing! He thinks that 2 1/4" is more than adequate, and a 2-box would be O.K. Price would then be a bit lower .....

David
 
Resurrecting this thread.

Have Just had my exhaust done, similar to Tony, however I opted for a 2" system. I have one centre tunnel box and then a small box on the tail pipe.

I must say, the car drives a LOT better than before. Plant your foot and before you know it your needle is all the way round the rev counter. Pickup is better and so is the acceleration.

The noise at idle is a more deeper fuller sound than standard, but not too loud, but it is more noticeable in the car. Basically background noise.

I had mine done by a chap called Graham who has a company called Exhaust by design, just outside Buckingham.

Performance has definitely improved, so I think that quashes the old "A2's need back pressure myth". :cool:
 
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