The Misfire Struggle (1.6 FSI - BAD)

Thanks man! Appreciate it!

It is so frustrating to know that I’m almost there and that those small tiny parts (o’rings) can cause such a hassle.

Anyway I just got back from the Audi dealership and bought 4 new OEM Insert O’Rings. The part number has changed since 2016 and they are gray now (OEM WHT 005 422 B). If those snap too then I’m definetely doing something wrong here.

I have to go to work soon so I’ll leave it maybe for tonight or tomorrow.

I’ll keep you updated regardless the outcome.
I’ve forgot all about these !!!!

Thanks for reminding me bud :)

Rang Audi and there £7.50 each and I need 4

Expensive for abit of rubber?

At least I won’t have to take my intake manifold off twice now because of not replacing rubber seals
 
I’ve forgot all about these !!!!

Thanks for reminding me bud :)

Rang Audi and there £7.50 each and I need 4

Expensive for abit of rubber?

At least I won’t have to take my intake manifold off twice now because of not replacing rubber seals

You’re welcome! I paid mine around 5€/piece.

Right now I’m on placebo effect, hoping the price justifies the quality and that they’ll hold like they are supposed to.

Fingers crossed :)
 
Hi, welcome.

I take my ? off to you sir, the quantity of effort in one week is awe inspiring. Thank you for the quality of your posts, like reading a good novel and will the hero win in the end, I am sure you will.

There does sound something wrong with the brass inserts seals, @BiggDogg or @Sarge would be good members to comment.

Andy
 
Hi xhuli welcome along, it's great to see another and very dedicated fsi owner. :)

I too take my hat of to you for showing us the pics and writing a superb very well documented write up, really excellent work!
It was a shame to see your having serious problems with Topran injector seals. I'v had this work done on mine last year and because the work is of the nature where you only want to go in there once, if you can help it, i just bit my tongue and bought the Audi seals. They might seam expensive, but they work.

Your almost there i feel, keep the quality of the parts up and i'm sure your be grinning form ear to ear soon.
All the best and thanks again for this thread!! ???
 
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Thanks @Andrew and @Vorsprung durch Technik for your moral support, I really do appreciate it and could use some of your support right now :).

So, tonight I was planning to assemble everything back with the new O'rings/Insert Seals from Audi but as I want to get all the odds on my side I will order also the Brass Inserts (OEM 036 133 235). Why you must say. Well, when I first got the lower manifold out I took those Brass Inserts off to clean them but I put some small dents in the rounded edges (nothing serious but at this point everything could be amplified in my paranoia state right now). I also gave them a thorough polish with the Autosol Metal Polish. Now I don't know if this has anything to do with the o'rings snapping but as I said before, I want all the odds in my favor.

Tomorrow I'll go again at the Audi dealership to order 4 Brass Inserts.
 
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Thanks @Andrew and @Vorsprung durch Technik for your moral support, I really do appreciate it and could use some of your support right now :).

So, tonight I was planning to assemble everything back with the new O'rings/Insert Seals from Audi but as I want to get all the odds in my side I will order too the Brass Inserts (OEM 036 133 235). Why you must say. Well, when I first got the lower manifold disassembled I took those Brass Inserts off to clean them but I put some small dents in the rounded edges (nothing serious but at this point everything could be amplified). I also gave them a thorough polish with the Autosol Metal Polish. Now I don't know if this has anything to do with the o'rings snapping but as I said before, I want to all the odds in my favor.

Tomorrow I'll go again at the Audi dealership to order 4 Brass Inserts.

No problem at all it's a pleasure. I can't say an i'm an expert as i haven't, yet anyway, delved into an fsi engine bay for some major surgery hence really liking this thread and the lengths you've gone to in explaining what you've done. We might know about the usual pitfalls on these cars but having actually hands on is a bonus.

Some encouragement you asked for - imo an inspired choice going for the iridium Denso plugs, ive got them in mine. It was gratifying to here you say that along with the new Bosch coils the engine was puuuuurring. I suspect once you get the new brass inserts and fit the new O rings correctly, taking your time to carefully installin the manifold etc you'll have it covered and be able to move onto the next stage of enjoying the car. Even if there is a minor set back of some sort, it's worth going the extra mile just so you can experience a fully sorted fsi.

Just one question - have you cleaned the backs of the cylinder head valves of carbon build up if there was any?
 
Yes I have indeed cleaned them. Maybe I forgot to explain it thoroughly before but yes, it was the first big thing I did in fact. I was afraid tackling this at first but I managed to clean them as best as I could. I got at least 10 to 15 different types of brushes (nylon and brass material brushes mostly) mixed with some Brake Cleaner, EGR Cleaner and Injector Cleaner directly sprayed on the back of the Intake Valves. When doing this, I made sure the Intake Valves were on closed position by turning the Crankshaft clockwise by hand (24 or 26 mm 12 pointed head socket). It was a messy job I must say but I got the most filthy junk out. I blocked all the Intake and Injector ports as I was cleaning one after the other. Cylinder 3 was the dirtiest, the others were dirty but not that horrible as you see on some YouTube videos.

It wasn't an easy task getting access to the Valves because :
- 1st : they're located on the back of the engine (some gymnastic is required there lol unless you remove the engine)
- 2nd : there is a fixed flap on the engine block side which makes the access smaller. So the tools you insert in there must be really thin and hard but flexible at the same time.

On the later generation FSI engines, those fixed flaps can be removed out of their position and it makes it easier to clean the Valves.

Tool used : Dremel, Drill, Vacuum Cleaner, Air Pressure (not the pneumatic compressor ones)

The last 2 pictures were taken after cleaning. Not the most beautiful work but it was enough for me as I spent quite a lot of time on these.

For the Iridium Plugs, yes they really made a big difference in the engine smoothness. I paid like 60€ for the pack of 4. When I was researching for the misfiring issue, I fell across the Iridium Plugs topic somewhere on the Internet and I thought they could only improve the quality of the combustion, right? And they did so I recommend it. The head is a bit shorter though than the BOSCH ones, like 3 to 5 mm I think and at first I thought it could lead to a combustion problem but not at all. I mean for the small amount I have enjoyed the car when it operated like it should they felt like a big improvement on the car.
 

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I did wonder how you cleaned the valves and was the reason i put the question. I've not heard of anyone doing it that way, usually a head removal job, but agree if you close of the valves, via rotating crank, and close of the other ports one at a time it's certainly possible. I bet your back muscles hurt after that lot, either that or your young. ?

Either way, another doff of the hat from me for sheer guts and ( ocd - ness ) and thoroughness involved here!!

I think with your good brain and clear experience of how things work you're going to get this whipped into shape before long! ?
 
Hello,
I have been admiring the progress done by you in the overhauling of, ehm, almost everything in your FSI engine. As a fellow FSI owner who has already changed most parts in my own 2002 FSI (affectionately known in my household as TMP, or The Money Pit?) I admire the thoroughness of your job and the determination in going to the roots of the problem. FSIs can be tricky if maintenance in the past has not been good
I have not the time nor the skills to do the jobs myself but I trust my garage (they restored all my classic cars from a 1949 MM to a 2005 XJR) and they did almost the same work as you did, changing injectors, vacuum actuator, throttle body, sensors et al. To be honest I picked up a lemon as this FSI looked good but it was actually a mess! Now the FSI works passably well but it still feels a bit rough so I'm ordering the Denso plugs, as you did feel an improvement with these, and see what happens. The pump was already checked by a specialist and declared OK but mine is a 80,000 miles car so I expected it to be good.
Well, it has been a long rocky trip but you know what? The FSI feels good. I own also a 2000 Porsche Carrera 4 (996) and there is something of that engine, with its VarioRam action, in the FSI behaviour (though I must say that the FSI has been more expensive for me until now ? ).
I think that we all love our A2s (our household has three of them) and that all of us think that A2s are instant classics, but while the survival of the TDI is endangered by 'green' laws and limitations, and the 1.4 are a bit slow and also a bit 'normal' (delightful to drive, though, my wife LOVES her 1.4) the FSI will enjoy a higher status in the future and thus become a true collectable. Plus it's a hoot to drive.
Congratulations again for your splendid job! Can't wait to receive the Denso plugs to see how my FSI changes.
All the best to this splendid Club and Forum,
Stefano
 
Hello,
I have been admiring the progress done by you in the overhauling of, ehm, almost everything in your FSI engine. As a fellow FSI owner who has already changed most parts in my own 2002 FSI (affectionately known in my household as TMP, or The Money Pit?) I admire the thoroughness of your job and the determination in going to the roots of the problem. FSIs can be tricky if maintenance in the past has not been good
I have not the time nor the skills to do the jobs myself but I trust my garage (they restored all my classic cars from a 1949 MM to a 2005 XJR) and they did almost the same work as you did, changing injectors, vacuum actuator, throttle body, sensors et al. To be honest I picked up a lemon as this FSI looked good but it was actually a mess! Now the FSI works passably well but it still feels a bit rough so I'm ordering the Denso plugs, as you did feel an improvement with these, and see what happens. The pump was already checked by a specialist and declared OK but mine is a 80,000 miles car so I expected it to be good.
Well, it has been a long rocky trip but you know what? The FSI feels good. I own also a 2000 Porsche Carrera 4 (996) and there is something of that engine, with its VarioRam action, in the FSI behaviour (though I must say that the FSI has been more expensive for me until now ? ).
I think that we all love our A2s (our household has three of them) and that all of us think that A2s are instant classics, but while the survival of the TDI is endangered by 'green' laws and limitations, and the 1.4 are a bit slow and also a bit 'normal' (delightful to drive, though, my wife LOVES her 1.4) the FSI will enjoy a higher status in the future and thus become a true collectable. Plus it's a hoot to drive.
Congratulations again for your splendid job! Can't wait to receive the Denso plugs to see how my FSI changes.
All the best to this splendid Club and Forum,
Stefano

Hi StefanoP, nice comments there bud, i have to ask as your username looks familiar, are you also on the S2 Forum?
 
I did wonder how you cleaned the valves and was the reason i put the question. I've not heard of anyone doing it that way, usually a head removal job, but agree if you close of the valves, via rotating crank, and close of the other ports one at a time it's certainly possible. I bet your back muscles hurt after that lot, either that or your young. ?

Either way, another doff of the hat from me for sheer guts and ( ocd - ness ) and thoroughness involved here!!

I think with your good brain and clear experience of how things work you're going to get this whipped into shape before long! ?

I know it’s not the proper way to do this kind of operation but, knowing my self, if I had gone for the cylinder head removal I would have gone overkill on replacing, resurfacing, cleaning the engine and it would have cost me a lot of time and money. Time wasn’t in my side since the beginning that’s why I did’t chose to take that road. If it was like a project car type of thing, hell yeah I would have done it.
 
I know it’s not the proper way to do this kind of operation but, knowing my self, if I had gone for the cylinder head removal I would have gone overkill on replacing, resurfacing, cleaning the engine and it would have cost me a lot of time and money. Time wasn’t in my side since the beginning that’s why I did’t chose to take that road. If it was like a project car type of thing, hell yeah I would have done it.

Understood completely, it was just an observation, a clever idea of yours for sure! ? ?
 
Aha! Thought I recognised the name - how’s the 409?
Hello Philip,
the 409 is going well thank you :)...she has been sheltered in her heated garage for a few months now but in the next weeks she'll get a new custom-made exhaust system for her V8.
BTW, I did write some thoughts about the similarities between A2s and Bristols, especially the early models, aka 'Aerodynes':
Sorry for the imperfect English but I just did like to share some thoughts about these cars, as I love them both for similar reasons. And I think that this affinity is even more remarkable when you take the 1.6 FSI as the 'definitive' A2.
Have a nice day,

Stefano
 
Ok guys, I think I may have found the culprit and I also think I have made a big dumb mistake when putting the parts back together (to be confirmed later this afternoon).

My big brother, which is of a huge help on this repair struggle alongside my other little brother, just retrieved the parts I order from my local Audi dealership. He sent me a picture of the parts and after seeing the picture, it hit me.

When seeing the picture, I saw that those Brass Inserts came already with the o’ring installed on them but when zooming in, it had also an o’ring retainer like the Injector’s seal kit. It was then I realized that I might have forgotten to install them in the first place. I have kept the old Brass Inserts and Injectors o’rings and retainers so I’ll be checking those later. But how stupid of me, shaking my head right now.

I’ll be home in two hours and if I find out that I have 8 (4 for the Injectors and 4 for the Brass Inserts) in total of those old plastic o’ring retainers then I’ll have confirmation of my mistake. When I’ll be home, I hope to find 8 of those now, just to have my mind at peace that the problem lied indeed in that area.

The thing is, and if I’m not mistaken, I can’t remember seeing these retainers on the diagrams hence why I might have forgotten to put these when looking for answers. But huge mistake anyway on part if that’s the case.

Good thing I’ve ordered the Brass Inserts because I might never have raised the suspicion of me not putting back the o’ring retainers.

I’ll be reassembling the engine back together in the next few hours so my next post will be either a successful report or another consternation/fail.

See you later guys! Wish me luck :)!
 

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Well well well...after putting everything back together again and driving since two hours now I must say the operation was a success. I got the smile back in my face again guys. I don’t know for how long but in the days to come I’ll be monitoring the car closely and keep you updated.

I still have some issues though but nothing compared to the nightmare I’ve been living these last weeks. I’ll make a detailed post later. But right now so far so good and I hope it’ll stay that way.

Ps : And yes the Brass Inserts had also an o’ring retainer shown in the first picture which, in the rush of things I guess, I had completely forgotten to put them back thus causing the o’oring to not be properly seated and seal.
 

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Well well well...after putting everything back together again and driving since two hours now I must say the operation was a success. I got the smile back in my face again guys. I don’t know for how long but in the days to come I’ll be monitoring the car closely and keep you updated.

I still have some issues though but nothing compared to the nightmare I’ve been living these last weeks. I’ll make a detailed post later. But right now so far so good and I hope it’ll stay that way.

Ps : And yes the Brass Inserts had also an o’ring retainer shown in the first picture which, in the rush of things I guess, I had completely forgotten to put them back thus causing the o’oring to not be properly seated and seal.

Woohoo success :)
 
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