Changes to MoT from 1st January 2012
- Thread starter Will
- Start date
dan_b
A2OC Donor
I'd like to see how they're going to test "Airbag obviously not operative"? Are they proposing to crash your car to see if it goes off?!
I'd also like to know how they can determine if an ECU has been "illegally" remapped. Most dealer ECU diagnostic equipement can't tell if the ECU has been changed, so how's this going to work?
How are they going to measure intensity and colour of light output?
Are they going to check the car's OE specification as built to see if it was manufactured with HIDs of a certain colour temperature and output, then check what bulbs are fitted and if the washers/levelling system works?
I'd also like to know how they can determine if an ECU has been "illegally" remapped. Most dealer ECU diagnostic equipement can't tell if the ECU has been changed, so how's this going to work?
How are they going to measure intensity and colour of light output?
Are they going to check the car's OE specification as built to see if it was manufactured with HIDs of a certain colour temperature and output, then check what bulbs are fitted and if the washers/levelling system works?
Automatic
Member
this bit "SRS MIL indicates any kind of failure of the system" is a joke, my old Aclass flagged that up and it related to a busted connection on a child seat sensor detection device fitted in the passenger footwell. Only the connection was fine and the fault was somewhere within the loom or the sensor in the seat, yet the car sailed through MOT's with the srs light. Howevedr it would have cost a freakin forutune to have had that sorted properly, and it was very common fault !!
Lee S
Member
How can they check for this? Are they going to have interfaces and EEPROM lists for every variant of every model of every make ??
For those wishing to read the source EU document
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2010:173:0047:0072:EN:PDF
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2010:173:0047:0072:EN:PDF
bretti_kivi
Member
seems like a medium-strict check that emissions standards are being adhered to and it's mainly about soot.
A couple of things which this will turn into MoT failures:
- retrofit HIDs
- paint on lightbulbs
- LEDs in rear lights
- HIDs without levelling / headlamp washers
Why? Because the statement on "light source and lamp not compatible" will include the e-marking and the source with which the marking was achieved. In other words, harmonisation across the EU. The "where mandatory" is another belt & braces thing and it means that theoretically the police could stop and impound if they so desired. The HID ruling in the UK is "in the opinion of the DfT" which stinks, this will force their hand.
With a bit of luck, this might also harmonise so I don't have to go every damned year to the TÜV as I do now, though they'll also probably want to check over my tyres a bit more carefully (yeah, right).
I don't see this as a surprise, it's overdue.
Bret
A couple of things which this will turn into MoT failures:
- retrofit HIDs
- paint on lightbulbs
- LEDs in rear lights
- HIDs without levelling / headlamp washers
Why? Because the statement on "light source and lamp not compatible" will include the e-marking and the source with which the marking was achieved. In other words, harmonisation across the EU. The "where mandatory" is another belt & braces thing and it means that theoretically the police could stop and impound if they so desired. The HID ruling in the UK is "in the opinion of the DfT" which stinks, this will force their hand.
With a bit of luck, this might also harmonise so I don't have to go every damned year to the TÜV as I do now, though they'll also probably want to check over my tyres a bit more carefully (yeah, right).
I don't see this as a surprise, it's overdue.
Bret
MPG Lover
Member
This is simply more regulations from the EC. You may not know, but nowadays the majority of 'new' laws in the UK follow new EC regulations or directives.
A common sense approach would have been taken by DfT in the past (does the car have headlights, are they pointing in the right direction) but this approach appears to have been removed by the EC and is probably bad news for those with retro-fitted HIDs.
On the engine modifications, I suspect that MoT testers will only be looking for physical modifications - such as those plug-in 'resistor' boxes; the MoT testers will never have the kit to be able to tell if an ECU has been re-programmed.
If an airbag is missing or in-operative it will be because it has already been 'fired' and not replaced; even I have seen people driving around with split plastic in the centre of their steering wheel in the past. Hope this helps.
A common sense approach would have been taken by DfT in the past (does the car have headlights, are they pointing in the right direction) but this approach appears to have been removed by the EC and is probably bad news for those with retro-fitted HIDs.
On the engine modifications, I suspect that MoT testers will only be looking for physical modifications - such as those plug-in 'resistor' boxes; the MoT testers will never have the kit to be able to tell if an ECU has been re-programmed.
If an airbag is missing or in-operative it will be because it has already been 'fired' and not replaced; even I have seen people driving around with split plastic in the centre of their steering wheel in the past. Hope this helps.
Design-Time
A2OC Donor
My take!
6.1.9 Engine performance:
(a) Control unit illegal modified.
Maybe this means modified to such an extent thats it makes the car for off road use only.
(b) Illegal engine modification.
Maybe this means modifications that are not suitable for road use.
My personal view is, basic remapping will be OK. Remapping on A2's is an improvement and make it what it should of been from the factory!
I think this might be something for new cars only.
Can you imagine the work involved in accumulating all the data for every car manufactured in say the last ten years alone!
What about all the modified cars all over Europe they would be rendered scrap, un-roadworthy and un-insurable. There would be riots all over the world from every car lover.
Another point is, the MOT time I think it is an average of 45-60mins each car.
These changes will ad more work which equates to less MOT'S per day less profit and more cost to the car owner.
Maybe we should have the same rules as Spain. Like MOT'S every 2 years!
6.1.9 Engine performance:
(a) Control unit illegal modified.
Maybe this means modified to such an extent thats it makes the car for off road use only.
(b) Illegal engine modification.
Maybe this means modifications that are not suitable for road use.
My personal view is, basic remapping will be OK. Remapping on A2's is an improvement and make it what it should of been from the factory!
I think this might be something for new cars only.
Can you imagine the work involved in accumulating all the data for every car manufactured in say the last ten years alone!
What about all the modified cars all over Europe they would be rendered scrap, un-roadworthy and un-insurable. There would be riots all over the world from every car lover.
Another point is, the MOT time I think it is an average of 45-60mins each car.
These changes will ad more work which equates to less MOT'S per day less profit and more cost to the car owner.
Maybe we should have the same rules as Spain. Like MOT'S every 2 years!
bretti_kivi
Member
I think you guys don't get just how lenient the UK rules are in comparison to here or Germany.... the Germans, especially, are very, very anal. To the point that if you want wheels without permits, better get two sets as the TÜV will destroy one in testing. And if you have unpermitted parts you have no insurance.
The polizei will also jump on broken lights.
There's the oldest set of cars in Europe (apart from Greece) here and they're generally in excellent condition. You see broken bulbs, but everything else is normally shipshape and rust is jumped on. MoTs every year here after 5 years (3, 5, 7, 8, 9...); I have my sixth one in the next couple of months. Lights are suspiciously inspected as are brakes and suspension (lots of gravel roads). Still, it's a pretty safe country to drive. Cars are worth money and are therefore looked after, even if they're filthy.
It's all about safety and harmonisation: you've been mollycoddled for a long while....
Bret
The polizei will also jump on broken lights.
There's the oldest set of cars in Europe (apart from Greece) here and they're generally in excellent condition. You see broken bulbs, but everything else is normally shipshape and rust is jumped on. MoTs every year here after 5 years (3, 5, 7, 8, 9...); I have my sixth one in the next couple of months. Lights are suspiciously inspected as are brakes and suspension (lots of gravel roads). Still, it's a pretty safe country to drive. Cars are worth money and are therefore looked after, even if they're filthy.
It's all about safety and harmonisation: you've been mollycoddled for a long while....
Bret
Most A2's are Euro3 emissions certified and later models meet Euro4. While a remap will improve engine performance and driveability I'm sure NOx and particulate levels will no longer be Euro3 or 4 compliant. Its also possible the CO2 levels will exceed the 120g/km threshold for the £30 / year car tax.
While most remapped cars will pass the current very basic MOT emissions check this may not be the case in future
Cheers Spike
The problem i see with this is that, sadly the culture in england is based on the fact that it is their "right" to drive. By making it more expensive to run a car, where insurance for the some (the young in particuler) is already absurdly high, there will be a increase of incidences where cars are driven without insurance, MOTS etc. It's not going to make the roads any safer, at least not in the short term.
iainmd
Member
A bit of a non-truth I think you may have been sold there. Currently, as far as I've read from DfT documents etc., all HID headlamps must have auto-levelling, headlmap washers and be E marked to be legal. Therefore, almost no aftermarket HID headlamps are legal unless the lamp unit was designed as a Xenon HID unit and not a converted Halogen unit.
The fact is, however, that most MOT testers either don't check or don't really care so long as they are correctly aligned and the output is sufficient for a pass.
Some may argue that they are taking a sensible approach but, even though the headlamps on my Volvo are truly rubbish I won't fit HIDs as I will not give any insurance company the joy of finding an excuse not to pay out if I need to claim and I prefer to go with stock parts wherever I can.
Iain
john-wingnut
Active Member
MOT lot only test the level at the moment, my HID's have sailed through twice now.
My insurance didnt really care about them either. I mentioned them and they put them down as 'other' modifications, but no price change.
The insurance guy also told me that the only time I would run into trouble with not declaring HID's, was if they deemed them to be the cause of the accident or incident in question.
So if someone crashed into the back of me ,or I crashed in the daytime, n I have HID's then its no bother.
If say I had a head on smack at night and the HID's were found, then they could use them as an excuse and not pay out and possibly declare me liable
John
My insurance didnt really care about them either. I mentioned them and they put them down as 'other' modifications, but no price change.
The insurance guy also told me that the only time I would run into trouble with not declaring HID's, was if they deemed them to be the cause of the accident or incident in question.
So if someone crashed into the back of me ,or I crashed in the daytime, n I have HID's then its no bother.
If say I had a head on smack at night and the HID's were found, then they could use them as an excuse and not pay out and possibly declare me liable
John