6 speed for petrol

emmett

emmett

A2OC Donor
Is there any information on the forum or within the deepest darkest recesses of someones memory banks (think birchall or spike) on the possibilities of installing either a longer 5th or preferably a six speed conversion for the fsi as I'm finding mine just a little bit "buzzy". It maybe part of the character but it tends to make the longer drive just a little tiresome.
 
Hi Emmett,

To my knowledge, no information has ever been posted about changing or upgrading the FSI's gearbox.

I suspect it's possible to change the gearbox for a VAG 6-speed model (as has been done to Russell's TDI, using the gearbox from a Passat), though, to my knowledge, nobody has yet done any research into this for the FSI. Does anyone know whether the FSI uses an 02T gearbox like the 1.4 petrol? There are 6-speed versions of the 02T gearbox that are identical in their mounting and their operation, but the input and output shafts and the housing are simply a few inches longer to accommodate the extra gear set.
Finding a suitable donor could be difficult. Until Vince found that a specific Passat gearbox was suitable for the A2 TDI, all VAG 6-speed gearboxes that had been studied didn't offer a longer top gear but merely had 6 gears covering the ratio range of the A2's 5 gears. You may run into the same problem.

A further complication of changing the gearbox in a petrol A2 arises due to the engine management software. The management software is forever comparing the relationship between engine revs and road speed and checking that the relationship falls within specified parameters. If you add a longer gear, the revs versus road speed ratio falls outside the specified parameters and the car thinks something is wrong. Whilst the odd warning light can be ignored, cruise control will no longer work. I believe this was discovered when someone tried a longer 5th conversion on a 1.4 petrol.
Luckily for us TDI owners, no such software limitations exist (or the parameters are much more lenient!). However, a VW TDI driver in the US who added the same 6-speed conversion kit as I've got (see http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?21523) ran into the same software problem, meaning he was no longer able to engage cruise control once in 6th gear. He found that a remapper was able to extend the necessary parameters. Someone like Vince at Stealth may be able to do this for the FSI.

I hope this helps,

Tom
 
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timmus said:
Hi Emmett,

To my knowledge, no information has ever been posted about changing or upgrading the FSI's gearbox.

I suspect it's possible to change the gearbox for a VAG 6-speed model (as has been done to Russell's TDI, using the gearbox from a Passat), though, to my knowledge, nobody has yet done any research into this for the FSI. Does anyone know whether the FSI uses an 02T gearbox like the 1.4 petrol? There are 6-speed versions of the 02T gearbox that are identical in their mounting and their operation, but the input and output shafts and the housing are simply a few inches longer to accommodate the extra gear set.
Finding a suitable donor could be difficult. Until Vince found that a specific Passat gearbox was suitable for the A2 TDI, all VAG 6-speed gearboxes that had been studied didn't offer a longer top gear but merely had 6 gears covering the ratio range of the A2's 5 gears. You may run into the same problem.



A further complication of changing the gearbox in a petrol A2 arises due to the engine management software. The management software is forever comparing the relationship between engine revs and road speed and checking that the relationship falls within specified parameters. If you add a longer gear, the revs versus road speed ratio falls outside the specified parameters and the car thinks something is wrong. Whilst the odd warning light can be ignored, cruise control will no longer work. I believe this was discovered when someone tried a longer 5th conversion on a 1.4 petrol.
Luckily for us TDI owners, no such software limitations exist (or the parameters are much more lenient!). However, a VW TDI driver in the US who added the same 6-speed conversion kit as I've got (see http://www.a2oc.net/forum/showthread.php?21523) ran into the same software problem, meaning he was no longer able to engage cruise control once in 6th gear. He found that a remapper was able to extend the necessary parameters. Someone like Vince at Stealth may be able to do this for the FSI.

I hope this helps,

Tom
Click to expand...

Many thanks for such an in depth response, possibly the easiest way to achieve my goal is to get a diesel!!!!!! Regards: stuart.
 
The FSi's ratios are, well 4th gear is basically redundant! Around town I'm in 5th at ~20mph and if I put my foot down I gate shift 3rd to 5th. I doubt that there's a VAG box with the ideal ratios and a 6th gear isn't addressing the issue so for me it wouldn't be worth it... which leads us to the only worthwhile project, transplanting the new 1.4 TFSi. Okay so not feasible but it would make for one hell of a car!
With the i3 and BMW 2 Series Active Tourer I'm still hopeful that Audi will bring out an A2 e-tron true to the original car.
 
Anything is possible, having been in the 'scene' from early to mid nineties until the noughties you realise there are some rather clever chappies out there, one ian birch that produced mk1 golfs with rear mounted 16v golf engines through to lupo's with vr6 lumps in it won't be long before someone realises that something totally unfeasible will fit and work in an A2!!
 
emmett said:
Anything is possible, having been in the 'scene' from early to mid nineties until the noughties you realise there are some rather clever chappies out there, one ian birch that produced mk1 golfs with rear mounted 16v golf engines through to lupo's with vr6 lumps in it won't be long before someone realises that something totally unfeasible will fit and work in an A2!!
Click to expand...
There is a German guy who put a 1.8T engine in his A2. But I guess you mean something even bigger.
 
Here in the uk we have one with the 225bhp tt engine fitted and i believe now it has a trick diff its running 245bhp map. Looks fantastically oem. cheers mike
 
I feel, after more or less 2 months with the A2, that the drive train is the weakest part that revile the true age of the construction. It is not on par with the versatility of the rest of the A2. If I had a sixth gear and 30% more torque at low revs I would be happy.

But I low the car with its imprecisions. :eek:
 
steaman said:
I feel, after more or less 2 months with the A2, that the drive train is the weakest part that revile the true age of the construction. It is not on par with the versatility of the rest of the A2. If I had a sixth gear and 30% more torque at low revs I would be happy.

But I low the car with its imprecisions. :eek:
Click to expand...

I know what you mean about loving the car even though it is not perfect.

But several of us have 6 gears and 30% more power, The gearbox conversion being the costly part of that (not cost effective but a great improvement) .

Steve B
 
I use it mostly around Stockholm, as the City Car it is meant to be, but there will the lack of torque at low revs be the real bottleneck.
 
steaman said:
I use it mostly around Stockholm, as the City Car it is meant to be, but there will the lack of torque at low revs be the real bottleneck.
Click to expand...

Yes, the 1.6 FSI is probably "at home" as a city car when you an keep the revs up, a TDI would obviously have the torque improvement you talk about at low revs. But not everyone likes diesel powered cars.

I think they both have their good points and they are both great cars. I like them both!!

Steve B
 
a2sumo said:
Here in the uk we have one with the 225bhp tt engine fitted and i believe now it has a trick diff its running 245bhp map. Looks fantastically oem. cheers mike
Click to expand...

Has this car ever been magazine featured Mike? Having seen it at ADI i'd love to read a bit more about it.
 
steaman said:
How much torque do you have at 1000 rpm?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that wasn't measured on the power graph, because that is the idle speed (tickover) but it looks like around 80 lb ft
it is 160 lb ft at 2000 rpm
and 178 max lb ft at 2300 rpm dropping off slightly to 3300 rpm
then a steep drop (of course) to 135 at 4,100

Steve B
 
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BHP is

104 at 3,300 rpm dropping only slightly to 97 bhp at 4100 rpm

All figures for what was a 75 BHP

Steve B
 
Not so impressing, but it is a really small engine! I guess a remapping can do some real improvements to that figure, remapping did magic to my Mini Clubman D!
 
steaman said:
Not so impressing, but it is a really small engine! I guess a remapping can do some real improvements to that figure, remapping did magic to my Mini Clubman D!
Click to expand...

They are the remapped figures.

Remember that the power to weight ratio is impressive and as you say it is a small engine.

And even returns 50 mpg around town (even after the remap)

So all in all, I am very impressed with the figures overall, as you say, it is meant to be a town car and yet it performs very well on the road and certainly fast enough for my style of driving and I am used to lb ft figures of over 600 on the road and a bhp of 550.

Steve B
 
steaman said:
remapping did magic to my Mini Clubman D!
Click to expand...

The diesel engine in the Mini is quite amazing.

I had a Volvo V70 DRIVe and that huge and heavy estate car was powered by the Mini 1.6 diesel engine.
It was truly amazing, fully laden (and I mean fully laden, with a flat pack kitchen) the Volvo drove normally and showed no lack of power.
Yet it was still giving me around 50 mpg.

That was unbelievable, but true!!!

Steve B
 
I think that the comparison between the A2 and the Mini is fair and The my tuned Mini have good enough figures, its responsive, flexible and economical. (140hp/320Nm and 20 km per liter) If I could get that in my A2, I would be happy. Not so much to ask for. The Mini has, after all, a PSA engine! :rolleyes:
 
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