Best tyres for A2 1.2 TDI

A

audia23l

Member
My A2 1.2 TDI is currently fitted with Bridgestone Ecopia B381 145/80 x 14 tyres. It will shortly require new tyres. I find the grip on the Ecopia’s a bit scary at times although I don't drive very fast. I am looking for a higher performance tyre with similar rolling resistance if one exists. My current fuel consumption is averaging about 2.7l/100km (105mpg)in summer and 2.9l/100km (95 mpg) in winter (actual figure taking into account a 2% odometer error and actual fuel used, the DIS under reads by up to 5% depending on driving style i.e. it displays 2.6 to 2.7l/100km)

Michelin showed their new Energy Saver Tyre at both the Frankfurt and Paris motor shows with a very impressive display showing it rolling further than a conventional tyre.
It is available in 165/70 x 14 which has virtually the same rolling radius as the 145/80 x 14 fitted as standard. It is a high silca tyre optimised for rolling resistance. I wonder can it match the rolling resistance of the B381 although it is wider. Hopefully technology has improved since the B381 was launched.

Has any one experience of these on an A2 1.2 TDI?

Bluemotion Volkswagens and green Skodas are fitted with Dunlop 165/70 x 14 SP10 low rolling resistance tyres. Has any one tried these?

I don't think the B381 Ecopia is available at the moment so will have to try something else. I have no intention of trying some other budget brand of 145/80 x 14 with unknow rolling resistance or grip so will probably have to fit the Michelins.
 
audia23l said:
Has any one experience of these on an A2 1.2 TDI?
Click to expand...

Yes, you can combine 165/70R14 tyres with the stock 4.5x14 rims of the A2 1.2 without any technical probs. Only the unsprung weight will increase slightly resulting in reduced ride comfort.

As for the best low rolling resistance tyre, the Pirelli P4 Cinturato 165/70 R14 81T or Fulda EcoControl 165/70 R14 85T XL are even better than the Michelin Energy Saver.

http://www.ace-online.de/daten/Reifen-2.pdf

http://www.adac.de/Tests/Reifentest...asp?ComponentID=209161&SourcePageID=8762&TL=2

Several 1.2 drivers over here want to pursue this 165/70 route in future.

I think as long as you don’t drive motorway speeds mainly, the modern low drag tyre technologies equal the economic potential (but relatively unsafe riding characteristics) of the ole 145s...

Safety first
 
Pirelli Cinturato

Thanks Spike I had seen the thread.

Also thank you Schnelletrecker. You are lucky in Germany that so many tyres are tested. Autocar and Autoexpress don't test as many in the UK.

I will try the Pirelli Cinturato's. I have a set of winter wheels so I can get them fitted on these. Winter tyres are not a requirement in Ireland. This will give a good opportunity to compare them with the Ecopia's. It will be interesting to see how the fuel consumption, grip and ride comfort compare.

Regards AudiA23l
 
Hi Audia23l,

My 1.2 TDI was fitted with tyres in size 165/70R14 when I purchased it. I've since changed to 145/80 Ecopias. The 165 width tyres made slow speed maneuvering very tedious (no power steering), whereas their handling/braking was better than the scary Ecopias.

Your fuel consumption is impressive. I get about 3.7 l/100 km in summer, 4.2 in winter. But then I do travel at 130 kmh for half of my commute.


GA
 
Hi Gaff

That is interesting. Did you notice much difference in ride comfort or fuel consumption when you changed to the Ecopia's? What type of 165/70 tyres were fitted?

My A2 is fitted with power steering so the 165/70 tyres should not be a problem.

I drive completely for economy, always in Eco mode. There is an 80 kph speed limit on minor Irish roads and I generally drive at this speed. The speed limit on motorways is 120 but I rarely exceed 100 kph.

One has to be careful with the Ecopia's on wet twisty roads. If you try and carry a bit of speed or free wheel round a bend to prevent the transmission selecting third gear it is easy to lose grip. The ESP has never activated though.

I am hoping that the Pirelli Cinturato's will provide better grip with similar fuel consumption.

Regards

Neil
 
Hi Audia23l,

I much preferred driving with the 165 section tyres. They were Bridgestones, don't know what variety. If I could get confirmation that 165/70 tyres are legal on the A2's skinny rims (and in France!) then I would certainly choose them next time.

Difficult to say whether they made much of a difference to fuel consumption because I was also learning to drive the A2 sparingly at that time. The difference is not going to be much more than 0.3 l/100 km.

The French automobile press has highlighted that eco tyres fitted to brand new low consumption versions of cars has adds about 5 metres to their braking distances compared to the ordinary model. This comment was sparked by the green versions of the polo and ibiza.

GA
 
B381s are available again from Bridgestone

Having been brought up on skinny tyred cars I have never had an issue with the 145 width B381s.

Fiat 127 had 135 secion and Lancia Fulvia 145 as well.

First A2OC day at Castle Combe race track i tried her out with a Lotus Racing Driver - he was very impressed by the low amount of roll and reasonable grip. It was good to take the car close to it's limits to get a feel for it's ability.

As for ESP activation - you wouldn't know it unless you try to accellerate through the bends or the warning light comes on regarding de-activation (sheet ice etc).

In Germany one chap has modified one for Nurburgring use - he has taken off the ESP as it inteferes with handling on fast corners.
 
Hi Lukas,

Scary is the most appropriate description of my A2's handling and braking. The slightest hint of dampness and this car is a liability. I blame the Ecopias. I think their problem is partly the eco-compound, and partly the profile. Up the pace a little and the limits of the tyres are reached very quickly. On roundabouts its so easy to lose control at the front end. Now this I can cope with, its sometimes fun, I haven't yet ran out of road. However, what really scares me is braking, especially on the motorway, when the traffic concertinas, the car in front can always stop shorter than the A2 with its non-stick tyres. My brakes are powerful, and I believe in good condition. Brake hard and its easy to lock up a wheel or two, and then the car can get really out of shape. Never had this impression with my other cars, which are much more predictable.

I'll be fitting some bridgestone blizzak winter tyres in a few weeks time, also in 145 width. Be interesting to compare them.

Could my A2's dampers be in bad condition? The car jumps in the air over the slightest bump. Braking hard gives plenty of dive at the front. Feels as graceful as a 2CV through roundabouts (leans a lot).


GA
 
A2 Ecopia wet grip

Hi Gaff, Luckas

You are right. The real problem is wet grip. There is a sharp right angle bend on a minor road that I drive around ever day. A few days ago in the wet I approached it about 5 kph too fast and the A2 went into a 4 wheel slide. My ecopia's are about half worn. Luckily it gripped again and no harm was done. But it is scary. My BMW 320D E46 never did this even at much higher speeds. Grip in the dry is not too bad with mild understeer. The A2 doesn't lean excessively on roundabouts and grips suprisingly well. The ABS often intrudes when braking especially in the wet.

My A2 doesn't jump in the air on bad roads but the front suspension bottoms out with a crash. This is worse with a LH drive car when driving on the left as most pot-holes are close to the side of the road. I do not drive fast and this happens at very modest speeds. You can't average 100mpg or 2.8l/100km driving fast.

It sounds like your dampers may be worn. Does the back bounce on low frequency bumps? This is a good indication that the dampers are worn. Are they leaking?

The real problem is that the Ecopia is an old fashion hard compound low rolling resistance tyre. Modern high silica tyres have good wet grip and low rolling resistance.

The E.T.R.T.O. (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation) tyre manual states that up to 175 mm wide tyres can be fitted to 4.5J rims. This is the absolute upper limit and is obviously not preferred. Hence there should be no legal problems with fitting 165/70 tyres to the A2. I have owned a VW Passat and Golf in the past the 4.5J rims and 165/70 tyres.

I will be getting the Pirelli Cinturato's fitted shortly and will let you know how they perform. More research also needs to be done on fitting Koni FSD dampers.


Regards

AudiA23l
 
Would 165/65/R14 75T tyres work on the 1.2Tdi?
Are 155/70/R14 77T better?

These would be for winter (spiked) tyres and so higher pressure on the wheels should make for better grip on the ice. Any insight would be useful.
The 165/65/R14 is probably a better tyre all round but if the size does not work or the weight capacity is too small the previous generation tyre would work.


My current winter wheels are 165/65/R14 79T and my summer tyres are Michelin Energy Savers that are 175 width.

The minimum load index required is 72 according to the vehicles documentation so a load index of 75 should be fine? A pair of 75 wheels at the front can support more weight than the maximum axle load and so should be fine.

Any advice would be appreciated!


John
 
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Tyres for A2 1.2 TDI

John L said:
Would 165/65/R14 75T tyres work on the 1.2Tdi?
Are 155/70/R14 77T better?

These would be for winter (spiked) tyres and so higher pressure on the wheels should make for better grip on the ice. Any insight would be useful.
The 165/65/R14 is probably a better tyre all round but if the size does not work or the weight capacity is too small the previous generation tyre would work.


My current winter wheels are 165/65/R14 79T and my summer tyres are Michelin Energy Savers that are 175 width.

The minimum load index required is 72 according to the vehicles documentation so a load index of 75 should be fine? A pair of 75 wheels at the front can support more weight than the maximum axle load and so should be fine.

Any advice would be appreciated!


John
Click to expand...

Would 165/65/R14 75T tyres work on the 1.2Tdi? No, diameter = (107.25 x 2) + (14 x 25.4) = 570.1mm
Are 155/70/R14 77T better? No, diameter = (108.5 x 2) + (14 x 25.4) = 572.6 mm
The above tyres will give an error of approximately 3% over read on the speedometer and odometer. Mine already has a 2% over read. So a potential 5% error is significant.

165/70 x R14 are the best tyres to fit to the A2 1.2TDI. They are virtually the same diameter as the original 145/80 R14.
165/70 x R14 diameter = (115.5 x 2) + (14 x 25.4) = 586.6 mm
145/80 x R14 diameter = (116 x 2) + (14 x 25.4) = 587.6 mm

The original Bridgestone Ecopia B381 145/80 x R14 summer tyres are 'C' rated for rolling resistance, 'C' rated for wet grip and 70 db noise
The Bridgestone Blizzard LM-18 145/80 x R14 winter tyres are 'G' rated for rolling resistance, 'E' rated for wet grip and 69 db noise

I have both winter and summer tyres and have experienced a 10% increase in fuel consumption on the Winter tyres. 3.3 l/100 average instead of 3.0 l/100

The next set of tyres that I fit will be 165/70 x R14. The best of these is the continental Eco-Contact 5. They are 'B' rated for rolling resistance, 'B' rated for wet grip and 68 db noise. The reason I have not fitted them is that they are only available in an XL extra load version. 85 (515 kg) load rating instead of 81 (462 kg) for a standard 165/70 x R14. The 85 load version may be heavier and I do not want to increase the un-sprung mass. The ride quality is bad enough already. The rolling resistance is also calculated as a percentage of the maximum load so I am not sure that the rolling resistance will be less than a 'C' energy rated 81 load rated tyre. I want to improve on the rolling resistance of the original Bridgestone Ecopia B381. They have a 76 load rating (400 kg).

What fuel consumption do you get on the Michelin Energy Savers that are 175 wide? They are really too wide for the original wheels.

I have no knowledge of spiked tyres as the weather is not cold enough for them in Ireland.

Regards

Neil
 
On long runs the fuel use is averaging 3.0l on the Energy Savers. 175mm is the outside limit for the 4.5j rims and certainly I would not go for such wide tyres again.
The tyres came on the car rather than being what I have chosen.
Is it possible that the speedo could have been altered to suit different tyres? The speedo reads a little over the GPS reading on the Michelins but not by so much.
My existing 165/65/r14 does not seem to be too bad either.
The issue is that studded winter tyres are not made in that many sizes and certainly a narrower tire has more chance of gripping on ice than the 175mm width and the new generation of tyres have much better grip than the older ones. The 155/65r14 is possible but nobody makes 165/70/r14 in studded tyres.

There are no Nokian studded tyres made in 165/70/r14 and non-studded tyres are frowned upon by the police here. You will often get a ticket for non-studded winter wheels here and even if not you will be unable to get up hills from January to March...
Basically I am let with a choice of an accurate speedo or an ability to drive... I quite like the over reading speedo here (not the odometer though :-() as it buys some safety against the extremely tight speed limit enforcement we have here (44km/h in a 30km/h zone results in loss of licence).

Is there a method to calibrate the speedo?

John
 
I've driven over 185,000 miles with this machine and 145 tyres with no issues - those who find narrow tyres "scary" should get their vehicles checked for wheel alignment and I suggest front camber adjustment to the Audi recommended (-ve) limit . Mine are set at -1 degree front camber.

The bridgestone b381s are very talkative - just because a tyre squeals does not mean it will suddenly let go wet or dry. I recommend an outing on a wide race track in wet and dry conditions with an experienced instructor.

Indeed the ecopia rubber lives on in newer Eco cars including BMW i3: 155/70R19

http://bmwi3.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/bmw-i3-wheels-efficient-effective-or.html

Now where to find a new set of B381s?
 
I've never had a problem with 145's either. The last time I looked B381's were quite pricey at Mytyres but much cheaper elsewhere.

RAB
 
If I could get confirmation that 165/70 tyres are legal on the A2's skinny rims (and in France!)
Click to expand...


Sorry to dig out a 7 year old post, but it is of interest (to me!): Gaff, did you actually manage to find out if 165/70 are legal on the A2 3L in France. I am currently importing mine from Switzerland to France - as I am moving - and would be curious to know, as 145 /80 are becoming more and more difficult to source.

Thanks,

Alain
 
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Hi Alain

I hope this is of use to you.

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Bridgestone B381
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