Little Dog
A2OC Donor
1.4 TDi oil pump / balance shaft chain and chain tensioner replacement.
- Thread starter Little Dog
- Start date
Ami
A2OC Donor
375 k miles, sounds fantastic
dj_efk
A2OC Donor
So you’ve replaced the chain 4 times in that mileage? What prompted such regular changes?
Rob at WOM kindly sent some images of Cosmo's oil chain guide / parts changed during the engine rebuild (I figured with everything else being done it made sense to get this done as part of the work) - at 290-odd thousand miles. Plastic guides worn through to the metal and wear where the tensioner piston meets the arm. I am reasonably certain it needed doing.
CrispyEdd
Member
Lordy
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
@Ami Step 6 updated with torques. Could somebody with a manual check them please? Thank you.
dj_efk
A2OC Donor
Yep that needed doing. However if that’s the original you’ve done very well to get that mileage out of it when others have experience complete chain failure at half that mileage.
It’s strange how vastly different rates of wear are evident with different cars and the denominating factor doesn’t appear to be service schedule fidelity.
No evidence of it having been done previously and the maintenance record for the first owner is documented in a thick folder ; the 1.5~2 years before I picked up Cosmo are documented in various threads on A2oc. I think the main mileage was done in daily commutes up and down the A90 to Aberdeen area, so always having an opportunity to stretch the legs and warm up properly rather than local short hops - especially as the village there has literally a local shop and nothing else - even proper shopping would take a good 20 minute run up the A-road to Stonehaven or Montrose the other way.
Also then have to take into account good fortune, every component being a "good one" from a "good batch", assembled on a good day and so on - statistically that is probably the way that you get that far.
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
I think it's how they were driven, combined with oil changes. My sprockets and chain were very good, slippers wearing. My car never missed an oil change, 1/4 mile from home the speed limit is 60 and 5 miles either way is motorway. As soon as it shows signs of warming up it gets driven hard and long. Does that count as mechanical sympathy?
Edit, I think it does, my car runs for mile after mile at constant load, and probably also with constant lubrication. None of this stop start that will result in constantly changing loads that are high when accelerating.
Edit 2, because my car spends a lot of time in top gear the engine rotations per mile will be much less than a city based car.
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Little Dog
A2OC Donor
I have had a number of requests to borrow my crank seal fitting tool. However I have a strict rule relating to books and tools, I never let them out of my sight but I'm willing to make myself available with the tools.
For those of you who live too far away 3D printing may be your solution. @Bordos has developed a 3D printing download that produces a tool that does the job, https://www.a2oc.net/community/inde...seal-installation-tool-for-3d-printing.51530/
For those of you who live too far away 3D printing may be your solution. @Bordos has developed a 3D printing download that produces a tool that does the job, https://www.a2oc.net/community/inde...seal-installation-tool-for-3d-printing.51530/
Bordos
Member
As i went through this job (on my own) I will contribute my piece to this matter:
1. As @philward already pointed - I have made a 3D printable tool for the crankshaft seal (this is very useful to have for this job),
2. If you have access to VAG - check and write down the timing synchronisation (engine, group 4) - for reference when you will be checking it afterwards.
3. The plastic cover inside the sump - it is very fragile (yes, I broke my and bought a new one) - if you do not want to damage it, note that there are 3 screws, the clips - but the cover is also strongly held in place by the oil pump o-ring. Therefore do not try to open all clips for the cover to "drop" but pull the cover downwards (the pipe what holds it is just above the inlet in the cover) and while pulling unclip slightly the cover. If you need a new one - the part number is 045 103 669E and costs about 28 GBP (bought it in Poland). Interesting bit (not official I guess) is that the guy in Audi told me, that the metal filter build into the cover tends to be "clogged" therefore a new one was a good idea.
Additionally I would not recommend to install damaged cover if more than 2 clips are missing.
4. The copper links on the chain, on which you base the correct relation between the crankshaft and the balance-shaft are only in place when you assemble it - after one rotation of the engine the marks will not match copper links and this is normal.
5. O-ring for the oil pump inlet port is 24x2,5 and it should be a FKM one (OEM N90832501).
6. O-ring for the oil level sensor (the one mounted from the top) is 13,5x2,5 (OEM N90974402) also FKM.
7. There is another o-ring in the place where oil dipstick tube is going inside the sump - but its type is a mystery (is does not exist in ETKA) - I seem to be 13,5x2,5...
8. To be sure that all screws will fit perfectly I used a M7 (M7x1) metric tap on water pump holes, sump holes and seal cover holes.
9. The middle timing belt cover must go into right place near the alternator (slide in...) - my friend who helped me during the process did not check that I we have bent the b****r - it cause quote a lot of additional work.
10. In BHC engine there is an air tube bracket (6N0 145 812A) mounted into the sump (2 screws) - it is very fragile and if you brake it - you will not be able to buy it (no longer in production). I found mine to be already damaged therefore I had to improvise
In my story replacement of the chain and all around it (even the vaccum pump seal) - made the engine work w bit smoother, I gain more power below 2000 rpm .... but the annoying rattle noise stayed with me
1. As @philward already pointed - I have made a 3D printable tool for the crankshaft seal (this is very useful to have for this job),
2. If you have access to VAG - check and write down the timing synchronisation (engine, group 4) - for reference when you will be checking it afterwards.
3. The plastic cover inside the sump - it is very fragile (yes, I broke my and bought a new one) - if you do not want to damage it, note that there are 3 screws, the clips - but the cover is also strongly held in place by the oil pump o-ring. Therefore do not try to open all clips for the cover to "drop" but pull the cover downwards (the pipe what holds it is just above the inlet in the cover) and while pulling unclip slightly the cover. If you need a new one - the part number is 045 103 669E and costs about 28 GBP (bought it in Poland). Interesting bit (not official I guess) is that the guy in Audi told me, that the metal filter build into the cover tends to be "clogged" therefore a new one was a good idea.
Additionally I would not recommend to install damaged cover if more than 2 clips are missing.
4. The copper links on the chain, on which you base the correct relation between the crankshaft and the balance-shaft are only in place when you assemble it - after one rotation of the engine the marks will not match copper links and this is normal.
5. O-ring for the oil pump inlet port is 24x2,5 and it should be a FKM one (OEM N90832501).
6. O-ring for the oil level sensor (the one mounted from the top) is 13,5x2,5 (OEM N90974402) also FKM.
7. There is another o-ring in the place where oil dipstick tube is going inside the sump - but its type is a mystery (is does not exist in ETKA) - I seem to be 13,5x2,5...
8. To be sure that all screws will fit perfectly I used a M7 (M7x1) metric tap on water pump holes, sump holes and seal cover holes.
9. The middle timing belt cover must go into right place near the alternator (slide in...) - my friend who helped me during the process did not check that I we have bent the b****r - it cause quote a lot of additional work.
10. In BHC engine there is an air tube bracket (6N0 145 812A) mounted into the sump (2 screws) - it is very fragile and if you brake it - you will not be able to buy it (no longer in production). I found mine to be already damaged therefore I had to improvise
In my story replacement of the chain and all around it (even the vaccum pump seal) - made the engine work w bit smoother, I gain more power below 2000 rpm .... but the annoying rattle noise stayed with me
Sidewinder
A2OC Donor
I'm pleased to report I've now completed a oil chain and tensioner change on my grey ATL90!
Thanks to @philward and all the contributors to this thread, it went well and I have no leaks .
I did mine in my garage with the car on ramps, next time though I would remove the wheel arch liner before with the wheel off.
I had 2 febi kits, one with chain, tensioner and 3 sprockets and one with just the chain and tensioner, as I have another to do in the future, I examined sprocket teeth very carefully and determined they did not need replacing. I did change the idler though as the original had a slight bit of play compared with a new one. The stuff left over I'll see if my 180K mile needs if it gets noisy.
I wanted to do this as when I removed the sump to reseal it on another job, I noticed the tensioner arm was quite far out and the chain was very close to the crankcase:
There was also chain noise more noticeable on this car than my other, so it had to be done.
I bought the crank hold tool and after deliberation and not knowing someone with a 3D printer, I bought the T10053 seal inserter tool, I'm glad I did, the corteco seal I had bought came on its own mounting former but this wouldn't fit over the crank and if I had not bought T10053, my shampoo bottle lid would have pushed it off onto a rough bit of the crank nose.
Thankfully though I was able to transfer it to the T10053 former and this slid more onto the crank, to the clean section, and the seal was installed easily correctly.
I bought all the bolts and O rings from the list from Audi, they cost me ~ £42, not including engine mount bolts.
I did it over a number of evenings during last week, then it was road tested over about 50 miles before I could declare it leak free yesterday.
Despite the extended tensioner, I didn't think the slipper pads were that worn compared to others on here, the car has ~168K miles.
Again, Thanks for this thread, it gave me the encouragement to do it.
Regards
Andy
Thanks to @philward and all the contributors to this thread, it went well and I have no leaks
.I did mine in my garage with the car on ramps, next time though I would remove the wheel arch liner before with the wheel off.
I had 2 febi kits, one with chain, tensioner and 3 sprockets and one with just the chain and tensioner, as I have another to do in the future, I examined sprocket teeth very carefully and determined they did not need replacing. I did change the idler though as the original had a slight bit of play compared with a new one. The stuff left over I'll see if my 180K mile needs if it gets noisy.
I wanted to do this as when I removed the sump to reseal it on another job, I noticed the tensioner arm was quite far out and the chain was very close to the crankcase:
There was also chain noise more noticeable on this car than my other, so it had to be done.
I bought the crank hold tool and after deliberation and not knowing someone with a 3D printer, I bought the T10053 seal inserter tool, I'm glad I did, the corteco seal I had bought came on its own mounting former but this wouldn't fit over the crank and if I had not bought T10053, my shampoo bottle lid would have pushed it off onto a rough bit of the crank nose.
Thankfully though I was able to transfer it to the T10053 former and this slid more onto the crank, to the clean section, and the seal was installed easily correctly.
I bought all the bolts and O rings from the list from Audi, they cost me ~ £42, not including engine mount bolts.
I did it over a number of evenings during last week, then it was road tested over about 50 miles before I could declare it leak free yesterday.
Despite the extended tensioner, I didn't think the slipper pads were that worn compared to others on here, the car has ~168K miles.
Again, Thanks for this thread, it gave me the encouragement to do it.
Regards
Andy
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Bordos
Member
Can you describe how it was “loud”? When and how was it rattling ?I'm pleased to report I've now completed a oil chain and tensioner change on my grey ATL90!
Thanks to @philward and all the contributors to this thread, it went well and I have no leaks
I did mine in my garage with the car on ramps, next time though I would remove the wheel arch liner before with the wheel off.
I had 2 febi kits, one with 3 sprockets and one with just the chain and tensioner, as I have another to do in the future, I examined sprocket teeth very carefully and determined they did not need replacing. I did change the idler though as the original had a slight bit of play compared with a new one. The stuff left over I'll see if my 180K mile needs if it gets noisy.
I wanted to do this as when I removed the sump to reseal it on another job, I noticed the tensioner arm was quite far out and the chain was very close to the crankcase:
View attachment 110347
There was also chain noise more noticeable on this car than my other, so it had to be done.
I bought the crank hold tool and after deliberation and not knowing someone with a 3D printer, I bought the T10053 seal inserter tool, I'm glad I did, the corteco seal I had bought came on its own mounting former but this wouldn't fit over the crank and if I had not bought T10053, my shampoo bottle lid would have pushed it off onto a rough bit of the crank nose.
Thankfully though I was able to transfer it to the T10053 former and this slid more onto the crank, to the clean section, and the seal was installed easily correctly.
I bought all the bolts and O rings from the list from Audi, they cost me ~ £42, not including engine mount bolts.
I did it over a number of evenings during last week, then it was road tested over about 50 miles before I could declare it leak free yesterday.
View attachment 110348
Despite the extended tensioner, I didn't think the slipper pads were that worn compared to others on here, the car has ~168K miles.
View attachment 110349
View attachment 110350
Again, Thanks for this thread, it gave me the encouragement to do it.
Regards
Andy
Sidewinder
A2OC Donor
I wouldn't say it was loud or rattling, but chain running noise was more noticeable when comparing my AMF to my ATL at idle with my head down at the offside wheel, as close to the sump as I could get it. I've also been advised to use a hammer/screwdriver/engine stethoscope to listen but didn't really do that as I just compared the 2 cars (same 507 oil used on both) and the ATL was noisier.
Post chain and tensioner replacement on the ATL, and the ATL is as quiet as the AMF.
Regards
Andy
Post chain and tensioner replacement on the ATL, and the ATL is as quiet as the AMF.
Regards
Andy
Little Dog
A2OC Donor
For it to rattle the chain has to hit something. In my case there was no rattling but I was aware of the risk of the chain breaking. Then one day I was driving onto a roundabout and a speeding car approached from the right. I gave Little Dog full beans, max revs to get out of the way. The rattling sound was quite loud. I suspect the revs had thrown the chain out and it caught the inside of the crank seal housing or perhaps it was bouncing around on the slipper pads.
Like @Sidewinder I had very little wear to my chain and sprockets, I could probably have got away with a new tensioner / slipper pad assembly.
I'm part way through this job on my wife's car (previously owned by @Proghound). So far the only thing I would add is on the tools for the job I would highly recommend anyone attempting this to have a good impact gun to hand to tackle the bolt on the crank sprocket: I have the holding tool and a spare pair of hands to help, but I managed to twist a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter on the breaker bar going to a 19mm socket. This bolt was unbelievably tight. I already have a load of Makita LXT 18v tools so I went for one of these.
The thing is a monster. A few seconds with a 1/2" 19mm impact socket fitted and the bolt was free.
Excellent write up @philward , thanks!
The thing is a monster. A few seconds with a 1/2" 19mm impact socket fitted and the bolt was free.
Excellent write up @philward , thanks!