1.4 Tdi Struggling to start..

Before removing the OS engine mount remove the turbo outlet air pipe support bracket from the sump. If yours is broken or missing then someone did not do so before a cam belt change!

If this bracket is broken or missing the stress is now all on the lower intercooler end cap which will end up cracking and spitting out the seal an limp mode follows from there....
 
Before removing the OS engine mount remove the turbo outlet air pipe support bracket from the sump. If yours is broken or missing then someone did not do so before a cam belt change!

If this bracket is broken or missing the stress is now all on the lower intercooler end cap which will end up cracking and spitting out the seal an limp mode follows from there....
A few days ago I was sat with my BIL looking at his Rickman Ranger which has a 1.4 tdi engine. The sump sticks out the bottom of the car and is clearly visible, we were looking at it wondering what the broken plastic bit was on the bottom.. 🤔

Yesterday I stripped down my spare engine and noticed the same broken plastic bit on the sump.. I think I know what it is now!

Thanks for the tip @audifan :)
 
A few days ago I was sat with my BIL looking at his Rickman Ranger which has a 1.4 tdi engine. The sump sticks out the bottom of the car and is clearly visible, we were looking at it wondering what the broken plastic bit was on the bottom..

Yesterday I stripped down my spare engine and noticed the same broken plastic bit on the sump.. I think I know what it is now!

Thanks for the tip @audifan :)

And if you want a replacement lower turbo pipe clamp I manufacture these as no longer available form Audi


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I was still determined to get this car started again, so I tried again today with a recharged battery. I bled the inlet to the pump and there was loads of air in that line, then I bled the return and there was loads of air in it too. So I cranked away and after about 50 seconds cranking it did fire up and run. I managed to stop myself from revving it this time, so I just left it to idle, hoping it would sort itself out. It ran fairly rough for about 4 minutes and then stopped :eek:.

I've got a bit of clear pipe in the feed from the sender, and I could see in that there is air in the line. Of course that air could be getting into the sender via the return line. Either way there is too much air in the system for it to sort itself out, as hoped.

So I will leave it for now until I can get some help with it from my brother in law.
 
It would be good to know what the internal flow paths, and non return valves are within the sender. I'd be surprised if the point where air emerges from the return line is lower than the pickup. So return air shouldn't be the source of air in the feed.
I've felt for a while that the sender assembly is your root cause.
Mac.
 
It would be good to know what the internal flow paths, and non return valves are within the sender. I'd be surprised if the point where air emerges from the return line is lower than the pickup. So return air shouldn't be the source of air in the feed.
I've felt for a while that the sender assembly is your root cause.
Mac.
I switched senders back when I had the other car, and it made no difference to either car, one still ran perfectly, and the other didn't. For that reason I have been ruling out the sender, but I have also had them both stripped down to clean, so something could have gone awry maybe. I'll maybe see if I can set something up without the sender, just two pipes into the tank 🤔
 
I switched senders back when I had the other car, and it made no difference to either car, one still ran perfectly, and the other didn't. For that reason I have been ruling out the sender, but I have also had them both stripped down to clean, so something could have gone awry maybe. I'll maybe see if I can set something up without the sender, just two pipes into the tank 🤔
I think I'm mixing up your car and Johny's.
Mac.
 
I was still determined to get this car started again, so I tried again today with a recharged battery. I bled the inlet to the pump and there was loads of air in that line, then I bled the return and there was loads of air in it too. So I cranked away and after about 50 seconds cranking it did fire up and run. I managed to stop myself from revving it this time, so I just left it to idle, hoping it would sort itself out. It ran fairly rough for about 4 minutes and then stopped :eek:.

I've got a bit of clear pipe in the feed from the sender, and I could see in that there is air in the line. Of course that air could be getting into the sender via the return line. Either way there is too much air in the system for it to sort itself out, as hoped.

So I will leave it for now until I can get some help with it from my brother in law.
If you hang a can of diesel over the pump and feed it direct into the pump does it run until it empties the can? You would have to block the feed from the filter. You may also need a second can on the return side but I would try first returning the unused but pumped fuel back to tank.
 
I took the injectors out of my spare engine today, so I thought looking at them and where they go in the engine, might shed some light on how/if bad injector seals could let air into the fuel flow?

The hole near the top must be where fuel goes into the injector
View attachment 122905
In the head there are two holes, so I'm guessing one flow and one return.
View attachment 122906View attachment 122907
I suppose if that top O ring wasn't perfectly sealed then air could get in there?
These injector seals are completely shot!
Looking at the orange O ring the sides are completely flat fit a set of seals to each Injector & try that , I think it will make a great improvement for minimum outlay
Hope that helps
Keith .
 
If you hang a can of diesel over the pump and feed it direct into the pump does it run until it empties the can? You would have to block the feed from the filter. You may also need a second can on the return side but I would try first returning the unused but pumped fuel back to tank.
Yes it does that no problem, although I haven’t tried since I put the old pump back on..
 
These injector seals are completely shot!
Looking at the orange O ring the sides are completely flat fit a set of seals to each Injector & try that , I think it will make a great improvement for minimum outlay
Hope that helps
Keith .
Thanks Keith, those are actually from my spare engine, but it is more than likely the injector seals are not good..
 
Yes it does that no problem, although I haven’t tried since I put the old pump back on..
I would try again with the old pump. However I think you will conclude there is nothing wrong with the pump shaft seal. To double check have the pump draw diesel from ground level and squeeze the pipe to increase the negative pressure in the pump. That, if the engine runs, eliminates the pump from the list of suspects. I would be very surprised if it were the injector seals. But you could fit a clear return pipe and check. It may take a while to run clear of bubbles but that would exclude the injectors.
Main suspect would then be feed and return lines and the filter housing.
 
It has indeed been a glorious day, but we got a bit dsistracted by other things so not as much progress as hoped, but definitely moving forwards, still in a slightly puzzling way..

First thing we did was hook up again to a fuel can, with feed and return into the same can. After bleeding the return line, the car started up relatively quickly and ran okay.

Despite the return line being a white froth, and the feed almost the same, the car still ran fine like this and would start no problem.
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We consulted with some other diesel experts, and concluded that the white froth that can be seen is what happens to diesel under pressure and is quite normal, which is an important conclusion because I have been assuming it was the problem. I was quite amazed the car ran okay under these circumstances, but it did. One time when the engine was shut off, we could see some air bubbles going up the return line towards the pump.

Next Richy wanted to run the car with clear lines all the way from the tank, which I didn't have enough pipe for, so we had to trundle off to a Tractor outfit not too far away and got 8m of clear braided hose.

We connected this new hose to the sender feed and return, and again to the pump feed and return directly, and bled the fuel through. The car started up very quickly and ran fine. Again the return line was a white froth, but this time the feed stayed clear.
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We started and stopped it a few times like this, including with a 2 hour gap while we had dinner etc, and it started fine each time. So problem solved, I just need to gaffer tape the pipes to the side of the car 😂

Not exactly startling progress, but a step forward, so I will see if it starts in the morning and take it from there.
 
Well she started up perfectly this morning, so that was a good start to the day, and suggested that the pump and injestor seals etc were more than likely fine.
IMG_20240511_105112.jpg
The handy thing about having the clear pipes was being able to see exactly where air was and what it was doing in the return and feed lines.

So next step we went back to standard setup but with a clear loop in the feed to the pump.

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The car struggled to start like this, and lots of air bubbles could be seen entering the pump, definitely not good. So we knew the sender wasn't the problem so most likely culprit as always, the filter unit. We decided we had to take out the housing to see what was going on, this turned out to be an epic task. The screw holding the filter housing into it's metal bracket was seized, so we had to drill that out, then it would still not shift at all. The housing was totally rusted onto the frame that it should normally slide out of. So then we tried to remove the frame and filter together. One Torx bolt and 10mm bolt were accessible, but a third was hidden up behind the filter housing, not even visible. Of course normally this would be accessible with the filter housing dropped down, but not possible for us. We managed to get a 10mm spanner onto it and get it moving though, and it was a painfully slow progress. Me and Richy took it in turns to work on it, and I think it took about 3 hours to get the pesky little bolt out, but finally it came, and the housing with it.

Even with the whole thing removed we could still not seperaqte the frame and housing at all, and were very concerned about damaging the no longer available filter housing. I had to grind off part fo the frame before we could seperate the two.
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This is the frame, which needs welding up, and also that bolt taking out, and a good clean up of course!

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The filter housing looked okay, so we rigged it up to vacuum test it, and it held a vacuum okay. So the housing itself didn't seem to be the issue, so most likely the connectors to the housing were the problem.

We found some bits of pipe to enable us to bypass the filter housing altogether, to see if that solved the problem
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Like this the car started and ran fine with no air at all in the feed, so we had finally found our problem, but not exactly which connector was causing the issue.

We had to leave things there, but I plan to sort out the filter housing and frame so it is all functional and trouble free, then cut off all the troublesome connectors and use hose and nice quality hose clamps. Richy thinks it would be better to leave the returns connected together bypassing the filter, as it seems a strange setup and causes problems, so I will ponder that. He has never seen another fuel system that is like this, with the return into the filter and the fuel cooler etc, so I'm wondering if anyone else has cars with fuel coolers on?

It's been a very tortuous process indeed, but hopefully I am homing in on a good result. And if you haven't got the shield fitted over the fuel filter on your car, then I would try and sort something, because mine has suffered badly from not having for who knows how many years?
 

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Well done on your superb perseverance!
I does make my wonder if pipes that are never disturbed have done this then potentially others with the later filter could run in to the same trouble given time?
I wonder if it's possible to convert back to the earlier cannister type filter but these might also have quick clip type fasteners, my memory fails me at the moment
 
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