A2 1.6FSI Fuel issues, poor running off cylinder

[999fire]

Hi all,

I am looking for some help in trying to work out what is wrong with my Colour Storm 1.6FSI. It is running hesitantly as if it is off a cylinder but both VCDS and Snap - On diagnostic checks are showing NO engine faults. Car feels like it is running on a faulty coil pack, but they all are good, new Audi spark plugs fitted and no difference. Started to think it was the in-tank delivery pump, so I changed it but no difference again. So, I then changed the fuel filter and to my horror it was full of dirt and now I am thinking it has gotten through the filter up to the HPFP and damaged it and/or injectors?
At this point folks, when changing the in-tank pump I had a good look inside the tank, and it was clean enough, so I thought I got a fill or two of bad petrol (E5) which I was buying from the same fuel station most of the time.
Would someone please let me know what you think and check out the scan logs attached as it is driving me nuts and it is my daily driver with only 141K miles on it.

Thank you in anticipation everyone

 

[Andrew]

Good Evening,

Had to smile at "only 141k miles on it".

I think the best thing I can do in the next few days is create the same log as practical with my believed healthy FSI and see what comes of a comparison. I assume you were stationary. What is the significance of the markers you put in at the end?

It would do no harm to add a dose of injector cleaner to the tank after seeing your pictures of black contaminated petrol. There was a similar thread a few months ago.

Andy

 

[999fire]

Good Evening,

Had to smile at "only 141k miles on it".

I think the best thing I can do in the next few days is create the same log as practical with my believed healthy FSI and see what comes of a comparison. I assume you were stationary. What is the significance of the markers you put in at the end?

It would do no harm to add a dose of injector cleaner to the tank after seeing your pictures of black contaminated petrol. There was a similar thread a few months ago.

Andy

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your help, yes, my car was stationary but I'm not sure what you mean by markers at end?

 

[Andrew]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your help, yes, my car was stationary but I'm not sure what you mean by markers at end?

Good Evening,

In the log file of Group block data, in the left hand column = the marker column at the end are 3 marked points. Sounds like you inadvertently pressed/clicked the Marker button.

Marker points are very useful as you can mark in the log when something notable occurs during a test drive.

Andy

 

[999fire]

Good Evening,

In the log file of Group block data, in the left hand column = the marker column at the end are 3 marked points. Sounds like you inadvertently pressed/clicked the Marker button.

Marker points are very useful as you can mark in the log when something notable occurs during a test drive.

Andy

Thanks Andy,

Sounds about right, still learning how to use this software as my son is much more adapt to it but he lives a few miles away from me.

 

[999fire]

Good Evening,

Had to smile at "only 141k miles on it".

I think the best thing I can do in the next few days is create the same log as practical with my believed healthy FSI and see what comes of a comparison. I assume you were stationary. What is the significance of the markers you put in at the end?

It would do no harm to add a dose of injector cleaner to the tank after seeing your pictures of black contaminated petrol. There was a similar thread a few months ago.

Andy

I have run a bottle of VW/Audi petrol additive G001 780 M2 through last full tank and I'm also trying Dipetane at the moment as well.

 

[Andrew]

Good Evening,

A second attempt to create a VCDS log for comparison with your log, managed to lose the first one - don't ask.

Something went most odd at the start. I don't remember not starting the car for 35 seconds, maybe a few seconds for seat belt, ignition and waiting for cars to pass but not 35 seconds and then 25 to 35 seconds there is no log at all??? Just ignore it and read from 36 seconds.

I tried to match your log in appearance to make comparison easier but I have yet to consider the data - a later post.

Andy

 

[999fire]

Good Evening,

A second attempt to create a VCDS log for comparison with your log, managed to lose the first one - don't ask.

Something went most odd at the start. I don't remember not starting the car for 35 seconds, maybe a few seconds for seat belt, ignition and waiting for cars to pass but not 35 seconds and then 25 to 35 seconds there is no log at all??? Just ignore it and read from 36 seconds.

I tried to match your log in appearance to make comparison easier but I have yet to consider the data - a later post.

Andy

Thanks Andy, much appreciated
I will compare the two logs later on as I've a couple of things to do with my car this evening and I'll get back to you.
A couple of other guys thinks it is all because of a dirty tank so I'm lifting my intank pump out to check it and also changeover my level switch as well.

 

[Andrew]

Good Evening Again,

Having now had chance to compare the logs I have realised a comparison is invalid. I noticed that my 'Air Mass Flow' was dwarfing yours with your 'Injection Time' half of mine in the same revs range on average, then I remembered you had said you were stationary and I was driving .

Apologies in the next few days I will log again but this time stationary, just got to choose somewhere out of the way.

On the positive side your Group 140 values look fine to me.

Andy

 

[999fire]

Good Evening Again,

Having now had chance to compare the logs I have realised a comparison is invalid. I noticed that my 'Air Mass Flow' was dwarfing yours with your 'Injection Time' half of mine in the same revs range on average, then I remembered you had said you were stationary and I was driving .

Apologies in the next few days I will log again but this time stationary, just got to choose somewhere out of the way.

On the positive side your Group 140 values look fine to me.

Andy

Cheers Andy, had a look inside my tank earlier and yes there is dirt in it including metal particles which I can't understand where they have come from?

 

[PlasticMac]

Cheers Andy, had a look inside my tank earlier and yes there is dirt in it including metal particles which I can't understand where they have come from?

Maybe get a small magnet, and, via the pump access, attach it to the tank, and leave it, to collect the metal bits over a few days, like a magnetic sump plug.
I can't think of any source of metallic swarf in the tank.
Mac.
( @Andrew the Group 005,140, & 141 log I sent you has several periods of idling in it, any good as comparison?)
Mac.

 

[Andrew]

Good Evening,

Third attempt at a VCDS log for comparison with yours and this time stationary but looking at the log I was too erratic with the revs which made comparison frustrating. The comparison to me reveals nothing that stands out so no insight to assist with your running reluctance.

Andy

 

[JavaGreen]

Good Evening,

Third attempt at a VCDS log for comparison with yours and this time stationary but looking at the log I was too erratic with the revs which made comparison frustrating. The comparison to me reveals nothing that stands out so no insight to assist with your running reluctance.

Andy

Had similar problem that took months to resolve:

Fuel filter had disintegrated and damaged HPFP (got one from Steve) and had fuel lines cleaned out. I same as you replaced coil packs etc to no avail. Put it down to fuel contamination…… only purchase from BP now , super of course, no problems since. CStorm 125k. Also put one of Steve’s ecu’s on board

 

[PlasticMac]

Hi,
Is the symptom present when idling, or only when driving?
Is it there from a cold start or only once the engine is warm?
Mac

 

[PlasticMac]

If the fault only occurs when driving, engine under load, only a log of fuel pressure while driving will help. If it occurs while idling then your idling log does not point to fuel pressure as a cause.
If the fault is on one cylinder, then fuel pressure is less likely to be the cause, more likely injector. If it was electrical, loom or wiring I'd expect a DTC.
The "coil packs are all good" but how can you be sure?
Are the coil packs the original, (fitted at manufacturer'), Audi, items? If so, replace them all, they are a common failure on cars, not just VAG, of A2 vintage. If they are replacements, are they Audi Bosch NGK, or Beru, not aftermarket own brands?
Mac.

 

[999fire]

If the fault only occurs when driving, engine under load, only a log of fuel pressure while driving will help. If it occurs while idling then your idling log does not point to fuel pressure as a cause.
If the fault is on one cylinder, then fuel pressure is less likely to be the cause, more likely injector. If it was electrical, loom or wiring I'd expect a DTC.
The "coil packs are all good" but how can you be sure?
Are the coil packs the original, (fitted at manufacturer'), Audi, items? If so, replace them all, they are a common failure on cars, not just VAG, of A2 vintage. If they are replacements, are they Audi Bosch NGK, or Beru, not aftermarket own brands?
Mac.

Hi PlasticMac, I think we have had discussions recently in relation to my own problem with my FSI, it all started off with what looks like to be really dirty fuel causing me serious misfire issues. Having checked again for fault codes on VCDS and never got any codes with my issues made me think I had a mechanical fault(s) and having changed both my in tank delivery unit and HPFP it left me with my injectors. I purchased a secondhand set off Andy Clayton and sent them to ASNU in Herts who did an excellent job in cleaning them and refurbishing them. I can now say that having just fitted them this weekend just past I can confirm that it has improved my car immensely but for one small problem, ASNU told me to 'Reset my fuel trims'. Would I be correct in saying this is the same as Quantity Learning and if so, would you be able to direct me in how to do this as I can't seem to find it on VCDS. See attached photos from my laptop showing my options both for adaption and basic settings and I would really appreciate the help if you can. Thank you.

Hi bud,
I have just sent the above reply to you on a different thread and just found this one we had been chatting over since, please read and see if you can help me as it was dirty fuel causing my problem the whole time.

Attachments​

• 
  VCDS.jpeg
  1.1 MB · Views: 0
• 
  VCDS.1.jpeg
  1.2 MB · Views: 0

 

[PlasticMac]

(Note: This is a duplicate of the answer in another thread for future reference)
I don't have any knowledge of post injector change settings, but this may help:
Group 110, "Basic Setting - Injection - Injection Time" looks to be the most relevant. The Pre Cat Lambda looks after Fuel Trim.
You can see what going on by logging Group 107, Lambda Control:
Block 001,Engine Speed,(G28)
Block 002,Lambda Control,Bank 1,Value range: -25.0...+25.0 %
Block 004,Result,,Value range: Test OFF/Test ON/Syst. ok/Syst. Not ok\nSetpoint: Syst. ok
Result should be Syst, ok.

To set Injection Time, (Fuel Trim), which is what the ECU uses the Lambda data for, here's the information I have:

Engine Controller, 01 > Basic Settings > Group 110.
Prerequisites: Ignition ON, Engine ON, System voltage at least 11.0 V.

[Select]
[01 - Engine]
[Basic Settings - 04]
Group 110
[Go!]
Activate the Basic Setting.
Engine Idling > Field 4 = "Test ON"
Wait Until Field 4 Displays "Syst. ok"

If anyone has done this, perhaps they can confirm this.

Make absolutely sure that you have the latest BAD Engine lbl file in your copy of VCDS.
If yours is a full version then I believe the latest update includes it. If your using Lite then download the A2OC lbl file.
Mac.

 

[PlasticMac]

@999fire If it's OK with you, I suggest we update this thread, rather than the thread started by @PhilipS.
A few questions to give a better picture of your symptoms.
What led to you suspecting the injectors needed cleaning?
Was poor fuel consumption a problem before the injectors were cleaned?
What type of driving have you been doing, since the injectors were refitted? (I am asking because the way in which mixture is controlled is different in stratified mode, and homegenous modes).
Has the engine had a compression test recently? (I'm thinking about your comment that there feels like a problem on one cylinder). If the compression hasn't been checked, I suggest it should be. Best check the basics, before getting into the fine detail of the FSI engine management.
Good luck with your Wife's car too.
Mac.
Mac.

 

[Indi]

As @a-zwo said in the other thread, if it’s not easy and straightforward then I wouldn’t bother going out of your way to reset the fuel trims, the car will adjust the values back down to the right ballpark within 10 or 20 miles of driving.

That being said resetting the trim should be very straightforward, even if you have no engine codes then pressing the clear codes button should still reset the fuel trims.

Open VCDS
-> 01-Engine
-> Fault Codes - 02
-> Clear Codes - 05


I’m just writing this in relation to ASNU suggesting you reset the fuel trims, it’s bears no relation to what Mac and others have suggested, which are the next steps to think about as the car still doesn’t sound like it’s running right

 

[PlasticMac]

I didn't know that clearing the FSI engine DTCs, (even if there aren't any, as with @999fire ), would reset fuel trims. Is this fact based, or assumed?
Mac.