Information A2 - Firm ride????

Birchall

Birchall

Dick Chown Award 2016
In short, yes, the A2 does have a firm ride. BUT !!!!!

I recently replaced the whole suspension, front and rear (or at least Adam Klyne did for me)
The front struts were old and extremely rusty and so it was time. The ride was “crashy” to say the least.

After the work was completed I was pleased with the ride on motorways etc. But the ride around town on bumpy roads was still “crashy”.

That was until I removed all the loose bits and pieces in the glovebox and door panels. Also in the boot area.
Adam also made sure that even the door card mountings were secure.
What a transformation. Hitting bumps etc around town became almost silent and it felt like a different car altogether.

My wife’s A2 (a 1.4 petrol) was mega quiet over bumps and because of that it just seemed less firm. So I wanted that on my TDI

So if you love your A2 but dislike the suspension, I suggest that you firstly remove all loose items in the door cards, glovebox, boot and centre consoles, (also check the door cards for squeaks) and go for a drive.

Most of the complaints about the “firm” ride tend to be about the noise in reality.

It is worth trying this before you spend several hundred pounds on new shocks and struts etc.

Steve B
 
Birchall said:
In short, yes, the A2 does have a firm ride. BUT !!!!!

I recently replaced the whole suspension, front and rear (or at least Adam Klyne did for me)
The front struts were old and extremely rusty and so it was time. The ride was “crashy” to say the least.

After the work was completed I was pleased with the ride on motorways etc. But the ride around town on bumpy roads was still “crashy”.

That was until I removed all the loose bits and pieces in the glovebox and door panels. Also in the boot area.
Adam also made sure that even the door card mountings were secure.
What a transformation. Hitting bumps etc around town became almost silent and it felt like a different car altogether.

My wife’s A2 (a 1.4 petrol) was mega quiet over bumps and because of that it just seemed less firm. So I wanted that on my TDI

So if you love your A2 but dislike the suspension, I suggest that you firstly remove all loose items in the door cards, glovebox, boot and centre consoles, (also check the door cards for squeaks) and go for a drive.

Most of the complaints about the “firm” ride tend to be about the noise in reality.

It is worth trying this before you spend several hundred pounds on new shocks and struts etc.

Steve B
Click to expand...
Worth a shot Steve!

 
It might be worth checking the shock/damper top mounts as I mentioned here:

A2 Rear Axle restoration – my journey

I'm waiting for the shocks. Ordered from APT but transpires coming from Germany. Seems to be stuck in customs in Essex. :( I hope it comes in time to fit before a long journey. Meanwhile I dremel off the ABS sensor hex bolt head. I removed the ABS sensor but the remains of the bolt (C in the...
www.a2oc.net

Back in 2016 A2 Cars changed everything, back and front. Whilst there was discussion re the make of shocks and springs, there was no mention of the bumps and mounts. Looks like some generic top mounts were installed that quickly failed and led to crashing bangs over rough roads.

Moral: ensure all components are top quality brand names.

I now have

MONROE SHOCK ABSORBER 23948
Monroe + OEM Shock top mounts
KYB Coil Springs (Pair Set) Rear RH5514
Febi Spring Rubber Buffer Suspension 26620 - top
Febi Spring Suspension Buffers - bottom
VW Rear Shock Top Mount Bolt Nut Kit + Bottom Long Bolt

I still have the 2016 Shock Dust Covers (the concertina one) and the Protective Caps. Maybe I should have changed those as well.

The suspension is still firm. Given the highly variable state of UK roads I wonder if a ideal set up can be found for small light cars.
 
Rickmeister said:
Smaller wheels with more sidewall?
Click to expand...
Yes that will make a small difference, but not much.
Don’t forget that if you were to switch to 15” wheels from 17” wheels, and keep the same overall diameter of the tyre, (as you need to so that the speedo etc. remains correct) your tyre wall will only be ONE inch bigger (because it is the radius that makes the difference, not the diameter)

Different tyre makes will also have varying tyre flexibility (due to the thickness or rigidity of the tyre wall) so it might make a difference in itself.

So don’t expect huge changes by reducing the wheel size.

The biggest problem is that with a light car, when you hit a bump it will have less mass to resist that bump.

I personally prefer appearance when it comes to wheels, to me the right wheels make the car look better) and I don’t mind low profile tyres because the fact that they are slightly firmer (slightlly!) they do give less roll when cornering and a slightly better steering response.

So each to their own. Some people will feel that smaller wheels can make a big difference and I won’t argue with that, but sometimes the difference is due to the change in tyre pressure or the firmness of that manufacture’s tyre walls (and compound)

Steve B
 
Quiet is where I am and I wouldn't describe my A2 TDi suspension as firm either, but that is in comparison to my current experiences, Audi S1 and BMW 435 with adaptive suspension.
The A2 dampers were all renewed in the last 15k miles or so, the originals were somewhat past it. The new dampers improved the primary ride, controlling the body better over large undulations at speed. I have the SE 16" wheel with 195/45 all-season tyres. They, with the dampers, handle the smaller bumps, lumps and potholes rather well (obviously avoiding the larger, crater sized ones wherever possible).

I would humbly suggest that an extra inch of sidewall, that a 15" wheel will allow, is a large extra percentage over that had with a 17" wheel and that will make quite a difference. It also gives the advantage of a slightly lower wheel & tyre weight (all things being equal) which is easier for the damper to control. The 'pepperpots' are surely the go to wheel if anyone wishes to try this route?

Our perceptions are an interesting thing, how noise affects our thoughts around the performance of a suspension is one of them.
 
My black standard tdi with standard tdi front kyb springs isn't crashy but my silver one which sits 10mm lower with unknown springs is at times crashy
 
I've had my A2 for quite a few years and seems like I have spent forever moaning about the crashy hard ride. Then this year I did two things that transofrmed the ride. I put a set of Monroe shocks on and changed to 15" wheels. I know the 205/55/R15's are slightly too big, but it seems to be the sweet spot between comfort and grip.
No more wincing every time I go over a road repair or pothole. I'm just kicking myself that I didn't do this years ago.
 
Didgesteve said:
I've had my A2 for quite a few years and seems like I have spent forever moaning about the crashy hard ride. Then this year I did two things that transofrmed the ride. I put a set of Monroe shocks on and changed to 15" wheels. I know the 205/55/R15's are slightly too big, but it seems to be the sweet spot between comfort and grip.
No more wincing every time I go over a road repair or pothole. I'm just kicking myself that I didn't do this years ago.
Click to expand...
I have already been enjoying the transformation 15" wheels have made to the ride comfort but have now ordered a new set of Monroe rear shocks.
I'll let you know how I find them once they are fitted !
 
Raymie said:
I have already been enjoying the transformation 15" wheels have made to the ride comfort but have now ordered a new set of Monroe rear shocks.
I'll let you know how I find them once they are fitted !
Click to expand...

Which Monroe rear shock absorbers have you ordered?

It's best if they are Audi A2 specific, such as the Monroe 23948.

Monroe are listing another of their rear shock absorbers (Monroe 23890) as being suitable for the Audi A2, but it's a poor choice. This is because it's a Polo MK4 heavy duty (increased ride height) rear shock absorber.

The reason that Monroe are listing this rear shock absorber for the Audi A2 is because the Audi A2 uses longer rear shock absorbers than the Polo MK4 with standard ride height. They shouldn't do this, because a heavy duty rear shock absorber from the Polo MK4 will be too firmly damped for the lightweight Audi A2...hence it's best to use an Audi A2 specific rear shock absorber.

As well as the Monroe 23948, Bilstein B4 19-106120 and Sachs 316991 are also Audi A2 specific rear shock absorbers.

Monroe 23948 rear shock absorbers (Audi A2 specific, ie. no other cars are listed for these rear shock absorbers)
8Z0513025E
8Z0513025J
8Z0513025K
8Z0513025N
 
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carlston said:
Which Monroe rear shock absorbers have you ordered?

It's best if they are Audi A2 specific, such as the Monroe 23948.

Monroe are listing another of their rear shock absorbers (Monroe 23890) as being suitable for the Audi A2, but it's a poor choice. This is because it's a Polo MK4 heavy duty (increased ride height) rear shock absorber.

The reason that Monroe are listing this rear shock absorber for the Audi A2 is because the Audi A2 uses longer rear shock absorbers than the Polo MK4 with standard ride height. They shouldn't do this, because a heavy duty rear shock absorber from the Polo MK4 will be too firmly damped for the lightweight Audi A2...hence it's best to use an Audi A2 specific rear shock absorber.

As well as the Monroe 23948, Bilstein B4 19-106120 and Sachs 316991 are also Audi A2 specific rear shock absorbers.

Monroe 23948 rear shock absorbers (Audi A2 specific, ie. no other cars are listed for these rear shock absorbers)
8Z0513025E
8Z0513025J
8Z0513025K
8Z0513025N
Click to expand...
Phew, well I checked my order and they are the 23948 shocks as recommended.

Thanks for the comfirmation
 
It's the springs which are supposed to set the ride height however on Mr. Black I had previously fitted standard kyb springs all round and it looked too high at the front. Fitted some preloved 2019 1.2 polo petrol rear shocks, (had to modify the lower bolt hole to accept an M12 ) and it made the suspension level (still about 12mm higher than factory thou). Can only think the Polo shocks have a longer internal stroke allowing the springs to lift the car more as externally when extended I thought they were the same length. As for harsh ride I haven't noticed any difference other than not hearing the old worn out bump stops bouncing about when going slow with the window open.
Mr Silver has standard preloved polo shocks from a 2012 I think and again I ain't noticed anything amiss
 
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carlston said:
Which Monroe rear shock absorbers have you ordered?

It's best if they are Audi A2 specific, such as the Monroe 23948.

Monroe are listing another of their rear shock absorbers (Monroe 23890) as being suitable for the Audi A2, but it's a poor choice. This is because it's a Polo MK4 heavy duty (increased ride height) rear shock absorber.

The reason that Monroe are listing this rear shock absorber for the Audi A2 is because the Audi A2 uses longer rear shock absorbers than the Polo MK4 with standard ride height. They shouldn't do this, because a heavy duty rear shock absorber from the Polo MK4 will be too firmly damped for the lightweight Audi A2...hence it's best to use an Audi A2 specific rear shock absorber.

As well as the Monroe 23948, Bilstein B4 19-106120 and Sachs 316991 are also Audi A2 specific rear shock absorbers.

Monroe 23948 rear shock absorbers (Audi A2 specific, ie. no other cars are listed for these rear shock absorbers)
8Z0513025E
8Z0513025J
8Z0513025K
8Z0513025N
Click to expand...
Hi @carlston Have you any further ...o keep that standard. Any thoughts ? Raymie
 
Raymie said:
Hi @carlston Have you any further ...o keep that standard. Any thoughts ? Raymie
Click to expand...

The only Monroe front shock absorbers listed as in stock on autodoc (when searching for Audi A2 1.4TDI 75HP) have an undersize 20mm piston rod.

Good quality front shock absorbers such as Bilstein and Sachs have a piston rod diameter of 22mm, although read on...because Monroe 16451 also has a 22mm piston rod...and if you're a Monroe fan, could be the one to go for.

Monroe may have supplied good quality OE parts for fitment to new cars in the factory, but their aftermarket shock absorbers do seem a bit hit and miss.

Monroe G16309 front shock absorbers (undersize 20mm piston rod...so definitely not recommended)

If you want Monroe front shock absorbers, a better choice would be Monroe 16451 which use the more normal 22mm piston rod diameter.

Notice in the list of OEM part numbers below that the Monroe 16451 front shock absorbers are sold to replace, two of the four Audi A2 front shock absorber OEM part numbers (8Z0413031AC and 8Z0413031P) are listed. The other two Audi A2 front shock absorber OEM part numbers are 8Z0413031AB and 8Z0413031AD.

Monroe 16451 front shock absorbers (22mm piston rod)
5Z0413031AB
5Z0413031C
5Z0413031L
6LL413031
6LL413031A
6Q0413031AN
6Q0413031AP
6Q0413031BH
6Q0413031BJ
6Q0413031BK
6Q0413031BL
6Q0413031BM
6Q0413031BN
6Q0413031BP
6Q0413031BQ
6Q0413031BR
6Q0413031BS
6Q0413031BT
6Q0413031CD
6Q0413031CE
6Q0413031CF
6Q0413031CG
6Q0513031BN
6Q0513031BP
6Q0513031BQ
8Z0413031AC
8Z0413031P

Audi A2 parts catalogue
88Z0413031ABFront shock absorber1GA,G07
88Z0413031ADFront shock absorberG22

Audi A2 parts catalogue
88Z0413031PFront shock absorber (sports suspension)
>> 8Z-1-057 600		1GL
88Z0413031ACFront shock absorber (sports suspension)
8Z-1-057 601 >>		G08

Audi A2 parts catalogue
78Z0513025JRear shock absorber0N1+1GA,G07
78Z0513025NRear shock absorber0N9+1GF,G03
78Z0513025ERear shock absorber (sports suspension)0N1+1GL+G08
78Z0513025MRear shock absorber
>> 8Z-3-030 000
0N1+G22
78Z0513025NRear shock absorber
8Z-3-030 001 >>
0N1+G22
 
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Raymie said:
I have already been enjoying the transformation 15" wheels have made to the ride comfort but have now ordered a new set of Monroe rear shocks.
I'll let you know how I find them
Click to expand...
UPDATE:
The shock replacement has now been completed. It was a satisfying job for a Saturday afternoon !
You can see in the photo below that the condition of the original bump stops were showing signs of wear.

Result :
- The 'squishy' sound has gone .
- Ride has become firmer and is noticeably more fidgety / jiggly at the rear but still acceptable for comfort.

It was a surprise to discover how much firmer the suspension has become with these Monroe OE shocks 23948. The old original (?) shocks filtered the surface better even though they were at the end of their service life. It stands to reason that with new shocks the rear has become more responsive and pops up more quickly e.g. after compression over a speed hump.

Lessons Learned :
I managed with my Halfords socket set and an assortment of old spanners. A 16mm hex socket rather than a 12 sided socket and a 16mm ring spanner would have made the assembly process easier as well as a tool for popping off the 3 plastic wheelarch liner tabs!

Tightening the new top nut on the end of the rod to secure the top mount was the trickiest part with an imperial 5/8ths spanner (closest I could find to 16mm) for the nut and an adjustable on the flats at the end of the rod. In hindsight it would have been better to have used the bench vice jaws to clamp down on the flats rather than using the adjustable.

Oh , it also helps if you remember to refit the dust cover on the top mount before reassembly !
 

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Didgesteve said:
I've had my A2 for quite a few years and seems like I have spent forever moaning about the crashy hard ride. Then this year I did two things that transofrmed the ride. I put a set of Monroe shocks on and changed to 15" wheels. I know the 205/55/R15's are slightly too big, but it seems to be the sweet spot between comfort and grip.
No more wincing every time I go over a road repair or pothole. I'm just kicking myself that I didn't do this years ago.
Click to expand...
Hi,
It's quite satisfying when all that personal investment with time, effort, parts cost and medalling works out with an improvement :D.

Out of interest what spec Monroe shocks did you fit ? Were they the same OE 23948 Spec as recommended by @carlston in thread above ?

Regards,

Raymie
 
audifan said:
Do not overlook the fact that tyre quality and pressures influence the ride and handling. Try changing the tyre pressures to feel the difference.
Click to expand...
Hi Audifan,
Yes, these < 1000kg cars are particularly sensitive to changes with the wheels & tyres.
I'm running 175 /65 /15 Conti Eco 6 Contact tyres.
Influence of tyre pressure on ride comfort understood ; the comments on the influence of the new shocks remain valid only with the same settings before and after.

I'll report back if I notice any further improvement from adjusting the pressure.
 
Raymie said:
It's quite satisfying when all that personal investment with time, effort, parts cost and medalling works out with an improvement.

Out of interest what spec Monroe shocks did you fit ? Were they the same OE 23948 Spec as recommended by @carlston in thread above ?
Click to expand...

My comments about Monroe are on the basis of, "if you are a Monroe fan"...so a Monroe rear shock absorber that is Audi A2 specific (ie. sold to replace only Audi A2 OEM part numbers) should be better suited to the Audi A2 than a Monroe rear shock absorber sold to replace the rear shock absorber from a Polo MK4 with heavy-duty/increased-ride-height rear suspension and a huge list of other similar cars. I'm not a fan of Monroe, because I suspect Monroe's aftermarket shock absorbers are often produced down to a price. After all, the aftermarket shock absorber market is generally quite price sensitive.

Looking at the prices of Audi A2 specific rear shock absorbers on autodoc, the Monroe 23948 rear shock absorbers do appear to be a lot cheaper than the equivalent Bilstein 19-106120 and Sachs 316991...and when I say equivalent, I am referring to the OEM part numbers they are sold to replace and not their quality.

The Monroe 23948 rear shock absorbers use a smaller 11mm piston rod diameter, and I suspect the Bilstein 19-106120 and Sachs 316991 rear shock absorbers have a bigger piston rod diameter of around 12.5mm. The piston bore is also likely to be bigger...it's 25.4mm for the Monroe and I suspect it's around 27mm for the Bilstein and Sachs.

It may be that these much cheaper Monroe rear shock absorbers don't work as well as the Bilstein and Sachs. However, with correctly calibrated internals there shouldn't be a huge difference...but I expect the difference will be there...or Bilstein and Sachs wouldn't go to the extra expense of using more substantial parts such as the bigger piston rod diameter and the bigger bore...or maybe the more substantial parts are to increase longevity...or a bit of both.
 
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