Aluminium Fatigue

Watchdog?

Hi again, not sure if I have a crack or not, but seing that there seem to be quite a few of us with 'the cracks' would it be a good idea to contact BBC Watchdog. They have worked on many other car related issues in the past and have got good results. It may also make Audi listen if they know thwy will get negative publicity on the TV. Just a thought.
 
Don't be silly

Hi again, not sure if I have a crack or not, but seing that there seem to be quite a few of us with 'the cracks' would it be a good idea to contact BBC Watchdog. They have worked on many other car related issues in the past and have got good results. It may also make Audi listen if they know they will get negative publicity on the TV. Just a thought.

Maybe you've misunderstood, but if you read this thread you'll see that Audi UK is not only acknowledging the problem, but fixing it free of charge! There's nothing for Watchdog here, it's a trivial issue. The sort of issues they cover are widespread safety issues like Clio bonnets (flying open at speed) and Vauxhall handbrakes. Tiny cracks that you can hardly see, and cause no problems, don't register on the scale...

Having said that, in the unlikely event of Watchdog seeing a story in this, it's not going to do anything for our cars' values.

Mark
 
Hi again, not sure if I have a crack or not, but seing that there seem to be quite a few of us with 'the cracks' would it be a good idea to contact BBC Watchdog. They have worked on many other car related issues in the past and have got good results. It may also make Audi listen if they know thwy will get negative publicity on the TV. Just a thought.

There's no need to contact Watchdog, or any other consumer show - Audi have taken notice and repairs are being carried out free of charge on affected cars and not just ones under warranty either, but ALL affected A2s.

In this respect, Audi UK have been superb in their handling of the situation.

Cheers,

Mike
 
What a disgraceful bodge this "repair" sounds
it just covers up the crack without fixing it properly
we have all heard the saying "papering over the crack"
this is Audi's version of it...
its all about money in the end. if they can get away with it they will.
how many people have unnecessarily paid for the Anti roll bar ? I am sure that Audi have actually made a profit on the anti roll bar fault.
Thats the way big business operates. The first company that operates in a genuinely ethical manner will clean up in a disillusioned marketplace.
 
The repair is cosmetic because the fault is cosmetic. I know I sold ali to the car makers and the care that these guys take is incredible, still nobodies door has fallen off yet, nor will they. OK it's not nice to find a crack on on of your doors, I have one too, but I'm not going to panic nor should anybody else, many things only come to light after time and that is the case with this problem. Audi have devised a fix that is fit for purpose and as an OEM we should be happy with that after all their reputation is on the line.

The job that Skipton has done in informing Audi UK of the scale of the problem in terms of numbers of cars affected and the excellent response from Audi should reassure everybody who reads this thread. Thanks Mike you did a top class job for everybody.
 
Thanks for the thanks guys - we need to recognise the scale of what Audi are doing too - all for free!

Cheers,

Mike
 
My thoughts on this are in this thread several pages back, so i won't go into the cosmetic or not cosmetic argument. But I'm not grateful that Audi are sorting this, I'm not thanking them for doing it free of charge. I expect nothing less from a Premium car maker.

Sorting a problem whether its cosmetic or not, that has not come about by customer use is not something that I will show gratitude to the maker for…


I appreciate the efforts by those on here and others on forums overseas, but i wont be getting a hard-on about the service from Audi:D
 
Steady on Emm - I know what you're saying, but they ARE doing something about it, whereas they could just as easily ignore the issue, especially as it's on a deleted model.

Cheers,

Mike
 
...
Sorting a problem whether its cosmetic or not,...
Without the forum, no one of you would have ever recognised this. So no one of you can say it is a cosmetic problem, (it is) since no one of you would have seen the unlikely crack. So without our German forum or/and this one here you would have never seen it.

So for me it was only one person, who found this problem and since this one is a member of the Audi A2 club in Germany, this problem became more and more public.
 
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Steady on Emm - I know what you're saying, but they ARE doing something about it, whereas they could just as easily ignore the issue, especially as it's on a deleted model.

Cheers,

Mike

Haha I know, I know, I just hate dealers car makers etc with a passion. Audi are happy to send me a mag in the post and invite me to open days for new models, but i don't see the customer service stretching to sorting problems by inviting me in for a free check on this issue or others.

Erstens i'm not taking credit away from people on another forum or here i clearly recognise the effort put in by people, And personally i don't give a ........whether its cosmetic or not, i'm just sick of it TBH, and not this thread just the thought that at some point i'm gonna have to walk into the dealer and get mine sorted. And evertime it comes up and another person has found it, or another person has been partially refused, another person is waiting for parts, another person has had it sorted, it makes my blood boil...
 
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As an expert on cracks, i will tell you one thing...
they get bigger
so you are better off trying to get them sorted in the early stages before they become really bad. As they propogate then the purchase the surrounding material has on them also increases.
When A2 doors start dropping and wont close properly then will it still be classed as "cosmetic"?
I bought an Aluminium car so it didnt rust and drop to bits and i paid a premium price for that. I also bought and Audi because i believe it is a quality brand unlike some others i could mention (Smart)
Aluminium is well known for work hardening on stress points as well so this is a design flaw that should have been forseeable. We raced a lawnmower with an aluminuim chassis instead of a steel one for lightness and it just broke!That is not to detract from the excellent work done by all on this forum and abroad which is very much appreciated.
 
Whereas Youngs Modulous is well known work considering the fatigue life of notched parts in aluminium and steel has only recently been studied. This work is normally carried out by the R&D departments of big material companies. So, sorry D4v1d, I know that this kind of study was published only just before the A2 was launched and in the way that automotive developemnt cycles go Audi engineers will have been working to a different knowledge. OK, cracks will get bigger, this crack is of the tear variety, it is not through corrosion, by the way do you understand the different corrosion that can happen with aluminium? If this part suffered from stress cracking, as the Americans describe inter granular corrosion then my first post on this subject would have been very different and panic stations would have been well in order. There will be none of this with the A2 as the alloys chosen are the least likely to suffer. The exposed part of the crack in my door is approx 2mm long, its caused by the fact that the door opens a little more than was planned and caused the sheet metal to tear over time through the use of the door. If the sheet metal was a bit thicker it wouldn't have happened, as the tears are so small after so long I am not worried and will take my car to the dealer later. The car itself is nearly 6 years since build. It has been driven 55K miles. I'll be dead before the door drops off, in fact my son will be dead before the door drops off and he is just a teenager. Indeed if the door drops off it will not be because of that crack.

The A2 was an experiment. No manufacturer had produced a high volume vehicle composed mainly of aluminium before to fit in with modern day motoring with all the demands for crash, economy, comfort and longevity legal and otherwise. The demands on materials in the automotive environment is harsh and car manufacturers take great care in material and process selection, sometimes errors are made, often because of the neeed to make compromises for technical reasons. The joining of aluminium is difficult and costly. Choose the wrong alloy and the wrong process and you get AlanB's cycles that fall in bits -2000 series and welding are a fatal mix and I personally warned one UK cycle importer to change from this. Today most mainstream ali cycles use 6000 series alloys and will last a very long time just as I know that my A2 and all of yours will last. Your lawnmower will have failed due to poor design and execution and with respect to you Audi have a bit more resources.

Emm am I grateful to Audi for doing this repair for free? Yes and no. Yes because legally on many vehicles the warranty is out, it's not a paint defect. No because Audi I expect to stand by their product, they have a reputation and I am sure that in the future more mainstream high volume cars will be built predominently from aluminium. Audi will use all of this experience to build better the next time. Part of doing better next time is to take on board every little issue that arises. If this problem needed a huge fix their attitude might be different, but I doubt it, just longer to reach the right decision as the costs are more. Audi are thinking of the future.


So in my humble opinion people should relax, get the fix and continue to enjoy one of the best little cars there is.
 
this crack is of the tear variety, it is not through corrosion, by the way do you understand the different corrosion that can happen with aluminium? If this part suffered from stress cracking, as the Americans describe inter granular corrosion then my first post on this subject would have been very different and panic stations would have been well in order. There will be none of this with the A2 as the alloys chosen are the least likely to suffer. The exposed part of the crack in my door is approx 2mm long, its caused by the fact that the door opens a little more than was planned and caused the sheet metal to tear over time through the use of the door.

I agree entirely. When I first investigated my cracks (stop laughing at the back) I put a finger over one and pushed the door against its stop. You could just feel a little differential flexing across the crack. This told me it was a tear rather than aluminium fatigue.

Evidence that it doesn't progress beyond a few mm is in the poll results. Cracks are present in young and old cars alike, and I've seen no evidence to suggest that older or higher mileage cars have longer cracks. My conclusion is that the tear is self-limiting. The tension that causes it is relieved by the crack itself.

I believe the crack results from opening the door against its stop, and the resulting flex around the door hinge, which you'll feel if you put your finger there. This would explain why a high proportion of cars have cracks, yet others don't.

Cars that have never regularly carried passengers will not have the crack on the passenger side. Cars that are normally parked in confined spaces, where you cannot open doors wide will not have the crack. So if you've had the car from new, garage it at home, and park in a tight car park at work and the shops, my theory suggests you are less likely to have cracks because you rarely open the doors wide.

What does the panel think of this theory? Does it match your experience/usage?
 
if the crack is due to being opened against the stop then why are people reporting it on passenger doors which are seldom used? Remember the door has to support its own weight too.
The importance of a high stress area such as the door hinge alignment marks cannot be understated and we have seen pictures of cracks emanating from this area.
Think of how you cut glass...
you score it to make an area of concentrated stress then apply force it along that score.
 
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if the crack is due to being opened against the stop then why are people reporting it on passenger doors which are seldom used? Remember the door has to support its own weight too.

Can you quote the posts? My hypothesis is nothing more than that. If there's no evidence to support it, let's kick it into the weeds. However, if you open the door and place a finger over the crack as you flex the door you'll appreciate where I'm coming from. It could be a complete coincidence - maybe one of the mechanical engineers here can shed some light...

The importance of a high stress area such as the door hinge alignment marks cannot be understated and we have seen pictures of cracks emanating from this area.

Yes, cracks tend to start at stress concentrators, like notches, etc. Stress concentrators don't cause cracks in themselves. The cause is stress beyond a material's strength, in laymans terms. This stress could be caused by the weight of the doors when closed, when they are supported both front and back, and all round due to the friction of the door seal (least likely), when open, when all the weight is borne by the hinges (more likely) or when open and flexing against the stop, when the weight is borne by the hinges and there's the additional stress of flexing the door skin around the hinges (most likely).

Think of how you cut glass...
you score it to make an area of concentrated stress then apply force it along that score.

Indeed.
 
There is no crack on my passenger door evident yet at least. But that doesn't mean that there won't be one in the future. Our A2 is mainly used for single occupancy or with my young daughter who still sits in the back on her child seat.

It's a design fault, there should be more material at the point where the cracks start from, a bit thicker sheet at that point. Most steel car doors for many years are made from "tailored blanks", these are fabricated multi thickness panels, various bits of sheet metal welded together, then pressed to make a component. Thats why these days a door repair means a whole new door and why just the outer skin on its own cannot be sourced. But the door itself is cheaper to make, is stiffer and has more consistant geometrical tolerances improving overall build quality. The first aluminium tailored blank to make it into production came after the A2 as the technology was not quite ready when the A2 was being developed.

Again, relax its not a serious problem, only from the hassle perspective, but only needs a simple fix.
 
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