Misfire 1.4SE

A2driver

Member
Hello, has anyone similar trouble, when the car is cold it will drive up the road for about a mile and then starts juddering + misfiring and the EML comes on. Once the engine is warm -no trouble but EML limp mode is still on. Some times it misfires and then the problem disappears without the EML displaying.
I had a look under the bonnet and my car (2001) has a coil pack as opposed to the pencil type.
Any thing obvious to check before running diagnostics at the stealer?
 
we had this on our old 1.4 petrol and it was the spark plug leads, very easy to DIY but it could be something else of course
 
Hmmm I was expecting to see individual 'pencil' coils but this is an older pack with four terminals mounted on the end of the camshaft housing. I thought these fired in pairs so it was less likely that individual cylinders would be misfiring:confused:

I have visions of driving down the road with the bonnet off and a spark tester hooked up to each lead in turn until I find the culprit (how does one run a spark tester when the battery is in the boot)
 
Misfire, 1.4 petrol

A random misfire, typically during warm up, has now also hit my car. It doesn’t seem to be the only car having this issue. I’ve looked through the forum regarding this issue but I can’t see that someone has closed the loop so to speak. So again then, who has fixed an issue like this and what was the cause?

At present I have only run the diagnostic check with my pc. It tells me: 16685, Misfire on cylinder 1, intermittent.

That’s all I got. No other unit showing an issue. Would that mean that all other sensors etc are ok?

Is this then a “mechanical” issue? Of course I will replace plugs and wires to them but I have seen others doing this without any improvement. Someone even seems to have taken the head off without finding anything.

For me a “mechanical” issue feels somewhat strange just simply because of the random nature of the problem and that the car seems to be running good on dry days and poor on wet. And only on one occasion have I noticed a very slight misfire while the engine was at normal operating temperature. On that occasion it was raining a lot.

This makes me think more in terms of some electrical issue. But, when coming home and lifting off the bonnet, nothing looks wet in the area where the plugs or injectors are. The draining of bonnet is not obstructed. If filling the small cups with water, they drain well and there are no signs of debris in the rubber mouths.

Is there some other area of the harness that can be exposed to water so it causes an injector no to let fuel in or a plug not to spark? If so, why just for cylinder number 1 and not all?

I´m really puzzled about this.
 
1.4 Petrol Misfire

Hans, I had exactly the same problem as you on my 1.4 petrol for nearly a year. Random misfire on no.1 cylinder. Did it when it was raining and even after I had washed the car. Had it in the garage twice for scans and they couldn't find the fault, but suspected the coil.

I found the fault myself. When I took the bonnet off, I could see the gasket around the engine compartment was not fitted correctly at the top. Looking down the recess for the sparkplugs with a torch, there was about 10mm of black liquid down no.1 sparkplug. Got all the liquid out with tissues and cotton buds and changed all four plugs. That was 2 months and 2,000 miles ago and the car has never missed a beat since.

There is also a black drain pipe at the top of the engine compartment that drains water from the gutter at the bottom of the windscreen. This pipe was loose and allowing water to run down the outside of the pipe. I put a bead of silicon around the pipe connection and it cured that.

When I had assembled everything, I threw 4 big buckets of water onto the windscreen and the engine compartment stayed bone dry.

Hope this helps.
 
Great reply Hank.

My missus A2 (1.4 Sport) is currently in after her Engine Management light came on. She started it and it seemed to be misfiring. Took it the local garage and they called back saying that it was an Ignition Coil and will replace it, costing about £100.

Came someone tell me if the 'Ignition Coil' is the same as the 'Coil Pack'? Also, is there an Audi No. for these Ignition Coils? Are they simply parts which slide over the sparks, or am I missing a point...

Pimp.
 
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Compression check on cylinders will prove if any valve issues, if the motor is running clean ( no blue smoke) there shouldn't be valve guides or pistons issues.
My 1.4 A2 has oil in the spark plug holes of No 1&2 pistons but plugs are all clean and dry when removed. is there a gasket for the rocker cover or is it sealant?
Car stutters at tick-over most of the time, raised revs cures the stutter but somethings not right.
Going to have a go at cleaning earth connection as detailed on 1.6 petrol version.
really getting fed up with VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda 'common faults', hows about a common fault recall?, that would be nice, dream on

Heatpro Pete
 
Had exactly the same problem with mine. Think I've sussed it though. The plastic moulding which sits at the bottom of the windscreen was letting water from the windscreen drain down into the engine compartment rather than be scooped away down the tubes. Underneath the plastic panel there were two tiny holes where the water was dripping out. The right hand hole dripped right on top of the spark plug leads. I've sealed the windscreen with some black gutter sealant. I'll report back in a few days if it's cured my problems. :D


.....indeed it has ! All cured, took about 3 days to dry out fully & settle down though. Been fine ever since.
 
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Had exactly the same problem with mine. Think I've sussed it though. The plastic moulding which sits at the bottom of the windscreen was letting water from the windscreen drain down into the engine compartment rather than be scooped away down the tubes. Underneath the plastic panel there were two tiny holes where the water was dripping out. The right hand hole dripped right on top of the spark plug leads. I've sealed the windscreen with some black gutter sealant. I'll report back in a few days if it's cured my problems. :D


.....indeed it has ! All cured, took about 3 days to dry out fully & settle down though. Been fine ever since.

That's great to hear. Going to have mine in bits tomorrow. It does the same, only in torrential rain.
 
I have the problem too. Random misfire on cold engine.... with engin warning light on. The problem was a bad O2 sensor. I pay 100 euro for new original and now the car is runing like new.
 
Hi! I have misfire on cylinder 2.
Audi A2, Same engine AUA 1.4. Same problem.

Usually it appears as said here: “The car starts fine and then after a few minutes starts to misfire on No.2 cylinder. The EML light will come on, car runs on three cylinders. If the car is started and driven immediately, it drives fine, until you need to wait any length of time at a set of lights and then the misfire/signal cut starts again. Resetting the ECU with the engine running immediately returns the car to four cylinders, until a lengthy tickover causes the problem again.”
Read more: http://www.justanswer.com/audi/85li1-audi-a2-1-4-audi-a2-1-4-aua-main-dealer.html#ixzz3UW7cUmag

Case, which is described above is typical driver's problem description with that mystery misfire on cylinder 2. Some Audi A2 owners have changed camshafts, head, belt, etc. even pistons. Usually without success.

I have to point out, that in most cases “Resetting the ECU with the engine running immediately returns the car to four cylinders, until a lengthy tickover causes the problem again.” is not actually what it seems.

Misfire detecting is done in ECU. Algorithm is about as: if misfire is detected, it should occur repeatedly (how many times is not documented) in 3 minutes. Only then ECU will produce P0302 - cylinder 2 misfire fault code and engine running will go worse. ECU resetting (clearing fault codes) will indeed affect engine running, but it actually reset misfire count at a same time.
It is not clear, how it affect registers in different microchips drivers, but that can affect in the end on ignition driver signal.
But, as I have notice, misfires are not gone after fault codes reset, they are still present. Check misfire counter in VAG-COM diagnostic.
And, that is also true, that some times during testing, if misfires are present, they can disappear after engine restart, and engine will run as smooth as new one. Misfire counter in VAG-COM diagnostic will show 0 or under 10. But after some idling time misfire will start to occur.

So what you should do:


First, test compression for all four cylinders. Should be at least 10. May be up to 14 bar.
No more as 1 (max 1.5 on old one) bar different between any cylinder.
Second, change spark plugs, ignition coil. Change ignition wires.
Test income manifold for leaks, same for exhaust manifold.
Test EGR, test Lambda.
Read fault codes from ECU. Reset, check after test ride again.
Should maintain only one, misfire in cylinder 2.


Problem, which is described above, is quite well known, and few people have came with same symptoms.

I myself, have pointed out actual problem to the ECU.
To do that, you have to use oscilloscope with at least two inputs.
Ignition here use waste spark system, which is not as reliable, as some may think.
Ignition coil on that motor have two actual coils inside. As I remember one for 1-2 cylinder, second for 3—4 cylinder. Ignition signal to that coils came directly from ECU.
That are two thin wires (0.35mm2). First wire is green/white, which came from ECU pin number 102 and on ignition coil goes to pin number 1. It drives cylinder 1 and 2.
Second wire is green/red, which came from ECU pin number 103 and on ignition coil goes to pin number 3. It drives cylinder 3 and 4. Two wires-> two signals.

Signal, which ignition coil produce is square wave, as I remember is about 4.8V. Frequency depends on motor rpm.
You have to connect oscilloscope first input to first ignition coil input signal, and second input to second signal. Then adjust oscilloscope, that both signals received from ECU can be read clearly on oscilloscope screen.
Then you can observe, depending on you oscilloscope type, both signals on the same time, or one signal on a time. Start motor.
Then, you will notice, that signal to ignition coil pin number 3 have always same square waveform, and the length of that weave is always the same (motor idling).
Then observe signal, which goes to ignition coil pin number 1. It drives 1 and 2 cylinder.
You will notice, that when misfire will happen on cylinder 2, on the same time waveform will alter. Signal will fall from it's top 4.8V before it will normally reach end of waveform. It will fall:
1) Directly from rising edge, abruptly towards 0V (bottom), but it will not touch bottom until it will reach end of wavelength. That kind of misfire is a worst one, idling very unstable at the same time.
2) From about half (or more towards the end) of wavelength, abruptly towards 0V (bottom), but it will not touch bottom until it will reach end of wavelength. That kind of misfire is a less impact, idling unstable, but not so badly.

You can observe on the same time misfire counter in VAG-COM diagnostic ( 01 Engine - 08 Measuring Blocks- Group 014 (last block, total misfire count), Group 015 (misfire count cylinder 1, 2, 3), and Group 016, first block (misfire count cylinder 4).

So, main problem is probably with ECU ignition coil driver. There is no freely available datasheet, but possible cause is microchip L9119D – which (probably) control STI bus, k-line, ignition control.

Reference: Audi A2 current flow diagram No 2/1, 1.4 litre fuel injection engine (55kw – Magneti Marelli – 4-cylinder), engine code AUA. From model year 2001.
 
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