Wanted to buy FSI, but last 5 years has been a MIL/EML lamp

J

james.mckenzie

Member
Hi all,

I'm after an FSI but the MOT history has either indicates the following.

  • Engine management light on (advisory)
  • Engine MIL inoperative or indicates a malfunction (8.2.1.2 (h)) (fail) 2023 75886
  • EML on pre 01 July 2003 (advisory) 2022 69429 miles
  • Engine management light on [not mot item until july 2003] (advisory) 2021 63550 miles
  • engine management light illuminated (advisory - 2020)
  • engine management light illuminated (fail -2020) 59614 miles
  • engine malfunction indicator illuminated (advisory 2019)
  • engine malfunction indicator illuminated (fail 2019) 54912 miles
So that's as far back as 2018 through to 2024 with a type of MIL advisory or fail.

If its fuel related (using 95 or less RON instead of premium/E5) what sort of premature failure/failure items am i looking at. If its a intake flap issue what else may have been affected running so long with this EML on?

Should I stay away from it?

Kind regards,

James
 
UPDATE: Seller has mentioned that:

The engine light was caused by the vacuum valve, which has been fixed, by myself. I wouldn't sell a car with an engine light on, if it was on I would mention it in the advert

Is this something to be worried about? If it has only just been fixed now and the car has done c25k miles since first MOT flag, what other issues might there be?

Many thanks,

James
 
You should get it scanned, and post the report here, for advice. How, or whether to, consider a purchase really does depend on the reason/reasons for the EML.
It will, without doubt need work, some money, and knowledgeable help.
Fuel was always a potential risk for the FSI, but since the introduction of E10, with 10% alcohol, that risk it increased significantly, as the FSI engine and exhaust sy is not compatible with the 10% alcohol.
If you really want an FSI, and it requires a certain commitment to do so, the FSI caveats probably apply to almost every one that comes up for sale.
They are a wondrous thing, when in fine fettle. It can be a challenge to get them there though.
Mac.
james.mckenzie said:
UPDATE: Seller has mentioned that:

The engine light was caused by the vacuum valve, which has been fixed, by myself. I wouldn't sell a car with an engine light on, if it was on I would mention it in the advert

Is this something to be worried about? If it has only just been fixed now and the car has done c25k miles since first MOT flag, what other issues might there be?

Many thanks,

James
Click to expand...
If that was the only fault, and it was fixed, and the inlet flaps, and actuator mechanism was fully functional, the EML would not be on.
Unless that is, there was, (is), another cause. Only a scan will tell you what.
Mac.
 
Could you post the ad and any additional info that you’re aware of?

Mac’s advice should be taken as the blueprint for the ideal route for FSi purchase, however if a pre-purchase scan isn’t practical or the seller doesn’t want to facilitate, the car is otherwise good and cheap enough - and you’re good with the spanners AND happy to take a risk, then we may be able to help further guide your thinking on this particular car. However, the fact that the fault has been present as long as it has - plus your indication that the seller didn’t describe it in the ad - would suggest you should be cautious!
 
My personal theory is that the incompatibility of E10, 10% alcohol fuel with the FSI engines is in the exhaust system. The FSI engine construction and materials, seals, hoses, etc, doesn't seem any different than similar VAG engines of the period, all of which are E10 compatible.
The exhaust systems of the FSIs are different. The CO cat is where the downpipe would normally be, and again unusually a NOx cat is also fitted. I think this is where the E10 problem is. I could very well be wrong though.
Mac.
 
dj_efk said:
Could you post the ad and any additional info that you’re aware of?

Mac’s advice should be taken as the blueprint for the ideal route for FSi purchase, however if a pre-purchase scan isn’t practical or the seller doesn’t want to facilitate, the car is otherwise good and cheap enough - and you’re good with the spanners AND happy to take a risk, then we may be able to help further guide your thinking on this particular car. However, the fact that the fault has been present as long as it has - plus your indication that the seller didn’t describe it in the ad - would suggest you should be cautious!
Click to expand...

This was my sisters car, who sadly died, I inherited it and decided to rectify any issues and flip it, Ihave another one to flip too!
One didn't mention the previous EML because one didn't know it had been there, (but only as an advisory it seems,) until I set to work on it! Suspicious huh?
I'M NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF LYING TOPEOPLE.

I know these cars, I still own a 1.4Petrol which I also rescued: It's had clutch, aircon compressor, 4Xcccu! starter motor, door locks repaired, front wheel bearings,struts top mounts and bearings, rear springs, refurbed alloys etc etcSo you get the picture?

The 1.6 is a great car, I may even keepit as it's low mileage, and sell the 1.4.

I have repaired the broken vacuum valve actuator arm which works fine and the flaps operate, but the fault still remained, even after adaptation, I have since diagnosed the fault was returning due to a faulty position sensor, (potentiometer.) Which will be replaced when it arrives on Tuesday or Wednesday.

This is the VCDS reading before clearing the fault.

17439 - Intake Manifold Tuning Valve(N136): Setpoint Not Reached

P1031 - 35-00 - -


“Setpoint not reached”, in otherwords, the potentiometer is faulty, (the voltage reading didn't changewhen running basic settings.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you can wield a spanner there'snothing you can't fix yourself on these cars.

They're an appreciating classic andwill only go up in value

The car drives perfectly and fliesalong with or without the “fault”

Perhaps the OP should just buy a newcar?

Read out after “fault” cleared:


VCDS- Version: Release 1.2

Sunday, 31 March 2024, 15:54:16:16664

Chassis Type: 8Z - Audi A2

Scan:01,02,03,08,15,16,17,18,37,45,46,56,57,75,76,77
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: None

Controller: 036 906 013 F

Component: MED7.5.11 4628

Coding: 00051

Shop #: WSC 02154

VCID: 125778534D77

WAUZZZ8Z33N024558 AUZ7Z0B2277669

No fault code found.

Readiness: 1110 0101
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels:None

Controller: 8Z0 907 379 D

Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0101

Coding: 0007183

Shop #: WSC 02154

VCID: 49E59F3F60A1

No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels:None

Controller: 8Z0 820 043 F

Component: A2-KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT 0514

VCID: 3905EFFF3041

No fault code found.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels:8Z0-959-655.LBL

Controller: 8Z0 959 655 E

Component: Airbag Front+Seite 5005

Coding: 00102

Shop #: WSC 02152

VCID: 4EEFAC2399CF

No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels:8Z0-920-xxx-17.LBL

Controller: 8Z0 920 950 P

Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. VDO D04

Coding: 04442

Shop #: WSC 00001

VCID: 4BE9A5376ADD

WAUZZZ8Z33N024558 AUZ7Z0B2277669

No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 8E0-951-177.LBL

Controller: 8Z0 951 177

Component: Innenraumueberw. D04

Coding: 00001

Shop #: WSC 00000

VCID: 55DD434FBC19

No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels:None

Controller: 8Z0 959 433 AF

Component: Komfortgerát TBD 1210

Coding: 05775

Shop #: WSC 31106

VCID: 8A67E033A527

No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels:8E0-035-1xx-56.LBL

Controller: 8Z0 035 195 A

Component: symphony II NP2 0151

Coding: 00001

Shop #: WSC 00068

VCID: 3A07F0F33547

No fault code found.

End --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
If you take a look at Engine Group 142, in Measuring Blocks, you'll be able to see exactly what the potentiometer is seeing as the flap spindle movement arc. I'd think it's possible that your repair has not, exactly replicated the original, rather than a faulty potentiometer. Just a thought, The ECU is very fussy about the degrees of movement, and position of zero, flaps down, actuator not active.

Group 142,0,Lower Manifold Inlet Flaps Position
Block 142,1,Fraction Flaps,Raised (Actual),Value range:0.0...100.0%
Block 142,2,Fraction Flaps,Raised (Setpoint),Value range: 0.0...100.0%
Block 142,3,Potentiometer, Offset Voltage
Block 142,4,Flaps Adaptation,Status,Value range: ADP run/ADP ok/ERROR\nSetpoint : ADP ok

Your right, the FSI is a lively motor, worth sorting, and keeping.
Mac.
 
Last edited:
31106 said:
This was my sisters car, who sadly died, I inherited it and decided to rectify any issues and flip it, Ihave another one to flip too!
One didn't mention the previous EML because one didn't know it had been there, (but only as an advisory it seems,) until I set to work on it! Suspicious huh?
I'M NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF LYING TOPEOPLE.

I know these cars, I still own a 1.4Petrol which I also rescued: It's had clutch, aircon compressor, 4Xcccu! starter motor, door locks repaired, front wheel bearings,struts top mounts and bearings, rear springs, refurbed alloys etc etcSo you get the picture?

The 1.6 is a great car, I may even keepit as it's low mileage, and sell the 1.4.

I have repaired the broken vacuum valve actuator arm which works fine and the flaps operate, but the fault still remained, even after adaptation, I have since diagnosed the fault was returning due to a faulty position sensor, (potentiometer.) Which will be replaced when it arrives on Tuesday or Wednesday.

This is the VCDS reading before clearing the fault.

17439 - Intake Manifold Tuning Valve(N136): Setpoint Not Reached

P1031 - 35-00 - -


“Setpoint not reached”, in otherwords, the potentiometer is faulty, (the voltage reading didn't changewhen running basic settings.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you can wield a spanner there'snothing you can't fix yourself on these cars.

They're an appreciating classic andwill only go up in value

The car drives perfectly and fliesalong with or without the “fault”

Perhaps the OP should just buy a newcar?

Read out after “fault” cleared:


VCDS- Version: Release 1.2

Sunday, 31 March 2024, 15:54:16:16664

Chassis Type: 8Z - Audi A2

Scan:01,02,03,08,15,16,17,18,37,45,46,56,57,75,76,77
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: None

Controller: 036 906 013 F

Component: MED7.5.11 4628

Coding: 00051

Shop #: WSC 02154

VCID: 125778534D77

WAUZZZ8Z33N024558 AUZ7Z0B2277669

No fault code found.

Readiness: 1110 0101
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels:None

Controller: 8Z0 907 379 D

Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0101

Coding: 0007183

Shop #: WSC 02154

VCID: 49E59F3F60A1

No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels:None

Controller: 8Z0 820 043 F

Component: A2-KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT 0514

VCID: 3905EFFF3041

No fault code found.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels:8Z0-959-655.LBL

Controller: 8Z0 959 655 E

Component: Airbag Front+Seite 5005

Coding: 00102

Shop #: WSC 02152

VCID: 4EEFAC2399CF

No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels:8Z0-920-xxx-17.LBL

Controller: 8Z0 920 950 P

Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. VDO D04

Coding: 04442

Shop #: WSC 00001

VCID: 4BE9A5376ADD

WAUZZZ8Z33N024558 AUZ7Z0B2277669

No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 8E0-951-177.LBL

Controller: 8Z0 951 177

Component: Innenraumueberw. D04

Coding: 00001

Shop #: WSC 00000

VCID: 55DD434FBC19

No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels:None

Controller: 8Z0 959 433 AF

Component: Komfortgerát TBD 1210

Coding: 05775

Shop #: WSC 31106

VCID: 8A67E033A527

No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels:8E0-035-1xx-56.LBL

Controller: 8Z0 035 195 A

Component: symphony II NP2 0151

Coding: 00001

Shop #: WSC 00068

VCID: 3A07F0F33547

No fault code found.

End --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...
Unlikely to be the potentiometer, I think.
Mac.
 
PlasticMac said:
If you take a look at Engine Group 142, in Measuring Blocks, you'll be able to see exactly what the potentiometer is seeing as the flap spindle movement arc. I'd think it's possible that your repair has not, exactly replicated the original, rather than a faulty potentiometer. Just a thought, The ECU is very fussy about the degrees of movement, and position of zero, flaps down, actuator not active.

Group 142,0,Lower Manifold Inlet Flaps Position
Block 142,1,Fraction Flaps,Raised (Actual),Value range:0.0...100.0%
Block 142,2,Fraction Flaps,Raised (Setpoint),Value range: 0.0...100.0%
Block 142,3,Potentiometer, Offset Voltage
Block 142,4,Flaps Adaptation,Status,Value range: ADP run/ADP ok/ERROR\nSetpoint : ADP ok

Your right, the FSI is a lively motor, worth sorting, and keeping.
Mac.
Click to expand...
Here's a section of a Group 142 log from a running FSI engine.
Showing the flap angle, mostly 100%, flaps raised, actuator active, inlet cross section reduced, but there's a 0% in there, flaps lowered, actuator inactive.
So your looking for that swing between 0% and 100%. To check, you can connect a tube direct to the actuator, and suck on it, that will move the flaps to the full extent.
Mac.

Group C: 142
Runner Flap B1 Runner Flap B1 Runner Flap B1 Runner Flap B1
TIME Position (act.) Position (spec.) Position Offset Adaptation
STAMP % % V
0.46 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
1.66 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
2.86 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
4.06 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
5.26 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
6.46 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
7.66 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
8.85 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
10.06 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
11.26 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
12.46 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
13.65 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
14.85 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
16.05 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
17.16 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
18.35 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
19.55 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
20.75 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
21.95 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
23.15 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
24.35 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
25.46 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
26.65 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
27.85 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
29.04 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
30.25 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
31.44 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
32.65 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
33.86 0 0 2.38 ADP. O.K.
35.05 0 0 2.38 ADP. O.K.
36.25 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
37.45 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
38.64 100 100 2.38 ADP. O.K.
 
A simple rule to follow:" When in doubt leave it out". Your car does sound as though it has possibility though, so good luck.

The above advice is massively knowledgable on matters FSi and really does know of what he speaks.
 
Last edited:
simon martyn said:
A simple rule to follow:" When in doubt leave it out". Your car does sound as though it has possibility though, so good luck.

The above advice is massively knowledgable on matters FSi and realle does know of what he speaks.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I should have been a politician, with such confidence inspiring rhetoric, I'd be PM for sure.
I've also been known to be mistaken, another prerequisite for a politician!
Mac
 
31106 said:
...........
I have repaired the broken vacuum valve actuator arm which works fine and the flaps operate, but the fault still remained, even after adaptation, I have since diagnosed the fault was returning due to a faulty position sensor, (potentiometer.) Which will be replaced when it arrives on Tuesday or Wednesday.
........
Click to expand...
Good Afternoon,

I am curious about how you know the flaps operate, what evidence? and do they open and close to their normal extent?

Andy
 
31106 said:
This was my sisters car, who sadly died, I inherited it and decided to rectify any issues and flip it, Ihave another one to flip too!
One didn't mention the previous EML because one didn't know it had been there, (but only as an advisory it seems,) until I set to work on it! Suspicious huh?
I'M NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF LYING TOPEOPLE.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry to hear about your sis.

You do not need to use caps lock. The OP posted a question and it has been answered using the information given.

The one piece of advice I left out giving him was to buy from someone within the club - especially if he is in the market for a FSi - as it’s extremely unlikely that anyone here would knowingly mislead him when selling him a car.

Good luck with your sale and I wish you well.
 
Last edited:
Thanks all for your help here. The ad has been removed or car sold or he/she has decided to keep it as inidcated.

I was simply enquiring about said car and found the response quite sharp, like the seller didn't want any questions. I felt as if potential buyers are not allowed to ask questions....so I think ill leave this car and continue my search.

Great advice to pursue cars advertised on here. I've learned my lesson. Ive been needing another A2 in my life for sometime. We had a Tdi90 some years ago and loved it. Tony (A2cars) looked after it. RIP

Many thanks,

James
 
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