AUDI A2 1.6 FSI 2002 Throttle Body part no 036133062D seems to be discontinued

I think you should review your faith in the mechanic. Seems the misfire was down to the coil packs, a well known failure, certainly on VAG cars of the period, but my impression is that he has changed almost everything but.
Mac
 
PlasticMac said:
I think you should review your faith in the mechanic. Seems the misfire was down to the coil packs, a well known failure, certainly on VAG cars of the period, but my impression is that he has changed almost everything but.
Mac
Click to expand...
Hi PlasticMac, I think we have had discussions recently in relation to my own problem with my FSI, it all started off with what looks like to be really dirty fuel causing me serious misfire issues. Having checked again for fault codes on VCDS and never got any codes with my issues made me think I had a mechanical fault(s) and having changed both my in tank delivery unit and HPFP it left me with my injectors. I purchased a secondhand set off Andy Clayton and sent them to ASNU in Herts who did an excellent job in cleaning them and refurbishing them. I can now say that having just fitted them this weekend just past I can confirm that it has improved my car immensely but for one small problem, ASNU told me to 'Reset my fuel trims'. Would I be correct in saying this is the same as Quantity Learning and if so, would you be able to direct me in how to do this as I can't seem to find it on VCDS. See attached photos from my laptop showing my options both for adaption and basic settings and I would really appreciate the help if you can. Thank you.
 

Attachments

  • VCDS.jpeg
    VCDS.jpeg
    1.1 MB · Views: 16
  • VCDS.1.jpeg
    VCDS.1.jpeg
    1.2 MB · Views: 15
999fire said:
Hi PlasticMac, I think we have had discussions recently in relation to my own problem with my FSI, it all started off with what looks like to be really dirty fuel causing me serious misfire issues. Having checked again for fault codes on VCDS and never got any codes with my issues made me think I had a mechanical fault(s) and having changed both my in tank delivery unit and HPFP it left me with my injectors. I purchased a secondhand set off Andy Clayton and sent them to ASNU in Herts who did an excellent job in cleaning them and refurbishing them. I can now say that having just fitted them this weekend just past I can confirm that it has improved my car immensely but for one small problem, ASNU told me to 'Reset my fuel trims'. Would I be correct in saying this is the same as Quantity Learning and if so, would you be able to direct me in how to do this as I can't seem to find it on VCDS. See attached photos from my laptop showing my options both for adaption and basic settings and I would really appreciate the help if you can. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Clearing the engine codes resets the lambda adjustment values afaik
 
Robin_Cox said:
I concur with the posts above.

Couple of things worth noting. Firstly, the A2 (any A2, not just the FSi)- is remarkably sensitive to battery voltage levels. If it was possible to search A2oc for new member initial posts in October-December in the past decade asking for advice about "all the warning lights have come on and VCDS scan says that every ECU has fault messages", you would almost certainly find that somewhere further down the thread the original poster has been given advice to either replace a 20-year old factory-fit VARTA battery, or to clean the starter motor earth point.

Sometimes the seasonal drop (or a sudden unseasonal drop) in temperatures can cause a bucket load of lights to come on simply because cranking the motor with a cold / gradually-failing battery can make various ECUs unhappy as global voltage drops. Sometimes corrosion to the starter earth means that even a brand new high quality full capacity battery simply doesn't have enough juice to start the engine (particularly Tdis owing to the compression that the starter is trying to overcome).

Another unexpected source of lots of warning lights coming on that impact on engine running and all sorts of things is a brake light switch that is failing and creating electronic noise on the circuit. This also causes lots of lights to come on and often correlates with the engine going into some kind of limp home mode (at least with my other half's 1.4i). Replace the brake light switch, eliminate a lot of issues, seems to be the consensus on this one.

So - while the throttle body almost certainly needed a clean, and quite possibly a solenoid valve in the EVAP system (I needed to replace this in my A6 that eliminated engine light coming on when you accelerated out of a junction - there was a recorded error for that sensor, so I bought one and replaced it, instant fix).
Click to expand...
Reading through this thread at 5 am wide awake what jumped out at me was when it was mentioned that ‘every single warning light etc came on’. Datsun Drew on here had the same issue with ( admittedly a tdi) but after spending hours changing various bits and pieces it was a dodgy diode pack on the alternator causing sudden massive voltage drops which in turn causes utter carnage with the electrical system. Bear in mind the power steering pump takes up a lot of juice I would also try an alternator. Someone on here may have a good secondhand one you can try first, I think a 1400 petrol one would also do the job. Just my thoughts.
 
PlasticMac said:
Lots of parts have been changed, at significant expense, sometimes based on a DTC, and sometimes on. "mechanic's intuition" and without fixing the problem.
There is a lack, (a total absence even), of measurements and diagnostic data.
A good example is the replacement of the HPFP, and the electric lift pump. The efficiency of both of these can be checked by logging measuring blocks, during a varied drive, let's say 15 - 20 minutes, plus analysis. This will give a result with a high degree of certainty. But no, let's spend hours of costly labour, and change both.
To diagnose most running engine faults on an FSI, the only effective way is to log relavant data, and analyse it.
As far as I can understand, at no time had this been considered.
Now, it seems changing the HPFP is being considered again. For goodness sake, check it out first.
I don't doubt your mechanic's skills and experience, but he needs to use "virtual" tools, as well as the chrome vanadium ones.
Log Groups 005, (to monitor engine speed and load), 140, (to check fuel rail pressure), and 142, (to check the inlet manifold flaps). No gaurentees, but it'll rule a few things in, or out, which would be progress, in my opinion anyway.
You may need to get yourself a working, registered copy of VCDS Lite, and a KKL lead. Any old Windows laptop, lead at a tenner, and $99 to register Lite is all that is required. The lot would cost less than the labour to change the pump, I suspect.
Mac.
PS: No offence intended to anyone.
Click to expand...
Just excellent gold plated advice here from Mac which should be heeded.
 
999fire said:
Hi PlasticMac, I think we have had discussions recently in relation to my own problem with my FSI, it all started off with what looks like to be really dirty fuel causing me serious misfire issues. Having checked again for fault codes on VCDS and never got any codes with my issues made me think I had a mechanical fault(s) and having changed both my in tank delivery unit and HPFP it left me with my injectors. I purchased a secondhand set off Andy Clayton and sent them to ASNU in Herts who did an excellent job in cleaning them and refurbishing them. I can now say that having just fitted them this weekend just past I can confirm that it has improved my car immensely but for one small problem, ASNU told me to 'Reset my fuel trims'. Would I be correct in saying this is the same as Quantity Learning and if so, would you be able to direct me in how to do this as I can't seem to find it on VCDS. See attached photos from my laptop showing my options both for adaption and basic settings and I would really appreciate the help if you can. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Apologies for not responding to your PM.
I don't have any knowledge of post injector change settings, but this may help:
Group 110, "Basic Setting - Injection - Injection Time" looks to be the most relevant. The Pre Cat Lambda looks after Fuel Trim.
You can see what going on by logging Group 107, Lambda Control:
Block 001,Engine Speed,(G28)
Block 002,Lambda Control,Bank 1,Value range: -25.0...+25.0 %
Block 004,Result,,Value range: Test OFF/Test ON/Syst. ok/Syst. Not ok\nSetpoint: Syst. ok
Result should be Syst, ok.

To set Injection Time, (Fuel Trim), which is what the ECU uses the Lambda data for, here's the information I have:

Engine Controller, 01 > Basic Settings > Group 110.
Prerequisites: Ignition ON, Engine ON, System voltage at least 11.0 V.

[Select]
[01 - Engine]
[Basic Settings - 04]
Group 110
[Go!]
Activate the Basic Setting.
Engine Idling > Field 4 = "Test ON"
Wait Until Field 4 Displays "Syst. ok"

If anyone has done this, perhaps they can confirm this.
Mac.
Edit: Make absolutely sure that you have the latest BAD Engine lbl file in your copy of VCDS.
If yours is a full version then I believe the latest update includes it. If your using Lite then download the A2OC lbl file.
Mac.
 
Last edited:
999fire said:
Do you mean clearing the engine fault codes on VCDS? If so, I don't have any fault codes to clear as I didn't have any electrical faults at all, it was mechanical problems for me.
Click to expand...
Will it let you click the clear codes button under the ECM on VCDS anyway?
As the engine runs it changes the lambda adaption values which it uses to compensate for the engine running lean or rich, for example if fuelling problems are causing the engine to run lean then the lambda monitors the exhaust oxygen to detect this and then adjusts the lambda values to compensate appropriately by opening the injectors for longer to add more fuel.
When the engine codes are cleared then these adaption values are reset to zero, but unless the root cause of the problem has been solved, then all this will do is make the engine temporarily run at incorrect ratios until the lambda is again adjusted to compensate.


My understanding is that if your injectors were clogged, and this was restricting the fuel getting into the cylinders, then the engine would presumably adjust the lambda adj values to open the injectors for longer and allow more fuel in to compensate and stop it running lean.
If the injectors are now clean and operating at the correct flow, then the lambda compensation will no longer be needed hence maybe the reason for resetting it.
 
Last edited:
@999fire you don’t need to do this, it will correct itself over time, that is the point of the ECU feature.

If you want it to update them straight away, then go to Basic settings group 000 and save it. Once you’ve done, turn the ignition off for a minute then back on again.

You’ll then need to do all of the “learning” available, so throttle flap, EGR, etc. Mac can probably advise you on that bit

That will mean the car won’t run very well to start with, but will quickly improve as it relearns the fuel trims
 
a-zwo said:
@999fire you don’t need to do this, it will correct itself over time, that is the point of the ECU feature.

If you want it to update them straight away, then go to Basic settings group 000 and save it. Once you’ve done, turn the ignition off for a minute then back on again.

You’ll then need to do all of the “learning” available, so throttle flap, EGR, etc. Mac can probably advise you on that bit

That will mean the car won’t run very well to start with, but will quickly improve as it relearns the fuel trims
Click to expand...
If you want to be convinced, I'd log Group 107, over a varied drive, and if you get "Syst. ok" then you are fine, and know you are. Best not to look for problems that aren't there. Anything serious with injection, mixture, lambda etc, you'll get the EML to let you know, without looking.
Mac.
 
PlasticMac said:
I think you should review your faith in the mechanic. Seems the misfire was down to the coil packs, a well known failure, certainly on VAG cars of the period, but my impression is that he has changed almost everything but.
Mac
Click to expand...
Just to update this thread, the FSI that this thread refers to, owned by @PhilipS has now found a new home. Hopefully, the new custodians will join A2OC, and the tale will have a happy ending, or new beginning!
Mac.
 
PlasticMac said:
If you want to be convinced, I'd log Group 107, over a varied drive, and if you get "Syst. ok" then you are fine, and know you are. Best not to look for problems that aren't there. Anything serious with injection, mixture, lambda etc, you'll get the EML to let you know, without looking.
Mac.
Click to expand...
I think the advice from the injector cleaning company, to reset "fuel trim" is general, advice, not brand or model specific.
Would do no harm, but not always required.
Mac
 
PlasticMac said:
I think the advice from the injector cleaning company, to reset "fuel trim" is general, advice, not brand or model specific.
Would do no harm, but not always required.
Mac
Click to expand...
Thanks Mac and everyone else too. My car is certainly running better but still feels like it is off a cylinder and still with no fault codes found I can only think that if I so reset my fuel trims as advised then hopefully, 🤞, it will sort mine out once and for all. I have taken all on board form everyone and will try these procedures as soon as and I will you all know how I get on. The reason I can't get to do it now is I have other problems on other vehicles to sort out now including my wife's car.
 
PlasticMac said:
I think the advice from the injector cleaning company, to reset "fuel trim" is general, advice, not brand or model specific.
Would do no harm, but not always required.
Mac
Click to expand...
Mac, the reason why they told me to reset my fuel trims was because my ECU will still think it is using the old injectors and will compensate this my over/under fuelling which wass costing me quite a bit as I was only averaging around 50 miles per £20 fuel (E5 of course).
 
Indi said:
Will it let you click the clear codes button under the ECM on VCDS anyway?
As the engine runs it changes the lambda adaption values which it uses to compensate for the engine running lean or rich, for example if fuelling problems are causing the engine to run lean then the lambda monitors the exhaust oxygen to detect this and then adjusts the lambda values to compensate appropriately by opening the injectors for longer to add more fuel.
When the engine codes are cleared then these adaption values are reset to zero, but unless the root cause of the problem has been solved, then all this will do is make the engine temporarily run at incorrect ratios until the lambda is again adjusted to compensate.


My understanding is that if your injectors were clogged, and this was restricting the fuel getting into the cylinders, then the engine would presumably adjust the lambda adj values to open the injectors for longer and allow more fuel in to compensate and stop it running lean.
If the injectors are now clean and operating at the correct flow, then the lambda compensation will no longer be needed hence maybe the reason for resetting it.
Click to expand...
Hi Indi, my injectors must be clogged or the internal filters are breaking down, going to get them sent asway to ASNU to get checked out as well. I have no fault codes at all so nothing is available to clear on VCDS. As I have fitted a new set of refurbished injectors the supplying company has advised to reset the fuel trims as my ECU will still think they're the old ones and compensate accordingly, fitting the new ones has certainly made a big difference but car still feels like it is off a cylinder.
 
999fire said:
Mac, the reason why they told me to reset my fuel trims was because my ECU will still think it is using the old injectors and will compensate this my over/under fuelling which wass costing me quite a bit as I was only averaging around 50 miles per £20 fuel (E5 of course).
Click to expand...
I wouldn't have thought there was that much difference between a set of injectors, before and after cleaning. I get low to mid forties mpg on mine.
The ECU will use the pre cat lambda to adjust fuelling, as others have said, so if, as seems likely, you're over fuelling, then that process is suspect.
Group 107 might give you a clue.
I'll have a think, and comment more in a day or so.
Mac.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top