Chat Audi A2 1.6 FSI - And I'm the new owner!

Birchall said:
Hi Tom,

It is more likely to have been done to make the car easier / more valuable to sell.

...

Steve B
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This was a cluster I bought online, so I have no idea of the history of the car from which it came... though I can assume it was broken for parts given that I bought its cluster. As far as I'm aware, if a particular model of car has an engine management light, it must be working in order for the car to pass an MOT. That doesn't mean the car fails its MOT if the light is on... but the light itself must work. I'm not sure of the precise letter of the law and I can't imagine it's something that MOT testers are particularly picky about, but the rule exists to stop people from simply de-soldering the warning lights.
If your FSI was seemingly running OK but you got fed up of your engine management light constantly being on, the simple solution would be to remove the light. But this method creates a problem; turn the key in the ignition of any A2, and you'll see the engine management light do a self-test before you start the engine. This is why the engine management light of this particular cluster was paralleled from the EPC light, as that'd cause the LED to illuminate during the self-test and then extinguish.
If you wanted to pull the wool over someone's eyes when selling the car, you'd probably just de-solder the LED. I've seen this on loads of clusters (always FSIs!), but adding the parallel to the EPC light is a much more sophisticated means of deception, which is why I suspect it was done with MOT testers in mind.

Cheers,

Tom

Apologies for the thread swerve, by the way.
 
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The warning lights that are included in the test are as follows
The EML is not one of those listed because it does not have any safety impact on the car

If you've got one of these warning lights then it must now work correctly:

  • Electronic parking brake
  • Electronic stability control
  • Headlight main beam warning light
  • Electronic power steering warning light
  • Brake fluid level warning light
  • Seat belt pre-tensioner warning light


That is according to the AA

The other official MOT test documents indicate the same.

Other confirmations such as the below show more detail and confirm that the EML is not a fail, whether it is working or not.

Headlamp levelling and cleaning devices when fitted for HID or LED headlamps
Main beam
Battery (including batteries for electric or hybrid vehicles)
Electrical wiring and connectors
Trailer electrical socket security and damage
Operation of 13-pin trailer electrical sockets using an approved trailer socket tester
Operation of the steering lock (where fitted) including that malfunction warning is not displayed for an electronic steering lock
Electronic power steering malfunction warning indicating a fault
Electronic parking brake control and malfunction indicator lamp
Electronic Stability Control (ESC) components, including the switch (if fitted) and malfunction warning
Brake fluid warning lamp illuminated or inoperative
Tyre Pressure Monitoring Systems (TPMS)
SRS components including airbags, seat belt pre-tensioners, seat belt load limiters and SRS malfunction warning lamp
Engine mountings
Speedometer
Indirect vision devices (where they replace obligatory mirrors)

By the way reading the MOT manual from the MOT web site states the following about HID headlights (As I have said they DON'T have to have self levelling and headlamp washers, as many of those with HID lights already know)

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system. Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given. Headlamp washers may work in conjunction with the windscreen washers (when the dipped beam headlamps are switched on) or by a separate switch.

Steve B
 
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Birchall said:
The warning lights that are included in the test are as follows
The EML is not one of those listed because it does not have any safety impact on the car

If you've got one of these warning lights then it must now work correctly:

  • Electronic parking brake
  • Electronic stability control
  • Headlight main beam warning light
  • Electronic power steering warning light
  • Brake fluid level warning light
  • Seat belt pre-tensioner warning light


That is according to the AA

The other official MOT test documents indicate the same.

Steve B
Click to expand...

A good bit of digging, Steve. So, it seems the engine management light is not included in the MOT at all. As such, whoever owned the car with that cluster went to great length to devise a method of achieving something that wasn't strictly necessary. :p

Tom
 
All well and good, but how do they test all these lights, e.g. are they supposed to siphon brake fluid is out of the header tank and check the light comes on? Electronic stability with no test dirive? Good intentions but really?

Andy
 
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timmus said:
A good bit of digging, Steve. So, it seems the engine management light is not included in the MOT at all. As such, whoever owned the car with that cluster went to great length to devise a method of achieving something that wasn't strictly necessary. :p

Tom
Click to expand...

I think that you will find that it is far easier to sell a car if the EML is not on, so I am guessing that this would be the reason for some low life to do that, not just for the MOT.

I have owned and driven a couple of FSIs that drove well but had the EML on, so some unscrupulous seller might disable it for that reason.

Steve B
 
Kleynie said:
The engine light could be linked to emissions, which is an MOT fail. (Not safety)
Click to expand...

Yes, but if the emission test passes, the EML light still has nothing to do with the test, it is the emission test that counts.

An EML on is merely an advisory. I have seen LOTS of MOTs with the EML as an advisory.

Basically the light staying on or even not working is not a fail.

There are some causes of an EML light being on that wouldn't necessarily affect emissions, after all.

Steve B
 
Andrew said:
All well and good, but how do they test all these lights, e.g. are they supposed to siphon brake fluid is out of the header tank and check the light comes on? Electronic stability with no test dirive? Good intentions but really?

Andy
Click to expand...

They don't test the triggers for the lights, they are not even allowed to, because that would interfere with the things like brake fluid etc..

They just need to check that the warning lights up when the ignition is switched on and then go off after a few seconds. (The safety ones listed above, that is)

Steve B
 
Thanks Steve, I get it now. The test is to check that a warning led will simply illuminate, but the test does not include the functionality of the warning subsystem that would illuminate it if need be.

Cheers - Andy
 
Birchall said:
I think that you will find that it is far easier to sell a car if the EML is not on, so I am guessing that this would be the reason for some low life to do that, not just for the MOT.

I have owned and driven a couple of FSIs that drove well but had the EML on, so some unscrupulous seller might disable it for that reason.

Steve B
Click to expand...

Unquestionably true where the removal of the LED is concerned. I've seen that loads of times and imagine it's the method of the unscrupulous seller. But going the extra mile and paralleling off the EPC light is quite clever.

Cheers,

Tom
 
timmus said:
Unquestionably true where the removal of the LED is concerned. I've seen that loads of times and imagine it's the method of the unscrupulous seller. But going the extra mile and paralleling off the EPC light is quite clever.

Cheers,

Tom
Click to expand...


Yes,

I often thought that, if all of the criminals used their skills for good rather than bad, the world would be an amazing place.

That is a classic example of someone clever enough to be quite creative but stupid/horrible enough to be conning other people.

Steve B
 
Somebody covered my LED up with a black balloon! A fuel injector, EGR pipe, lower manifold, coil packs, cross pipe, Nox sensor, oil level sensor, clutch, roll bar, strut top bearings and cambelts later, we're in business and its working beautifully but it has cost me nearly 3k in two years. As one who has come out of it with a black FSI sport with working OSS and red leather bench seats, I'm feeling quite chuffed but the continuous expense has deprived us of the opportunity to do a lot of other stuff in a way that a 54 plate Corsa wouldn't have done!


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Wow! Hats off to you for persevering with such a project. I’m wanting to make sure this motor is running well and looked after but I don’t have the time or money to do all that. So I might have to live with her imperfections.


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Sadly the diagnostics were not good. Inlet manifold errors all over the shop. Misfires. When I got to the garage I couldn’t get her to start even. One very unwell FSI. It’s been left with the dealer who is going to have a look at it tomorrow and see for himself. I’m hoping that it’s not going to be a problem to either get my money back or him fixing it.

If I get my money back I will be looking for another A2. Probably a 1.4 if they are more reliable.


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thestable said:
Sadly the diagnostics were not good. Inlet manifold errors all over the shop. Misfires. When I got to the garage I couldn’t get her to start even. One very unwell FSI. It’s been left with the dealer who is going to have a look at it tomorrow and see for himself. I’m hoping that it’s not going to be a problem to either get my money back or him fixing it.

If I get my money back I will be looking for another A2. Probably a 1.4 if they are more reliable.


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Click to expand...

More reliable, undoubtably ...

Good luck in your request quest :)
 
Sadly the car has gone back to the owner. Returning the log book to him in exchange for a refund this weekend. A real shame as it’s wasted weeks trying to cheaply repair what you folks already new what was wrong. And how much it would cost.

So I guess I’ll be looking for a nice tidy 1.4 petrol A2 or a 1.6 fsi without the engine problem...if there is such a thing anymore.

Ideally what I’m looking for would have a OSS and aircon and any other nice toys. I don’t want a project as such. Just something that I can bring up to scratch and keep running. If anyone hears of anything please let me know. Not wanting to spend silly money either.

Sheesh. I knew I should have taken my dad along when I rushed to look at this car.


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thestable said:
.

Sheesh. I knew I should have taken my dad along when I rushed to look at this car.


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Click to expand...

even an expert would not have spotted the disabled EML warning without doing a scan.

Glad to hear that that you have been given a refund though, sometimes things like this can drag on for ages.

You appear to only be interested in petrol versions?

If reliability is is important then a diesel may suit you better (I can understand why sone people are concerned about diesels but their advantages often outweigh their disadvantages)

steve B
 
Birchall said:
even an expert would not have spotted the disabled EML warning without doing a scan.

Glad to hear that that you have been given a refund though, sometimes things like this can drag on for ages.

You appear to only be interested in petrol versions?

If reliability is is important then a diesel may suit you better (I can understand why sone people are concerned about diesels but their advantages often outweigh their disadvantages)

steve B
Click to expand...

I shall look in to diesels as a second but I’m not sure what it’s going to be like for them I. The future especially living in central London.

I don’t know too much about the costs and charges either as I’ve never owned a diesel.


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